The British Justice system is a pathetic joke

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username2766878
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http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-35442024.html

A man rapes a 12 year old, gets her pregnant, and he gets off with a 10 month jail sentence because of this bullsh** about judges having to take into account "mitigating factors", add to that the strong probability he'll get out after serving half the sentence because of good behaviour. BBC Panorama exposes lawlessness in HMP Northumberland, where convicts have virtual control over prison facilities. These are just two examples of what a criminal sympathising disgrace our justice system has become. Beginning with the abolition of the death penalty in 1965, leftist philosophy on crime and justice has watered down this country's justice system. The emphasis is no longer on punishment or accountability, rather our judges go out of their way to diffuse responsibility for a crime on some "environmental factor" or some "mental health problem" to give as lenient as a sentence as possible. And god I am sick to the death of hearing the word "rehabilitation" because the flawed (or leftist) implementation of that that is the root of all our problems. The obsession to rehabilitate rather than punish has led to the deterrent effect of prison completely evaporating. Criminals no longer fear the law and as a consequence, career criminals thrive and terrorise inner-cities and council estates.

Our sentences need to be lengthened and we need to reverse the current trend whereby authority within prisons are abdicated to convicts. If that means building more prisons, so be it. If it means hiring more guards or bringing in the military temporarily, then so be it. Heck, if it means deprivatising some prisons then so be it. The leftist obsession to reduce the prison population is totally artificial. I am disgusted that members of the British political class would be willing to risk the safety of the British public. I am even more disappointed in the Conservative Party for continuing on with Labour's cr**. Prison needs to become much more austere and order needs to be re-instated. Use corporal punishment if necessary. There's room for "rehabilitation" provided it actually means providing criminal scum with useful skills that makes them employable. "Rehabilitation" however does not mean letting prisoners have taxpayer funded televisions in their cells. No more early release. The integrity of our justice system relies on sentences being served to their full.

And yes, I say bring back capital punishment for especially horrific cases of murder, paedophillia, rape, battery and treason. Of many of the instances I've read about in the past few years, capital punishment would have been both the moral and effective thing to do. Where capital punishment isn't applied, a full life tariff should be imposed (particularly for murder). Lastly, we need an uncompromising war against organised crime. The gloves have to come off to combat the most loathsome filth in the nation, the drug peddlers and racketeers. Current efforts are half-hearted. We cannot have a robust justice system without robust enforcement. More manpower and resources must be granted to police. It is nonsensical to be ring-fencing foreign aid but cutting back on policing.

Enough is enough.
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goat_boy
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Time to end the war on drugs.
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Drewski
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(Original post by Sycatonne23)
And yes, I say bring back capital punishment for ... treason.
When was the last treason conviction in the UK? Has there been a spate of incidents of treason in the last few years that's gone unreported?
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the bear
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i agree with much of the original post. building many more prisons on brownfield sites would create thousands of jobs; re-introduce the death penalty for a wide range of offences. it is what the majority of people want.
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InnerTemple
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Ignoring the experiences of countries which effective penal systems, and instead just locking people up/ executing them does sound rather attractive.

If you read the Daily Mail.
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ByEeek
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But when the simple facts of the matter are that prison doesn't work. Doesn't act as a deterrant or punishment to some and corporal/capital punishment really doesn't work, why pursue ever more prisons?

The problem with justice is that one's emotional rationale for revenge is very much different to the justice system that is impartial and simply looks at the facts of the case dispassionately.
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Laomedeia
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(Original post by ByEeek)
But when the simple facts of the matter are that prison doesn't work. Doesn't act as a deterrant or punishment to some and corporal/capital punishment really doesn't work, why pursue ever more prisons?

The problem with justice is that one's emotional rationale for revenge is very much different to the justice system that is impartial and simply looks at the facts of the case dispassionately.
So if prison doesnt work, and the death penalty doesnt work (altho I am pretty sure re offending is low with that one), what do you suggest? How else would you remove criminals from society?
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username2228735
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The state should not have the authority to kill an individual.
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Laomedeia)
So if prison doesnt work, and the death penalty doesnt work (altho I am pretty sure re offending is low with that one), what do you suggest? How else would you remove criminals from society?
Prison does work but only if rehabilitation is at its heart. The problem with prison at the moment is that it is a cooking pot for criminal behaviour and because the probation service has all but disappeared when people keave proson there no choice but to reoffend. There is also no support for the 50% or so of prisoners with mental health issues. Prison in its current state is a mess.
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samjacko9256
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What does a life sentence achieve?

I could understand if an individual was deemed too dangerous to live in society, but apart these circumstances (which are very rare) an increase in life sentences would have far more negatives than positives: increase violence in prisons, Increase costs of prisons

the death penalty is notcost effective, the amount of appeals that occur is very time consuming and finacially draining
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Tree Bark
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(Original post by samjacko9256)
What does a life sentence achieve?

I could understand if an individual was deemed too dangerous to live in society, but apart these circumstances (which are very rare) an increase in life sentences would have far more negatives than positives: increase violence in prisons, Increase costs of prisons

the death penalty is notcost effective, the amount of appeals that occur is very time consuming and finacially draining
Keeping them locked up is a good way of wasting there time further, most would rather be dead anyway.
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username2228735
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(Original post by Tree Bark)
Keeping them locked up is a good way of wasting there time further, most would rather be dead anyway.
It is a drain on resources and there is little evidence to suggest it benefits society.
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macav1ty
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was your brain surgically removed or were you born without one
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Davij038
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(Original post by ByEeek)
But when the simple facts of the matter are that prison doesn't work. Doesn't act as a deterrant or punishment to some and corporal/capital punishment really doesn't work, why pursue ever more prisons?

