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Sydney university offer male only scholarship feminists are upset Watch

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    (Original post by Shadow Hunters)
    Ah yes, of course a lad on TSR knows better than the examination authorities who added these statistics into their course structures.
    I mean obviously you know better than the professionals who conducted these studies and the SQA as well as other examination authorities. Would recommend you contact them to tell them the truth, sure they'll listen.

    In other words, it's pretty much accepted by everyone there is a gender pay gap.
    I like how she is choosing which comments to reply to.
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    (Original post by CookieButter)
    1. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic being discussed in this thread.

    2. Time and time again people have explained to you that this gap exists as a result of difference in choices between the two genders (different choices in professions and number of hours worked as apposed to discrimination) and you failed to prove otherwise. I don't think you have the skills necessary to appreciate or understand what is being said here. The problem with most feminists like you is that they are extremely ill equipped to understand the basics in life. People with qualifications in worthless degrees, that focus on attracting failures in life and telling them they have failed not because of their ineptitude but because of dsicmrination and encouraging them to blame their faults on the opposite gender. Therefore, I do no doubt for a moment that most of what I am going to write in this comment is going to fly right over your head.

    3. The link you have provided is a great example of flawed statistics, deception and manipulation of gullible primitive minds.

    Firstly, it is based on Office for National Statistics data. Upon inspecting the data, i found it clearly stating that this data does not take into account the profession or the grade of the employees but rather takes all women and all men and compares their hourly median earnings to each other, not even the average but the median.

    "It should be noted that the figures do not show differences in rates of pay for comparable jobs,"

    (https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...ay-differences)

    So basically, what they have done here is take everyone from all professions and compare their median hourly rate to each other. Men choose different jobs to women. This study does not take this factor into account. This data does not take the pay grade of individuals into account. It just compares everyone to everyone else. It is like me comparing a doctors salary to a street sweep's salary and saying 'hey, the doctor's earning more this is unfair'. In statistics you cannot compare different groups within a population without controlling for their differences. This is all too much for you. I am willing to bet my life on it but this comment is not just for you but for anyone else that might want to entertain it.

    Additionally, they have also excluded a large proportion of the male population from this data. They have excluded men who work over time from the study. This is laughably flawed statistics. it is selectively bias and not representative of the population. It is unreliable and not valid.

    Now to the most important part of this comment. The data does not show causation!!!!!!! it does not prove that the gap is caused by discrimination. Using unreliable, invalid methods it shows that there is a gap. That is all it does. It does not show that this gap is caused by discrimination...In research statistics, the first thing that you are taught is that correlation does not prove causation. A stastical correlation (pay gap) between two variables (pay and gender in this study) does not imply that one causes the other. So this should be called a pay gap not a gender gap as the data does not prove that the gap is caused by gender.

    I have a study conducted by the government in 2015 that aimed to try and prove that the pay gap is caused by discrimination and wound up proving that it is not....A seminal piece of work that was distorted by the media and went underreported...I might make a thread about it soon.
    Are you implying that I don't have the intellect or mental capacity to understand what you're saying. How arrogant can you get? And you choose now to say this is completely off topic as the post was about bursaries?

    Quite a lot of men choose criminal justice degrees. Don't know if it was you who said lots of women choose that as a degree therefore are going to earn less.
    http://university.which.co.uk/univer...ears-9000-mm29

    In some ways it is up to choice of profession which I get but there is evidence that within specific professions there is still a pay gap between women and men.
    Quite outdated but it's unlikely to have changed much.
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ry-doctors-nhs

    The ONS study says- "The gender pay gap also varies by occupation. For full-time employees the gap is "positive" for all the main occupation groups, ranging from 4.3% for sales and customer service, to 24.6% for skilled trades occupations in April 2015."
    Oh yay only 4.3% pay gap!
    Need to do better if it's within the same profession.

    If you quote me in that new thread I will be unhappy as I do not want more Meninist La-di-da's calling me "feminist scum". Had quite enough of that.
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    (Original post by Samendra)
    I like how she is choosing which comments to reply to.
    Have you seen how many replies I got? Sorry for not having the time!
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    (Original post by Shadow Hunters)
    Have you seen how many replies I got? Sorry for not having the time!
    Can you not bring some of your friends along, it will actually be fun to see this debate.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Society is such a bad guy.
    Proper famous tho, he even had his own tsr forum
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    Do you have any evidence of this preprogramming? It is to do with anatomy, or hormones or something? I think it may have skipped me...
    http://www.attachmentparenting.org/s...ticles/bonding

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ildren-fathers

    http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/medical...t-bonding.html

    https://www.rcm.org.uk/sites/default..._Guide_WEB.pdf

    http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-ways-n...g-care-babies/
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    The reason mums are more often given custody is 1. because they generally settle out of court and the dad doesn't fight for it and 2. because *PATRIARCHY KLAXON* apparently they're better with kids because they have a vagina or something...
    You have evidence of number 1 I assume? If we're going on opinions then it seems far more likely that in fact child custody is just further proof that the British courts are skewed against men.

    It's amazing how even in situations where men are clearly disadvantaged feminists want to make women the victims.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    You have evidence of number 1 I assume? If we're going on opinions then it seems far more likely that in fact child custody is just further proof that the British courts are skewed against men.

    It's amazing how even in situations where men are clearly disadvantaged feminists want to make women the victims.


