Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Should the EU fade and die. Watch

    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RedManc)
    The EU has caused untold misery to the citizens of: Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Italy, France and the UK. Should it die? I think it should.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...tle-for-europe
    The euro should fade and die and the eu should move back to the eec rules without free movement


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Hey, I'm a Sheffielder and immigration from Eastern Europe has genuinely turned the city into a cesspit. I can't speak much for the Western European migrants, but Roma immigrants from Eastern Europe, in particular Slovakia has made some parts of the city no go zones. I live in one of these parts of the city. If I was a rich southerner I would've voted to remain because the benefits outweigh the positives once I actually move out of this hellhole because I would've loved to take advantage of moving to an EU country, but unfortunately this is going to be very difficult. BTW I didn't vote in the Referendum because I was 17 during the referendum, but my entire family and extended family voted for Brexit, and these were staunch Labour supporters, slowly drifting to the Tory party and UKIP.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pezisland37)
    Hey, I'm a Sheffielder and immigration from Eastern Europe has genuinely turned the city into a cesspit. I can't speak much for the Western European migrants, but Roma immigrants from Eastern Europe, in particular Slovakia has made some parts of the city no go zones. I live in one of these parts of the city. If I was a rich southerner I would've voted to remain because the benefits outweigh the positives once I actually move out of this hellhole because I would've loved to take advantage of moving to an EU country, but unfortunately this is going to be very difficult. BTW I didn't vote in the Referendum because I was 17 during the referendum, but my entire family and extended family voted for Brexit, and these were staunch Labour supporters, slowly drifting to the Tory party and UKIP.
    Labour needs to regain its traditional base and to that they need to be very anti-EU. Do you want to join my group. It does have some other Sheffielders as well.

    https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/group.php?groupid=3972
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RedManc)
    Labour needs to regain its traditional base
    Yep , it need to become neoliberal once again.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fleky6910)
    Yep , it need to become neoliberal once again.
    No it doesn't.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RedManc)
    No it doesn't.
    Your opinion is invalid because you are unwilling to use evidence and know nothing about economics.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fleky6910)
    Your opinion is invalid because you are unwilling to use evidence and know nothing about economics.
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by fleky6910)
    The euro gave misery to greece , not the EU, they are different....
    The Euro didn't harm Greece. Greece did. They cooked the books to gain entry to the EU when in actual fact they were massively in debt. They wanted in and are now being punished by the rules they wanted to sign up to. Same with Ireland. They were happy to be a tiger economy in the good times. None of the woes of these countries were the result of the EU.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    With regards to the EU (you really mean Germany and the IMF) causing misery i'd put that aside and say that sovereign nations are free to cede power if they wish. What we in the UK do not have experience of is living under a soviet dictatorship and now today having an aggressive Russia a couple of hundred miles away from your tiny nation. In that context it's easy to understand why most of Eastern Europe is firmly comitted.

    With regards to the Euro one of the reasons for its problems is that like the EU it is a half measure, an unfinished painting. They have a mutual currency but no mutual debt since that would mean higher borrowing costs for Germany but lower for Greece, this is the primary difference between the Euro and the US which from time to time also has failing states (New York in the 70's almost went bust and Michigan today).

    I would also say that people are being too broad brush with their grouping of states in trouble since there are many different reasons and only Greece and Italy are being harmed by the Troika rather than a problem of their own making..

    Ireland - Ireland tied its tax system to it's property market and hence when that collapsed, it ended up with a deficit to GDP of ~30%. It took a bailout, engaged in reform (the rest of its economy was structurally sound) and is now fine.

    Spain - A similar problem to Ireland except that it's economy was less competitive and the Euro priced too high for them. They have engaged in reform and are now fine, it's also worth saying that their bailout was for their banks rather than government.

    Italy - Actually runs a primary surplus but its economy is woefully noncompetitive and that is largely down to incompotent government for decades. Leaving the Euro would help in the short term but this crisis is Italy's fault (a combination of corruption, being generally left leaning and Italy being made up of a bunch of city states that make any reform slow going).

    Portugal - Plainly incompetent in their managing of fiscal affairs with a mediocre economy. They have however taken the bailout and are on the right track.

    Greece - The initial crisis was the fault of the Greeks who had a rubbish economy and no fiscal discipline however they are being strangled to death by debt. They should have been kicked out.

