Youtube and Disney cancel PewDiePie for Nazi sympathies

Kids especially internet dwellers find random offensive stuff to be funny. Doesn't surprise me that he's saying jokes like this, sounds like him to get more attention. Not that he's actually a nazi or whatever but pretty sure Disney doesn't want to be associated with this.

If it is this searing expose of Nazis, a clever satire

The intent, however, was satire.

They're third-world people, of course they were going to do it.

We're probably getting to a point of diminishing returns, but I'll have another shot at it.

Let's say, hypothetically, that the position espoused by TSRians in defence of him, that this is really some sophisticated satire of Nazis rather than just puerile "shock" humour (at best) or sly expressions of an underlying or embryonic view that tends in that direction (at worst). If his intention is to satirise Nazis, then surely the effect of his words matters.

Let's say I go around the office at work saying things like, "Damn, I can't stand those gay fag***s. Disease-ridden subhumans, they're so disgusting; spreading their AIDS everywhere with their filthy sodomy". Let's say that I think this is a brilliant satire of homophobes.

And the reaction is that the office homophobes actually love this "satire" that is supposed to ridicule them, while the gay people in the office find it deeply offensive. With that knowledge, keeping in mind my intention is supposed to be to satirise and ridicule the homophobes and that the gay people I purport to support and defend, find it deeply obnoxious and offensive, does it then make sense to continue making those comments on the basis that both the gay people and the homophobes just don't "get it"?

If, knowing that it makes the homophobes walk a little taller and get some kicks and amusement, and makes the gay people in the office feel like crap, I continue with it anyway, I can't in actuality think that much of gay people or really care what their views are. And I can't, in actuality, really make any serious claim that it's really some clever satire of homophobes when in fact the homophobes don't feel injured or defensive about it but instead feel validated by it.

If one continues to say these things, knowing the effect it has on both sides, then I think one's intentions become somewhat clearer. Pewdiepie knows that the neo-Nazis are walking taller because of it, feeling validated by it, and knows that many Jewish people find it offensive. In continuing with it, we can deduce a lot about the relative value he places on their opinions

@SinsNotTragedies @Reality Check

The only people who find it funny and edgy are people who already hate Jews.

Second, if you're so indifferent to the wellbeing and safety of Jews that you're willing to say they should all be killed (whether for a "joke" or otherwise), then that indifference tells us everything we need to know about your regard (or lack thereof) for the Jewish people.

There's nothing edgy or funny about calling for the genocide of a people who were almost wiped out within living memory.

X

The problem is that whether he is a Nazi or not, the effect of his words is to make Nazis feel validated and make Jewish people feel offended. If it really is some "brilliant satire" of Nazis, as other TSRians are claiming, and in actuality the effect is the opposite (neo-Nazis love and applaud it, Jewish people find it offensive), then if he continues to do it, it does call into question the degree to which it is truly intended to ridicule the bigots.

I think my comment (linked below) probably expresses my view on the subject most clearly

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4560058&p=70092826&page=4#post70092826

What was unclear about what I said? They are living in a third-world country, they are extremely poor. The idea that he thought they wouldn't do this simple job for a $5 payment is ludicrous. As I said, it has a rather nasty "punching down" flavour to it.

We're probably getting to a point of diminishing returns, but I'll have another shot at it.

Let's say, hypothetically, that the position espoused by TSRians in defence of him, that this is really some sophisticated satire of Nazis rather than just puerile "shock" humour (at best) or sly expressions of an underlying or embryonic view that tends in that direction (at worst). If his intention is to satirise Nazis, then surely the effect of his words matters.

Let's say I go around the office at work saying things like, "Damn, I can't stand those gay fag***s. Disease-ridden subhumans, they're so disgusting; spreading their AIDS everywhere with their filthy sodomy". Let's say that I think this is a brilliant satire of homophobes.