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    This article contains the stats and the link to where the stats came from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cathy-...b_1617115.html

    Point to where I made women the victims? I said it was due to patriarchy, which feminism works to combat.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    This article contains the stats and the link to where the stats came from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cathy-...b_1617115.html

    Point to where I made women the victims? I said it was due to patriarchy, which feminism works to combat.
    You do realise that the link on the huffington post article (to divorcepeers.com) is not only a broken link but would also be giving information about the USA? The whole article is about America.

    "Apparently they're better with kids because they have a vagina or something" - that's where you tried to make women the victims again


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    First link: Bit click-baity really. It says the researchers speculated.

    Second link: She's saying if this and if that...

    Third link: Baby is preprogrammed to make an attachment for survival purposes, doesn't say mum is.

    Fourth link: I haven't had time to read it all the way through (it's 31 pages) but I'm seeing that its encouraged for pre-natal classes, and the only biological drive would be the one to keep your baby alive, which would apply to both parents as it's your genetics you want to protect. If you can point to something specific in this one I'd be happy to debate.

    Fifth link: Already sceptical, given the source. I understand the role oxytocin may play in bonding, but isn't the same true of fathers? Number 2 in the link shows a possible biological rewiring for fathers as well, so if we take this article in its entirety it doesn't really do much for your point.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    You do realise that the link on the huffington post article (to divorcepeers.com) is not only a broken link but would also be giving information about the USA? The whole article is about America.

    "Apparently they're better with kids because they have a vagina or something" - that's where you tried to make women the victims again


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Didn't realise the link wasn't working, I'm not at my own computer, I'm sure I have some links at home, I'll have a look later.
    I wasn't being specific to the UK.

    I don't see any way in which that is making women victims? It's just explaining the patriarchal idea that feminists are against.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    Third link: Baby is preprogrammed to make an attachment for survival purposes, doesn't say mum is.
    Perhaps you missed the first paragraph and a key word in the first sentence of the second, which read:

    The process of bonding with a new baby is natural for most mothers. Left alone, new mothers will hold their baby next to their bodies, rock them gently, strive for eye contact, sing or talk to the baby and begin to nurse. Often within just hours of birth, mothers report feelings of overwhelming love and attachment for their new baby.

    A normal, full-term baby is also [i.e. like the mother, as described in para 1]programmed to initiate and enter into a bonding relationship.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Perhaps you missed the first paragraph and a key word in the first sentence of the second, which read:

    The process of bonding with a new baby is natural for most mothers. Left alone, new mothers will hold their baby next to their bodies, rock them gently, strive for eye contact, sing or talk to the baby and begin to nurse. Often within just hours of birth, mothers report feelings of overwhelming love and attachment for their new baby.

    A normal, full-term baby is also [i.e. like the mother, as described in para 1]programmed to initiate and enter into a bonding relationship.
    Most mothers?
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    Most mothers?
    Given the range of humanity and genetic 'faults', there are always going to be exceptions.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Given the range of humanity and genetic 'faults', there are always going to be exceptions.
    Anything on what this "natural" process is that most mothers have? I'd say that when I started pencilling in my eyebrows that it came "naturally" to me, but we wouldn't say I was biologically preprogrammed to do it... Without knowing if it's hormonal or due to brain structure or something it seems to carry as much weight as my colloquial use.

    It also doesn't state that there's anything unique to mothers here. Is it not possible a father would do the same with the newborn given the chance?

    I guess I fall into that exception as I've never felt maternal, but nobody seems to been accounting for my predisposition here when it comes to parental leave etc.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    Without knowing if it's hormonal or due to brain structure or something
    Those are the obvious candidates, and/or something to do with pregnancy/breast feeding, which men can never emulate.

    An individual woman has only to get her partner to bring up the child, and he would, I am sure, be as committed to egalitarian child rearing as the mother. She can then have a career unfettered by such choices.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Those are the obvious candidates, and/or something to do with pregnancy, which men can never emulate.
    Depending on the hormone, men can emulate it - one of your own sources mentioned a brain re-wire for men and an increase in prolactin, I also believe the oxytocin thing for bonding isn't woman specific either.

    To do with pregnancy, there may be a very slight advantage in the first few days if there are some pregnancy specific hormones at play, but these drop off a cliff a few days after birth (hence baby blues) and I don't think anyone would suggest a woman should go back to work within 12 hours of giving birth (unless she really really wants to).
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    No, they don't.

    Men earn more on average before taking into account things like different jobs and hours worked. When these factors are taken into account, there is little to no pay disparity to speak of. It is illegal to pay men and women differently for the same job.
    Nope, in job sectors like banking (I believe) the employer can legally pay a woman several thousands less than a man. It is only illegal in professions such as teaching, nursing ect.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    I didn't think of it that way, but that could be a part of it, although it does lead back to the same patriarchial values that make us think women are inherently better at childcare.

    Do you have any evidence of this preprogramming? It is to do with anatomy, or hormones or something? I think it may have skipped me...
    Its the primordial bond between mothers protecting their child and breastfeeding. It harks back to when males sought to impregnate multiple females, ensuring at least one of them would survive, while women locked down to protect their own. Its hormonal. Its also why men naturally lean towards more competitive, aggressive, selfish careers while women as a rule lean towards caring roles. Hormones I think.
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    (Original post by minimarshmallow)
    I don't understand your point. If the mother is a fit parent then of course she should be able to see her children, but it shouldn't be assumed that she's the better parent because she's the one with the lady parts.
    Legally speaking, they are.

    Ah, scratch it, this was your point.
 
 
 
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