Is it possible to negotiate a conditional offer to unconditional? Watch

UnNorm
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I'm an american and our colleges are different. They need a firm commitment by May 1st and I wouldn't know the results of the scores I need for my conditional offer until July, so I cant really risk everything on a UK school, I would need an unconditional.
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hxrrict
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probably not, but you'd have to ask them
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username2571271
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Sadly not, if they wanted to give you an unconditional, they would have given you one.
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legendoftortor
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You have a bit of leeway here, especially as an international student. From what I understand, a lot of advisors (such as those from Across the Pond, which you should check out if you're not working with them already: www.studyacrossthepond.com ) will recommend that you accept a place both at an American university and pick a firm (and insurance, if applicable) choice in the UK. That way, you have an option in both countries in case the UK university doesn't work out. From what I understand, you are able to back out of the UK process at any time before submitting your visa application. So, if you did change your mind and decide that you wanted to stay in the US instead, all you would have to do is let the university know. If you achieved the scores you needed and decided to go to the UK, you would let the US university know that you are no longer going to be able to attend their institution. I've backed out of attending Gardner-Webb University in North Carolina, even after putting a housing deposit down, because I realized I wouldn't be able to afford the full cost of tuition. Plus, after doing some more research, I realized the university just wasn't for me. Now, I'm applying to study in the UK as well!

I'm just speaking from my own experience and what I've heard, so I would recommend contacting an advisor with Across the Pond to help you figure out what the best route for you to take is. They have more experience in this area and could probably give you advice that is tailored more directly to your particular situation. They are also able to communicate directly with their partner universities, so they may be able to help you communicate with the UK universities you've applied to. As for the US university, I would try contacting your individual institution that you are interested in and explain your situation. They may be more flexible than you realize!
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claireestelle
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(Original post by UnNorm)
I'm an american and our colleges are different. They need a firm commitment by May 1st and I wouldn't know the results of the scores I need for my conditional offer until July, so I cant really risk everything on a UK school, I would need an unconditional.
No, if they wanted to give you one then they already would have. If us colleges dont allow you to pull out then if the uk is where you really want to go then a year isnt that long in perspective?
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Luke7456
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I have asked this sort of question and seen this sort of question asked in several threads. I often get people giving flawed responses such as it shows a lack of confidence when I can give logical explanations.

Eg I get an offer from Oxford or Cambridge (still not sure which one I would apply to)

anyway Imperial and Warwick then make me an offer. lets say the Oxbridge offer is very hard to meet but I think with hard work I can meet it Imperial make me a slightly easier offer and Warwick make me an offer in between that difficulty so I can firm Oxbridge but then ask Warwick to make me an easier offer so I can put them as the insurance.

Seems logical, and its not that I am insecure in myself otherwise I wouldn't firm Oxbridge its more that I want a bit of a comfort zone.

However whilst the your insecure and that looks bad response is flawed The fact is Warwick get plenty of applicants anyway and their is nothing so exceptional about me per say that it would justify negotiating or haggling the offer.

You have to take account of the greater picture universities already have their places full and a reputation to maintain.

Further if enough people had ever managed to successfully haggle an offer, I am sure by now someone would have said well I negotiated my offer with university X etc.

never seen anyone say that.

It actually looks like If I get offers from any prestigious universities Warwick will be the hardest of all offers to meet unless I apply to Cambridge so they wouldn't be an insurance. They would either be a firm or just would not go their.

If I did end up applying to and getting an offer from Cambridge Warwick and Imperial then I would probably try to firm Cambridge and since I would be making Imperial my insurance try my hand at negotiating with Warwick because In this situation I have absolutely nothing to lose.

Apart from potentially pissing Warwick off and not been able to get their in clearing etc though not sure I would stand a chance in that anyway do they even participate in clearing?

anyway in the unlikely event this all happens and Warwick actually negotiate which they wont, I will let you guys know.
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Doones
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(Original post by Luke7456)
I have asked this sort of question and seen this sort of question asked in several threads. I often get people giving flawed responses such as it shows a lack of confidence when I can give logical explanations.

Eg I get an offer from Oxford or Cambridge (still not sure which one I would apply to)

anyway Imperial and Warwick then make me an offer. lets say the Oxbridge offer is very hard to meet but I think with hard work I can meet it Imperial make me a slightly easier offer and Warwick make me an offer in between that difficulty so I can firm Oxbridge but then ask Warwick to make me an easier offer so I can put them as the insurance.

Seems logical, and its not that I am insecure in myself otherwise I wouldn't firm Oxbridge its more that I want a bit of a comfort zone.

However whilst the your insecure and that looks bad response is flawed The fact is Warwick get plenty of applicants anyway and their is nothing so exceptional about me per say that it would justify negotiating or haggling the offer.

You have to take account of the greater picture universities already have their places full and a reputation to maintain.