    France - The French economy is a basket case caused by socialist governance and the unions having massive power. Their woes are their own making.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Far too many disregard the EU as a failure when truth be told it has brought a number of benefits to Europe, most importantly of which is economic growth. My issue with it is the sheer size of the state and just how powerful it has become.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Far too many disregard the EU as a failure when truth be told it has brought a number of benefits to Europe, most importantly of which is economic growth. My issue with it is the sheer size of the state and just how powerful it has become.
    France hasn't grown more than 2% in a year for more than 50 years

    Italy hasn't grown more than 2% a year since 1980 so that's 37 years

    Can't see data for Spain before 1996 but in the last 21 years they haven't reached 2%

    Can't see data for Germany before 1990 and they haven't reached 2% in the last 27 years

    The uk has gone over 2% a couple of times since we joined the EEC but it was a regular occurrence before.

    Should I go on?

    They aren't even growing with inflation.

    Where's this magnificent growth?




    Posted from TSR Mobile
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    France hasn't grown more than 2% in a year for more than 50 years

    Italy hasn't grown more than 2% a year since 1980 so that's 37 years

    Can't see data for Spain before 1996 but in the last 21 years they haven't reached 2%

    Can't see data for Germany before 1990 and they haven't reached 2% in the last 27 years

    The uk has gone over 2% a couple of times since we joined the EEC but it was a regular occurrence before.

    Should I go on?

    They aren't even growing with inflation.

    Where's this magnificent growth?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I'm pretty sure you must be looking at quarterly rather than yearly data because the data for the UK, Spain, Italy and Germany is wrong. Indeed, bar Italy they've all grown by 3%+ in at least one year since the Great Recession.

    Unless your looking at something other than nominal GDP?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I'm pretty sure you must be looking at quarterly rather than yearly data because the data for the UK, Spain, Italy and Germany is wrong. Indeed, bar Italy they've all grown by 3%+ in at least one year since the Great Recession.

    Unless your looking at something other than nominal GDP?
    Just gdp growth if it was quarterly then it would be 6% instead of 1.5% and since when does a developed Western European economy do that


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    France hasn't grown more than 2% in a year for more than 50 years

    Italy hasn't grown more than 2% a year since 1980 so that's 37 years

    Can't see data for Spain before 1996 but in the last 21 years they haven't reached 2%

    Can't see data for Germany before 1990 and they haven't reached 2% in the last 27 years

    The uk has gone over 2% a couple of times since we joined the EEC but it was a regular occurrence before.

    Should I go on?

    They aren't even growing with inflation.

    Where's this magnificent growth?




    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Judging by the fact that the EU was established in 1993, your point isn't showing very much.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aceadria)
    Judging by the fact that the EU was established in 1993, your point isn't showing very much.
    The figures include that period it's still 24 years of that magnificent growth 😂


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    The figures include that period it's still 24 years of that magnificent growth 😂
    But it does not necessarily act as evidence for a 2% growth rate. Moreover, growth is relative; it can be argued that 2% growth is not necessarily a negative.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by paul514)
    Just gdp growth if it was quarterly then it would be 6% instead of 1.5% and since when does a developed Western European economy do that

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    While i'm sure your looking at some kind of GDP growth figure in terms of an absolute annual figure your figures don't match.

    Western economies tend to average growth of 2-2.5% because recessions weigh down the average. The 93-03 period in the UK for example actually saw a decadal average above 3%, 2007 and 2014 both saw 3% growth.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I would like the EU to survive but in different formula, with lesser bureaucracy, less interference in economy, and withut the EU parliament or with huge reforms of it. Right now, the EU parliament is an example of chaos, and extremely low level of discussion.
    It works as a sinecure, where mad politicians are sent by their national parties that want to get rid of them, but cannot simply kick them out for some reasons, so they corrupt them by sending to the EU parliament, where they receive high salary and can feel important, so they don't discredit themselves and their parties inside the countries.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Yes, why not?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    Yes.
    I am a remainer and always will be due to the single market but I feel like the EU has strayed too far from its economic roots and is focusing too much on politics and governing its member states.
    And yes, I have seen the BBC documentary on the EU and it's become increasingly clear that countries are becoming more frustrated on the political power of the EU (look at France and Italy for example)
    And I agree with Marine Le Pen about the fact that Germany had exploited the Euro and the EU has become too political, even though she is way too right wing for my tastes. I am centre-left.

    I would love for the EU to reform back into an economic union and see it succeed, but as it stands in its current form, it needs to die out and be reborn as a purely economic union
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Did TEF Bronze Award affect your UCAS choices?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.