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islam bashing on ukl ? watch

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    (Original post by Adhsur)
    I don't know where you got that from but I will delete posts that insult any religion or race as long as I get directed to them.
    OK about race. Religion is a different thing. Let us assume someone defends human sacrifices (quite common in some of our old religions, still remembered in the Bible by the Abraham/Isaac story), would we be right in calling that person's religion criminal, deviant, plain crazy? I suppose yes.

    The problem with Islam is that the Quran includes some really nasty, violent verses. You can interpret, put them into context etc etc. There are of course also "kindler, gentler" verses. I think that several commentators in fact make a distinction between the "Meccan" Surahs (much more lenient) and the "Medinian" (much more violent).

    I personally believe that we are fully entitled to call a spade a spade, and that condoning violence and oppression deserve no respect, whether enshrined in the Quran, the Bible, the Torah or the Marx/Engels theories.

    First, I freely admit that my joke about gassing Muslim women was tasteless and I deleted it within a minute of posting it. I do apologise for the poor taste on that occasion.

    Second, I don’t dislike Islam because of 9/11 – I really don’t give a damn about Americans losing two over-sized buildings. I dislike Islam because I find it to be a very stupid religion. It’s a very simplistic religion, with simpleton ideas (i.e. it reflects its founder’s ideas). The manner of speech in it is so hideously childish “Allah is most wise” etc etc that its. I’m a philosopher – I esteem works of genius, of depth, and transcendency. Islam, and the Qur’an in particular, is the antithesis of genius. Islam is basically recycled Judaism-Zoroastrianism with an Arabic dress. But it is recycled with barbarity and stupidity. Islam has turned every value into an un-value, every truth into a lie, every integrity into a vileness of the soul. Let anyone dare to speak to me of it as “the religion of peace”! It is against health, beauty, whatever has turned out well, courage, spirit, graciousness of the soul, against life itself. It is a great curse, a great innermost corruption, embodying a great instinct of revenge, for which no means is poisonous, stealthy, small enough.

    Islam is the ideas of one man: Mohammad. Mohammad was a Jew (his mother was Jewish, and one is a Jew if one’s mum is Jewish) but an illiterate one. He knew the Jewish myths but only as hearsay (hence why he mixed the legends up). He transplanted them into the Arabic setting (Ishmael was now the favoured one, not Isaac). This idiotic fanatic then got the delusion that he’s the final prophet – he saw the complexity of orthodox Christianity and couldn’t comprehend it – it ran against his deeply held simpleton instincts. He then simplified Judaism-Christianity and Islam was born. The simpleton (pbuh) simply repeated the old Zoroastrian train of thought, but dumbed-it down and barbarized it (for Mohammad was a desert warrior).

    For example, Mohammad received the idea of heaven from Judaism and Christianity, but his vision of heaven as a place where faithful Muslims get young virgins (no doubt to brutalize for all eternity) was purely his fantasy projected onto the existing concept.

    Islam’s code of morality is Mohammad’s code of morality; Islam’s visions of the afterlife are Mohammad’s visions; Islam’s metaphysics are Mohammad’s. And Mohammad simply recycled Judaism\Christianity but with the understanding of a simpleton and the brutality of a savage. He was an unenlightened simpleton who was under the sway of his sexual impulses. A mediocre Anglican priest has more insight, understanding, and spirituality than he did.

    And a billion people blindly follow the idiot ideas of this idiot!

    Compare Islam with Buddhism: the latter is infinitely superior. Islam, indeed, is unworthy of being compared to Buddhism.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Compare Islam with Buddhism: the latter is infinitely superior. Islam, indeed, is unworthy of being compared to Buddhism.
    and u are unworthy of making tht judgement , calling a religion superior than another ( they are all equal in my view ) , urself a philosopher and best yet , a human-being .. at least a decent one

    (Original post by infekt)
    and u are unworthy of making tht judgement , calling a religion superior than another ( they are all equal in my view ) , urself a philosopher and best yet , a human-being .. at least a decent one
    How can one honestly claim that the simplistic, unoriginal, unenlightened and primitive plagiarism known as Islam be even worthy of comparison to the refined beauty of Buddhism, with its clarity of insight and enlightened understanding?

    BTW I’m not a Buddhist in case you ask.

    But I will give you this - there is one form of Islam that does have insight and worth: Sufism. But that's it.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    How can one honestly claim that the simplistic, unoriginal, unenlightened and primitive plagiarism known as Islam be even worthy of comparison to the refined beauty of Buddhism, with its clarity of insight and enlightened understanding?

    BTW I’m not a Buddhist in case you ask.

    But I will give you this - there is one form of Islam that does have insight and worth: Sufism. But that's it.
    Sufism isnt a "form" of islam ... its a way of life , sufis are people who devote their life to the quran and to the prophet , they have insight coz they truly belive and know in the quran . IM from pakistan and i know quite a few ppl wo are sufis . they are highly religious people ..