Further if enough people had ever managed to successfully haggle an offer, I am sure by now someone would have said well I negotiated my offer with university X etc.

never seen anyone say that.

It actually looks like If I get offers from any prestigious universities Warwick will be the hardest of all offers to meet unless I apply to Cambridge so they wouldn't be an insurance. They would either be a firm or just would not go their.

If I did end up applying to and getting an offer from Cambridge Warwick and Imperial then I would probably try to firm Cambridge and since I would be making Imperial my insurance try my hand at negotiating with Warwick because In this situation I have absolutely nothing to lose.

Apart from potentially pissing Warwick off and not been able to get their in clearing etc though not sure I would stand a in that anyway do they even participate in clearing?

anyway in the unlikely event this all happens and Warwick actually negotiate which they wont, I will let you guys know.
Warwick will not negotiate with a maths applicant. And they are not in Clearing for maths.

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Luke7456
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(Original post by Doonesbury)
Warwick will not negotiate with a maths applicant. And they are not in Clearing for maths.

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as I thought I guess I can rule out Warwick then. If I get the grades to justify an application I will get likely get an easier offer from Imperial.

If I don't get the grades they wont make me an offer. I mean hypothetically speaking say I got an A in maths and an A* in further maths and planned to resit C3 or C4 would they likely make me an offer for maths and statistics? I assume not.

maybe I would try an application anyway as nothing to lose but I would think it unlikely.

Imperial have already confirmed that they would accept additional further maths whilst Warwick said they would not I would need to do an additional A level for Warwick probably in Physics then worry about that. Whilst for Imperial if I performed well on the MAT I could potentially get an offer that does not even Include STEPS and have an easy ride on the final modules.

Hence the only way I can see me applying to Warwick is if I get A and A* which is lower then they require or if I get A*A* and then get rejected both from Oxbridge and Imperial.

If I get A*A* I think Imperial would at least give me the chance to sit MAT and if I have all summer to prepare for that I would likely do well in it and get an offer.

Oxbridge would probably flat out reject me regardless. Unless Oxford had a policy of not making a decision until they see the MAT in which case I would likely get an interview and at that point I just need to be prepared and able and I likely will get an offer if I perform well at the interview.

However I have a feeling they reject a lot of applicants before they sit MAT right?
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Doones
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(Original post by Luke7456)
However I have a feeling they reject a lot of applicants before they sit MAT right?
No. All Oxford applicants sit the MAT and are then shortlisted for interview when they get the results.

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Luke7456
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(Original post by Doonesbury)
No. All Oxford applicants sit the MAT and are then shortlisted for interview when they get the results.

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so then if I had a strong performance on the MAT I would be likely to get short listed for interview?

if so a strong performance at interview would likely get me an offer?
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WesMichael
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(Original post by doonesbury)
warwick will not negotiate with a maths applicant. And they are not in clearing for maths.

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i reckon if you slip them a cheeky mango under the table at interneview youll be able to get yourself an unconditionel. The powers of the mango are so often underestimated
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Doones
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(Original post by Luke7456)
so then if I had a strong performance on the MAT I would be likely to get short listed for interview?

if so a strong performance at interview would likely get me an offer?
My understanding is they review your application holistically including interview performance and everything else.

Cambridge would certainly have an holistic approach.

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Reality Check
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(Original post by Luke7456)
so then if I had a strong performance on the MAT I would be likely to get short listed for interview?

if so a strong performance at interview would likely get me an offer?
You mention applying to either Oxford or Cambridge in an earlier post. It's important to note that each works on a fundamentally different system for admissions.

Oxford look to shortlist - that is they select the strongest candidates in the cohort from the academic evidence they already have (importantly) and are predicted to get. They then interview to make the final selection. Cambridge works by deselection - they aim to interview everyone who has a reasonable chance of being offered a place, and only exclude those who are obviously not in the running for a place - poor previous results, poor test results or a particularly unsupportive reference might be good reasons to deselect.

So MAT results are going to be very important for Oxford. Is there a particular reason why you wouldn't want to go to the more premier institution, Cambridge?
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Luke7456
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(Original post by Reality Check)
You mention applying to either Oxford or Cambridge in an earlier post. It's important to note that each works on a fundamentally different system for admissions.

Oxford look to shortlist - that is they select the strongest candidates in the cohort from the academic evidence they already have (importantly) and are predicted to get. They then interview to make the final selection. Cambridge works by deselection - they aim to interview everyone who has a reasonable chance of being offered a place, and only exclude those who are obviously not in the running for a place - poor previous results, poor test results or a particularly unsupportive reference might be good reasons to deselect.

So MAT results are going to be very important for Oxford. Is there a particular reason why you wouldn't want to go to the more premier institution, Cambridge?
Well their is some debate within me on which university would be better.

