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POLL: How do you feel about Jeremy Corbyn? Watch

  • View Poll Results: How do you feel about Jeremy?
    Favourable
    29.09%
    Unfavourable
    70.91%

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    (Original post by midnightice)
    There isn't a single FTA in the world that also mandates free movement of people aside from the EEA. If I'm wrong, then give me an example. The notion that free trade and globalisation necessitates free movement of people is ludicrous. You would call places like Singapore and Hong Kong as hubs for globalisation and free trade yet they have full control over their immigration policies. An open door does not suddenly induce a quality of globalisation, rather a reason-based policy grounded on sensible numbers and skills can help bring about all of its benefits.

    I'm sure Iceland and Switzerland agree with the notion that you need to be part of a customs union to negotiate trade deals with China. The thing with customs unions is that agreements are held up by differing national interests. The EU doesn't have an agreement with Australia due to Italian pressure groups, CETA was held up by Bulgarian visa issues etc. It takes an incredibly long time to negotiate as part of the EU, so it makes perfect sense, as the 5th largest economy in the world with the best financial centre in the world, to negotiate them ourselves outside of the common commercial policy at a much faster rate. This is further supplemented by the sovereignty arguments that I'm sure you're aware of.

    The EU has only demanded free movement of people if we were to remain in the single market. We're not going to, hence why we want a comprehensive FTA. If they don't agree to one, then watch the Eurozone implode as barriers are erected to its most important export market. Digging their own grave.
    These are rather unfortunate examples. I'd call them as places where most of their population growth comes from migration. They're no less liberal on immigration than the UK used to be (namely, quite liberal).

    For you, it's "ludicrous" that globalisation necessitates free movement of labour. For me, free movement of capital and goods is no more or less fundamental than free movement of labour. They're all inputs to production and the same rationale for allowing free trade in these other factors applies to labour.

    As regards negotiating free trade agreements, the rationale, again, would be the same if Yorkshire was negotiating a trade agreement alone or as part of the UK. It would take longer for the UK to reach such an agreement than Sovereign Yorkshire but the quality, the position of Yorkshire is vastly improved in the negotations when its part of the UK. Same if the UK is negotiating with gigantic China alone or part of the EU.

    You mentioned EFTA btw in your previous post, not just any agreement. EFTA includes free movement of labour. So there's that.
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    Keep him in, means the stupid lefties will never hold any real power.
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    (Original post by Melancholy)
    :laugh:

    Funny stuff.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    These are rather unfortunate examples. I'd call them as places where most of their population growth comes from migration. They're no less liberal on immigration than the UK used to be (namely, quite liberal).

    For you, it's "ludicrous" that globalisation necessitates free movement of labour. For me, free movement of capital and goods is no more or less fundamental than free movement of labour. They're all inputs to production and the same rationale for allowing free trade in these other factors applies to labour.

    As regards negotiating free trade agreements, the rationale, again, would be the same if Yorkshire was negotiating a trade agreement alone or as part of the UK. It would take longer for the UK to reach such an agreement than Sovereign Yorkshire but the quality, the position of Yorkshire is vastly improved in the negotations when its part of the UK. Same if the UK is negotiating with gigantic China alone or part of the EU.

    You mentioned EFTA btw in your previous post, not just any agreement. EFTA includes free movement of labour. So there's that.
    EFTA has immigration loopholes, actually. See Liechtenstein.

    It's really silly to think that the UK, arguably the most famous global trading nation in the history of the world, does not have any clout on the world stage. We will look back and wonder why on earth we gave up our seat in the WTO to some pipe dream political union. We already have many countries interested in a trade deal, not one has said no. See CANZUK.

    So by your definition of globalisation, it has only ever existed within the EU single market and nowhere else. I think you need to look again at what globalisation entails. Distinguish between movement of labour via visas and free movement as a statehood aspiration.
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    He's a complete wet cabbage who claims to want to ~stop teh Tories~ yet by virtue of him being leader of the ~Opposition~ he's the reason they're basically doing whatever they want (and I say that as a Tory voter who can recognise the importance of a strong opposition holding whatever government we have to account at all times). If he had a shred of decency or actually believed the rubbish he spouts, he would step down and let someone with some presence and influence take over. I'm largely convinced that he only wanted to be leader so that he could make sure we got out of the EU, despite his weak attempts at now claiming we shouldn't be leaving (hmmmm really from someone who has always been a Eurosceptic?) and I very much believe that as soon as the Brexit process is underway or complete he'll piss off.
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    (Original post by midnightice)
    EFTA has immigration loopholes, actually. See Liechtenstein.