    If u think islam is simplistic , then thts wat sufis believe in .. only they devote their entire time to learning it deeply ..
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    jus one quote to show wat a sufi believes in

    "One who dies for the love of the material world, dies a hypocrite. One who dies for the love of the hereafter, dies an ascetic. But one who dies for the love of the Truth, dies a sufi."

    (Original post by infekt)
    Sufism isnt a "form" of islam ... its a way of life , sufis are people who devote their life to the quran and to the prophet , they have insight coz they truly belive and know in the quran . IM from pakistan and i know quite a few ppl wo are sufis . they are highly religious people ..

    If u think islam is simplistic , then thts wat sufis believe in .. only they devote their entire time to learning it deeply ..
    Sufism is actually deemed a heresy by orthodox Islam. And they have insight because they practically ignore the Qur'an and only interpret it symbolically. Sufism is basically mystical Islam.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Sufism is actually deemed a heresy by orthodox Islam. And they have insight because they practically ignore the Qur'an and only interpret it symbolically. Sufism is basically mystical Islam.
    thts not wat sufism is ... ur confusing it with dervishes ... thts the mystic form which originated in the ottoman empire . Go to pakistan outside a mosque or one of the sites where "saints" are buried . Ur not allowed to worship saints in islam but they are there ... thts where u will find sufis ...
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    How can one honestly claim that the simplistic, unoriginal, unenlightened and primitive plagiarism known as Islam be even worthy of comparison to the refined beauty of Buddhism, with its clarity of insight and enlightened understanding?

    BTW I’m not a Buddhist in case you ask.

    But I will give you this - there is one form of Islam that does have insight and worth: Sufism. But that's it.
    so which religion do you believe in? tell me if this religion has sense or not.
    i can understand where you are coming from, but all religions have ideas of their own where only those following the religion would believe it.
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    Many of the caliphs after the death of the propeht practiced it , and if u search it up on the net .... ull find tht only some forms of sufism are not recognized by islmaic nations .. its not mentioned in the following article but im sure that "the whirling dervishes" are not recognized .. coz they dont pray .. instead they whirl around as a form of worship for allah ...

    http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/eng...hFatwaID=18041

    thts very much worng worng and considered shirk by most muslim nations , turkey being the exception and im not sure but i think certain parts of iran
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    (Original post by neha p)
    so which religion do you believe in? tell me if this religion has sense or not.
    i can understand where you are coming from, but all religions have ideas of their own where only those following the religion would believe it.
    hes atheist i think ...
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    if ur really interested in sufism chck out the poet and philosopher imam al-ghazalis works

    i read some in urdu books , i dont know if u can get english translations of em

    (Original post by neha p)
    so which religion do you believe in? tell me if this religion has sense or not.
    i can understand where you are coming from, but all religions have ideas of their own where only those following the religion would believe it.
    I am neither theist nor atheist.

    I am a seeker. I go into many caves to look for gold. I find much wealth in various religions, spiritual philosophies etc.

    Religious images come from the collective unconscious - they are symbolic of inner realities. Thus, for example, the Greek mythos of hades (which in Christianity becomes hell) is a symbol of those unconscious and asleep in their body (an ancient Neoplatonic writer also interprets it thus). Heaven is "within" (Gospels of Luke and Thomas), a state of consciousness, not a literal place in the sky.

    The unenlightened take these religious images to be literal of external places and things. Mohammad was one such person who simply adapted and simplified the existing Judaism-Christian chain of mythology into an Arabic setting.

    "God", I would posit, is an archetypal image of the ultimate being that we unconsciously project out.

    The mythologies of Christianity etc are symbolic stories of our becoming these archetypes, realizing them within our consciousness - thus Clement of Alexandra wrote "God became man that man may become God". The Gospels are pure symbolism which the ignorant take literally (thus in the Gospel of John Jesus, who represents the man on the journey to enlightenment and transformation, declares that he is God). Only those awake can see what they pertain to. But the Qur’an contains no symbolism - its absurd stories are meant to be taken literally, for their author (rather, adapter), Mohammad, took them so. Mohammad was not an enlightened man or a visionary - but an ignorant man who garbled the existing mythology of his time. Completely unoriginal and full of confusion.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    I am neither theist nor atheist.

    I am a seeker. I go into many caves to look for gold. I find much wealth in various religions, spiritual philosophies etc.

    Religious images come from the collective unconscious - they are symbolic of inner realities. Thus, for example, the Greek mythos of hades (which in Christianity becomes hell) is a symbol of those unconscious and asleep in their body (an ancient Neoplatonic writer also interprets it thus). Heaven is "within" (Gospels of Luke and Thomas), a state of consciousness, not a literal place in the sky.

    The unenlightened take these religious images to be literal of external places and things. Mohammad was one such person who simply adapted and simplified the existing Judaism-Christian chain of mythology into an Arabic setting.