And the reaction is that the office homophobes actually love this "satire" that is supposed to ridicule them, while the gay people in the office find it deeply offensive. With that knowledge, keeping in mind my intention is supposed to be to satirise and ridicule the homophobes and that the gay people I purport to support and defend, find it deeply obnoxious and offensive, does it then make sense to continue making those comments on the basis that both the gay people and the homophobes just don't "get it"?

If, knowing that it makes the homophobes walk a little taller and get some kicks and amusement, and makes the gay people in the office feel like crap, I continue with it anyway, I can't in actuality think that much of gay people or really care what their views are. And I can't, in actuality, really make any serious claim that it's really some clever satire of homophobes when in fact the homophobes don't feel injured or defensive about it but instead feel validated by it.

If one continues to say these things, knowing the effect it has on both sides (the opposite of the claimed intention), then I think one's true disposition become somewhat clearer. Pewdiepie knows that the neo-Nazis are walking taller because of it, feeling validated by it, and knows that many Jewish people find it offensive. In continuing with it, we can deduce a lot about the relative value he places on their opinions

@SinsNotTragedies @Reality Check

edit: the tl;dr version of this is the last three paragraphs.

I can concede some of this because I don't think there's much difference in whether it is 'puerile shock humour' or satire. The effect is the same: that it isn't meant to be taken seriously, and isn't taken seriously by anyone who isn't already disposed to want to take it seriously.

Context matters. Walking around the office saying something, as just a guy, is different from saying something as a person who makes his living as, in part, a comic. The difference is in how your comments are likely to be perceived: they are far less obviously meant to be taken as a joke if you're just saying this stuff walking around your office. Of course, even if they are meant as a joke, you have far better justification in taking offence at someone's comments when they are making them in your immediate vicinity, whilst walking about your workplace, than if someone made them in a video that you can decide not to watch.

This also impacts on your point about genuine homophobes feeling validated by what you're saying. This would require more context: are you in a very liberal office? Say, I don't know, a design-centred business in New York? Then it is doubtful that anyone would take you seriously. Or, are you working in an office of Saudi Aramco? Perhaps in that case it's a little more likely you'd be taken seriously.

Because context is so important I don't find this analogy particularly helpful, so I'll address the last couple of points directly in relation to PewDiePie. For what it's worth I think in your analogy these comments would tend to go beyond what is acceptable in the context, and may well be reasonably interpreted as involving a degree of genuine endorsement of homophobic views, not least because the comments are given in the immediate vicinity of gay people and regardless of what may well be their feelings about it. This would all be subject to the actual dynamic in the particular office.

There are two key points about the context of the PewDiePie incident. One is that this is a comic who is known to say shocking things on occasion to get laughs. The other is what is actually being said, which is so far beyond the realm of acceptable opinion that no reasonable viewer would believe that he really meant it.

In this context, he is not responsible for the thoughts and feelings of those involved with the Daily Stormer -- which, by the way, are sure to have been more or less exactly the same before and after he made these comments. These people are not interpreting his comments in a reasonable manner. They are interpreting them through the lens of an anti-semitic worldview. They are doing this because they are anti-semites.

As I pointed out above, these people often think they are just 'saying what everyone is thinking'. They will obviously be inclined to take anything that is said as an affirmation of their world view. It would be completely unreasonable to consider anyone outside of that group to be under a duty to filter what they say according to how it might be taken by a fringe group.

Hmm... I wouldn't consider him a nazi. It's just his sense of humour, really. It's quite edgy and provocative. Plus, he apologised later on for the joke.

The problem is, it's not a one-off comment. He has posted swastikas on his social media timeline, done little Hitler salutes, used the N-word, claimed he is persecuted because he is a white man, and conveyed the message "Hitler was right".

Imagine if there was someone who kept making comments like, "All Muslims are terrorists and camel-f***ers", and calling Mohammed a paedophile, and all the usual right-wing tropes. And when he was called on it, he claimed, "Oh, I'm just satirising Islamophobes". That wouldn't seem very convincing

Great news.

I really hope that YouTube get involved as well. Nazi sympathizers should have their YouTube channels banned regardless of how many subscribers they have.