    It's really silly to think that the UK, arguably the most famous global trading nation in the history of the world, does not have any clout on the world stage. We will look back and wonder why on earth we gave up our seat in the WTO to some pipe dream political union. We already have many countries interested in a trade deal, not one has said no. See CANZUK.

    So by your definition of globalisation, it has only ever existed within the EU single market and nowhere else. I think you need to look again at what globalisation entails. Distinguish between movement of labour via visas and free movement as a statehood aspiration.
    Which countries have actually even started negotations let alone concluded free trade agreements?/ the two major markets the UK's actual interests lie are in the EU and the US. Both are no-nos when it comes to free trade arrangements (the former because Trump thinks free trade "steals" stuff from the US and the latter because it will, contra to your Lichtenstein example, ask for a loose immigration policy which May can't accept because it will upset you).

    The point is what you give up, not merely what think you'll gain. It is not Britain remains in the EU OR Britain will have free trade with the rest of the world. It's more like Britain's export and import markets are in the EU where it has full access (not mere trade - again, hugely important point which is an embarrassment for allegedly pro-globalisation Brexiters) and it will leave that to pursue free trade (if these countries actually agree to it and not add a shitload of protections for their favourite industries) with basically Canada, India, Australia and whichever other countries aren't governed by anti-free trade, protectionist governments (such as China, Turkey, and nearly every major economy in the world)

    I am not moved by rhetoric and appeals to Britain's glorious past. It reminds me too much of Greek appeals to the glory that was Greece (despite its current absolute collapse) and Italian appeals to the grandeur that was Rome (despite its current and never-ending irrelevance in global politics)
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    I voted favourable, though I do have problems with him and wouldn't vote for him. The poll is a bit simplified.

    I like how he actually opposes the Conservatives rather than others in the Labour party who want to copy Conservative policy rather than opposing it. I get compromise is important in politics but some of the Blairites seem to be going too far and just want to be "like the Tories, but a bit nicer". During the last Conservative government when Milliband was leader, the Labour party basically just let some very bad Conservative welfare reforms through unopposed because they couldn't think of anything better - this kind of bull**** is simply not acceptable and I expect better from the "opposition" party.

    I don't like his opposition to air strikes on ISIS, to our nuclear deterrent and to military spending in general. He also has some political baggage regarding groups like the IRA. His pacifism is the main reason why I wouldn't vote for him.
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    (Original post by RainbowMan)
    Which countries have actually even started negotations let alone concluded free trade agreements?/ the two major markets the UK's actual interests lie are in the EU and the US. Both are no-nos when it comes to free trade arrangements (the former because Trump thinks free trade "steals" stuff from the US and the latter because it will, contra to your Lichtenstein example, ask for a loose immigration policy which May can't accept because it will upset you).

    The point is what you give up, not merely what think you'll gain. It is not Britain remains in the EU OR Britain will have free trade with the rest of the world. It's more like Britain's export and import markets are in the EU where it has full access (not mere trade - again, hugely important point which is an embarrassment for allegedly pro-globalisation Brexiters) and it will leave that to pursue free trade (if these countries actually agree to it and not add a shitload of protections for their favourite industries) with basically Canada, India, Australia and whichever other countries aren't governed by anti-free trade, protectionist governments (such as China, Turkey, and nearly every major economy in the world)

    I am not moved by rhetoric and appeals to Britain's glorious past. It reminds me too much of Greek appeals to the glory that was Greece (despite its current absolute collapse) and Italian appeals to the grandeur that was Rome (despite its current and never-ending irrelevance in global politics)
    Trump and his team have already agreed to start the groundwork for a UK-US trade deal, so what you're saying is nothing more than an alternative fact/fake news

    I hate Trump, but to be fair he has said he is in favour of 'free trade' if it is 'fair trade', and despite his economic illiteracy, he has made it clear that the UK is in this 'fair' category. The deal will be based on mutual product recognition so it will be fairly straight forward.