The problem with justice is that one's emotional rationale for revenge is very much different to the justice system that is impartial and simply looks at the facts of the case dispassionately.
What’s the reoffending rate of people executed?

How many crimes in public do people on prison commit. Prison works. The problem is the cost.
Some solutions:

Bring back capital punishment for the worst offenders: paedos, terrorists etc.

Cut immigration from dodgy countries and deport foreign born criminals

For lesser crimes some form of rehabilitation
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ByEeek
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(Original post by Davij038)
What’s the reoffending rate of people executed?

How many crimes in public do people on prison commit. Prison works. The problem is the cost.
Some solutions:

Bring back capital punishment for the worst offenders: paedos, terrorists etc.

Cut immigration from dodgy countries and deport foreign born criminals

For lesser crimes some form of rehabilitation
I will agree with the last argument you put forward. But capital or corporal punishment doesn't work. Nor does harsh sentencing. If it did, surely the USA would be crime free no? And deportation doesn't work either as I well know as someone who frequently deports slugs and snails from my garden - they just come back.

The problem with the justice system as written by you is that it isn't based on making society a better place i.e. less crime, it is about taking out revenge on those who have done you wrong. And as long as you are emotional about it in your desire to see vengeance, crime will never be solved. As a teacher, if you want to get a kid to behave you will always have more success showing them with praise than you will if you just throw sanctions at them.
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Davij038
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(Original post by ByEeek)
I. But capital or corporal punishment doesn't work.
It does work. You can’t reoffend if you’re dead.

. If it did, surely the USA would be crime free no?
Mmmm no but it will never be crime free. I’d wager introducing a more liberal justice system wouldn’t change anything either.

And deportation doesn't work either as I well kno as someone who frequently deports slugs and snails from my garden - they just come back.
A) so you should just give up and let them trash your garden
B) that doesn’t mean you should use other methods such as slug pellets?
C) you don’t go around other people’s gardens, ones not as well cared for as yours and put their slugs in your garden


The problem with the justice system as written by you is that it isn't based on making society a better place i.e. less crime, it is about taking out revenge on those who have done you wrong.
I would fundamentally disagree with your view- the justice system should be about justice not about making society a better place (which is politics) which is the reason why the police are so utterly pathetic today thanks to are monumentaly pathetic prime ministerl.

Police should fight crime and not be social workers.

And as long as you are emotional about it in your desire to see vengeance, crime will never be solved.
Crime in itself will never be ‘solved’. But, actually yes it could be. For instance let’s we deported all Muslims. How many Islamic terrorist incidents would we get once we achieve this?

As a teacher, if you want to get a kid to behave
you will always have more success showing them with praise than you will if you just throw sanctions at them.
Pretty much my entire family are teachers. The thing that kids need is structure and order. It depends what sanctions are put in place as to whether they’re effective. I don’t advocate for bringing back the cane, but some schools need excessive discipline especially in schools like in London- for obvious reasons.,
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Prasiortle
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(Original post by Davij038)
It does work. You can’t reoffend if you’re dead.
OK, let's say you implement the death penalty for murder. It is a demonstrable fact that human judges and jurors are imperfect and thus sometimes the wrong people are convicted - just look at the Guildford Four, Birmingham Six, and Maguire Seven for examples. Observe also that a Harvard study has estimated around 15% of those on death row in the USA to actually be innocent. Thus, at some point the state will inevitably end up killing an innocent person. Now, "killing an innocent person" - that sounds like murder to me, so the state murdered someone, and hence by your own logic of "murderers should get the death penalty", the death penalty itself must be killed since it committed a murder. So rather than reintroducing the death penalty only to have to abolish it again when it murders the first innocent person, we simply do not reintroduce it.

(I would also point out that you cannot be a member of the Council of Europe - a separate organisation from the EU, if you weren't aware - if you have the death penalty, but you probably support leaving the Council of Europe just as you support leaving the EU. Thus I made my other usual argument, as you can do a whole range of mental gymnastics but you're not going to get around this one.)
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jadey.tw
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look up Norway's prison system and you'll find something that actually works. We have a 60% recidivism rate in the UK - 16% in Norway. "Prisons are just an expensive way of making bad people worse". Look at effective prison systems like the Norway model instead of just killing people off even when they may be innocent. While I do agree that the sentencing of the rapist is too light, thats more so an issue of the mitigating factors, so how you can jump from that to the death penalty seems absurd, as someone else said, you sound like your research is the daily mail really.
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AspiringAccount
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Where's batman when you need the ni*ga.
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Davij038
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(Original post by Prasiortle)
OK, let's say you implement the death penalty for murder. It is a demonstrable fact that human judges and jurors are imperfect and thus sometimes the wrong people are convicted - just look at the Guildford Four, Birmingham Six, and Maguire Seven for examples. Observe also that a Harvard study has estimated around 15% of those on death row in the USA to actually be innocent. Thus, at some point the state will inevitably end up killing an innocent person. Now, "killing an innocent person" - that sounds like murder to me, so the state murdered someone, and hence by your own logic of "murderers should get the death penalty", the death penalty itself must be killed since it committed a murder. So rather than reintroducing the death penalty only to have to abolish it again when it murders the first innocent person, we simply do not reintroduce it.
.)
The state will always make mistakes in every field, so by your logic shouldn’t exist?

In any case, you’re treating the state as an individual, which it isn’t. Your argument doesn’t regally make sense unless you’re coming from an anarchist perspective.

Besides, I think there are cases when the evidence is simply incontrovertible such as Lee Rigbys killer
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