For starters if I am honest with myself I want to cover a lot of probability and statistics so it might make more sense to do a degree in Mathematics and statistics then just straight maths. I am not yet clear on how flexible Cambridge are with module choice however the problem with choosing my own education all the way eg what modules I do etc is that I don't know what I don't know. I may think that module X sounds great and just what I need but it turns out that Module Y is essential to what I want to do but I don't know it yet.

Where as Oxford have a clear maths and statistics course already.

So I think in terms of the actual course Oxford wins.

Then I have the situation with a weak academic past and applying without steps with A*A* in maths and further maths and additional further maths + Physics pending I might be flat out rejected. most of my education was over ten years ago apart from my last degree which I graduated with a 2:1 in 5 or so years ago.

So I feel with Cambridge I am more likely to be rejected where as if I can stand out on the MAT it appears I will likely get an interview.

Then I have to figure out what an offer may entail for Oxford if they accept additional further maths as one of the A levels I would not need Physics and would have an easy ride to the third A* thus making meeting the offer an almost formality. If they did not accept additional further maths then I have an entire year to try and learn Physics to A* standard. which I think is certainly doable.

Now if I get an offer from Cambridge I will need to get a 1 in Steps 2 and 3 to get an offer. this would be much much harder to do then to learn Physics in a year, and I might need to learn Physics for Cambridge if they don't accept additional further maths.

then we have the college fees Cambridge specifically say that if you have a degree already you need to pay college fees on top which is another £7000 a year. for 3 years an extra £21000 which is a big deal if I am self funding without a student loan.

against Oxford we have antisemtic incidents and the fact that they are less prestigious for maths then Cambridge are.

However that is only recently and in previous times Oxford had a better rep for maths didn't they? sure I heard that somewhere? it may be different they may have switched places by the time I graduate anyway.

Regardless is it really a big deal anyway I mean both are absolute world class world famous institutions. I doubt someone will turn round and go Hmm you went this guy went to Oxford but that guy went to Cambridge, Cambridge is better for maths reject the Oxford guy.

I mean maybe with Oxbridge vs Bristol or something but is their really that much in it between Oxford and Cambridge?

so it appears I would stand more of a chance of getting into Oxford its a course I would find more desirable and it will be significantly cheaper.

which is a strong argument for Oxford, however i have a long time to think about it. besides when I looked at the step paper I couldn't do it I can already do quite a bit of MAT give me all summer and I really think I can ace that.
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Doones
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(Original post by Luke7456)
Well their is some debate within me on which university would be better.

For starters if I am honest with myself I want to cover a lot of probability and statistics so it might make more sense to do a degree in Mathematics and statistics then just straight maths. I am not yet clear on how flexible Cambridge are with module choice however the problem with choosing my own education all the way eg what modules I do etc is that I don't know what I don't know. I may think that module X sounds great and just what I need but it turns out that Module Y is essential to what I want to do but I don't know it yet.

Where as Oxford have a clear maths and statistics course already.

So I think in terms of the actual course Oxford wins.

Then I have the situation with a weak academic past and applying without steps with A*A* in maths and further maths and additional further maths + Physics pending I might be flat out rejected. most of my education was over ten years ago apart from my last degree which I graduated with a 2:1 in 5 or so years ago.

So I feel with Cambridge I am more likely to be rejected where as if I can stand out on the MAT it appears I will likely get an interview.

Then I have to figure out what an offer may entail for Oxford if they accept additional further maths as one of the A levels I would not need Physics and would have an easy ride to the third A* thus making meeting the offer an almost formality. If they did not accept additional further maths then I have an entire year to try and learn Physics to A* standard. which I think is certainly doable.

Now if I get an offer from Cambridge I will need to get a 1 in Steps 2 and 3 to get an offer. this would be much much harder to do then to learn Physics in a year, and I might need to learn Physics for Cambridge if they don't accept additional further maths.

then we have the college fees Cambridge specifically say that if you have a degree already you need to pay college fees on top which is another £7000 a year. for 3 years an extra £21000 which is a big deal if I am self funding without a student loan.

against Oxford we have antisemtic incidents and the fact that they are less prestigious for maths then Cambridge are.

However that is only recently and in previous times Oxford had a better rep for maths didn't they? sure I heard that somewhere? it may be different they may have switched places by the time I graduate anyway.

Regardless is it really a big deal anyway I mean both are absolute world class world famous institutions. I doubt someone will turn round and go Hmm you went this guy went to Oxford but that guy went to Cambridge, Cambridge is better for maths reject the Oxford guy.

I mean maybe with Oxbridge vs Bristol or something but is their really that much in it between Oxford and Cambridge?

so it appears I would stand more of a chance of getting into Oxford its a course I would find more desirable and it will be significantly cheaper.

which is a strong argument for Oxford, however i have a long time to think about it. besides when I looked at the step paper I couldn't do it I can already do quite a bit of MAT give me all summer and I really think I can ace that.
This is a bit off topic for the OP.

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