    May and Fox seem to be under the impression that we cannot start formal trade talks until we leave the EU, but I don't see where this is legally enforceable. The interest from other countries is there; that is undeniable.

    You really overstate the importance of membership of the SM/CU over a simple FTA. Things lost would be more customs checks and administrative measures dealing with country of origin, which are incredibly minor in today's terms. See the border between Norway and Sweden, very streamlined customs checks.

    Of course we will offer the EU a preferential visa deal/work permit system for immigration. The fact that you think the EU wants to cut off economic ties with its most important export market just shows how anti-trade and pro-politics they are. Not going to happen, for Germany's sake alone.

    I'm sure Italy and Greece have really been helped out by being members of the Euro, eh?
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    He's a communist traitor that deserves the noose.

    Pinochet didn't die for this idiot to get a modicum of power...
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    So how many labour supporters are no longer labour supporters because of corbyn?
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      (Original post by RainbowMan)
      a country whose president is the most protectionist president possibly in US history
      Trump is many things but the most protectionist president he is not. The US only really adopted a policy of free trade after the second world war and many of the big name presidents (Washington, Jackson, Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt) were outspoken advocates for tariffs. The earlier ones especially saw too many imports as a threat to American independence.
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      Useless, babbling, old fool who will never be an effective opposition leader.

      And a ****ing commie.
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      he's the worst political party leader i've ever come across

      he'd ruin the country tbh..
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      Uh... do you even know who Jeremy Corbyn is?
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      As a Conservative party member I hope he stays as Labour leader for a long time. He's absolutely useless and unelectable, I have family members who are die hard Labour voters who've completely turned away from the party because of Corbyn. I've got a better chance of becoming Prime Minister in 2020.
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      (Original post by sr90)
      As a Conservative party member I hope he stays as Labour leader for a long time. He's absolutely useless and unelectable, I have family members who are die hard Labour voters who've completely turned away from the party because of Corbyn. I've got a better chance of becoming Prime Minister in 2020.
      How comes you keep getting banned
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      (Original post by RedManc)
      How comes you keep getting banned
      I've been on here for years and i've never been banned once!
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      (Original post by sr90)
      I've been on here for years and i've never been banned once!
      How comes your profile says your banned
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      I'm indifferent, hard to gauge if he's actually any good or not when all I ever hear about him is his MPs telling him to sod off for no obvious reason.
      (Original post by ChickenMadness)
      So un-electable that no one can beat him in an election. Funny that.
      His MPs basically make him unelectable by constantly undermining him and saying he's unelectable, which he maybe wouldn't be if they'd actually give him a bit of stability for a bit.

      It sorta goes "He's unelectable because we make him unelectable because he's unelectable", at which point nobody knows if he's electable or not, so come the general election nobody votes labour because it looks like it's ripping itself apart and thus Corbyn is not elected, or rather...unelectable. Huh.
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      (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
      I'm indifferent, hard to gauge if he's actually any good or not when all I ever hear about him is his MPs telling him to sod off for no obvious reason.


      His MPs basically make him unelectable by constantly undermining him and saying he's unelectable, which he maybe wouldn't be if they'd actually give him a bit of stability for a bit.

      It sorta goes "He's unelectable because we make him unelectable because he's unelectable", at which point nobody knows if he's electable or not, so come the general election nobody votes labour because it looks like it's ripping itself apart and thus Corbyn is not elected, or rather...unelectable. Huh.
      He wants a maximum salary cap.

      He wants to borrow £500bn despite our huge national debt.

      He wants an industrial strategy built on some random 'internet of things' that he read somewhere once and didn't understand what it meant.

      He openly supported the IRA.

      He considered Hamas to be his friends.

      He's an incredibly rude and arrogant person.

      He made Diane Abbott the Shadow Home Secretary.

      He made Emily Thornberry the Shadow Foreign Secretary.

      He made Angela Rayner the Shadow Education Secretary. She left school without any GCSEs...

      He has never had a job outside of politics.

      I could go on, but in short he's ****ing terrible.
     
     
     
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