    "God", I would posit, is an archetypal image of the ultimate being that we unconsciously project out.

    The mythologies of Christianity etc are symbolic stories of our becoming these archetypes, realizing them within our consciousness - thus Clement of Alexandra wrote "God became man that man may become God". The Gospels are pure symbolism which the ignorant take literally (thus in the Gospel of John Jesus, who represents the man on the journey to enlightenment and transformation, declares that he is God). Only those awake can see what they pertain to. But the Qur’an contains no symbolism - its absurd stories are meant to be taken literally, for their author (rather, adapter), Mohammad, took them so. Mohammad was not an enlightened man or a visionary - but an ignorant man who garbled the existing mythology of his time. Completely unoriginal and full of confusion.
    i find it sadder that u actually believe in wat u say ... well to each his own ... cnat change an " enligtened philosopher" .... jus on a side note .. u dont dream these things up when ur high on LSD or absinthe do u ?
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    i think this is where you are going wrong. you just cannot mix ideas from dfferent religions to form a solitary concept in your mind.
    christians believe in genisis where one day god made earth and the next day adam/eve, but the hindu idea is completely different, so ofcourse comaring the two, one would appear insane.
    if you are neither theist nor atheist, i think it is best for you to accept that many many people across the globe and certainly in UKL have their own religionsand amongst these are orthodox people as well.
    you have put forward your ideas in a very strong manner but remember that it is not the fault of these people if they were taught 'Allah is the greatest'
    if they have grown up with it, nothing would seem dtrange about it to them, but to an outsider it would. these people have to be respected that at least they have a religion and they are worshipping Gods of there own, whoever they may be. it takes a lot to stay firm in ones religion and i for one am experiencing that right now, so i feel anyone who has faith in their religion should be encouraged for what they are able to do. if you are not part of that religion, it had nothing to do with you.

    (Original post by neha p)
    i think this is where you are going wrong. you just cannot mix ideas from dfferent religions to form a solitary concept in your mind.
    christians believe in genisis where one day god made earth and the next day adam/eve, but the hindu idea is completely different, so ofcourse comaring the two, one would appear insane.
    if you are neither theist nor atheist, i think it is best for you to accept that many many people across the globe and certainly in UKL have their own religionsand amongst these are orthodox people as well.
    you have put forward your ideas in a very strong manner but remember that it is not the fault of these people if they were taught 'Allah is the greatest'
    if they have grown up with it, nothing would seem dtrange about it to them, but to an outsider it would. these people have to be respected that at least they have a religion and they are worshipping Gods of there own, whoever they may be. it takes a lot to stay firm in ones religion and i for one am experiencing that right now, so i feel anyone who has faith in their religion should be encouraged for what they are able to do. if you are not part of that religion, it had nothing to do with you.
    Any student of mythology knows that there are strong parallels in many religious and mythological stories (for example, there are several stories of a son of god dying on a cross and rising on the third day that existed centuries before the advent of Christianity). Behind all these mythology are basic, irreducible archetypical themes that are symbolic They are perennial.

    Sure, the creation stories will differ in form, but the same archetypal idea is behind them all.

    These ideas and images also appear in dreams of people who have never encountered such material suggesting that their origin lies in the deeper stratas of the unconscious mind.

    Also, often the very worst interpreters of a religion's symbols and mythology is the members of that religion in question. Roman Catholicism, for example, has incredible images and mythological stories but very few Roman Catholics, especially theologians, have any real insight into them.
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    (Original post by Biggles)

    but very few Roman Catholics, especially theologians, have any real insight into them.
    it would be quite nice to see u as a pope :rolleyes: .... ud make every catholic sit in a dark room and think of how theire lives are insignificant compared to a philospohers ..
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Any student of mythology knows that there are strong parallels in many religious and mythological stories (for example, there are several stories of a son of god dying on a cross and rising on the third day that existed centuries before the advent of Christianity). Behind all these mythology are basic, irreducible archetypical themes that are symbolic They are perennial.

    Sure, the creation stories will differ in form, but the same archetypal idea is behind them all.

    These ideas and images also appear in dreams of people who have never encountered such material suggesting that their origin lies in the deeper stratas of the unconscious mind.

    Also, often the very worst interpreters of a religion's symbols and mythology is the members of that religion in question. Roman Catholicism, for example, has incredible images and mythological stories but very few Roman Catholics, especially theologians, have any real insight into them.
    as mentioned before, i understand what you have said in the quoted post, its just the attitude you have to the religion in front of the people worshipping it i have a probalem with.
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    (Original post by neha p)
    as mentioned before, i understand what you have said in the quoted post, its just the attitude you have to the religion in front of the people worshipping it i have a probalem with.
    do u think tht will change him :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by infekt)
    do u think tht will change him :rolleyes:
    no, but it has to be said. he needs to respect others as well as give his own views.
 
 
 
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