Trump administration removes protection for transgender kids Watch

AlexanderHam
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The Trump administration will be repealing federal rules that allow transgender teenagers in public schools to use the bathroom corresponding to their gender instead of the one corresponding to their birth sex

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/us/politics/devos-sessions-transgender-students-rights.html?hp&action=click&pgty pe=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

To me, this seems like the pettiest of decisions and it's really incredible that doing something that will bring shame and anxiety to transgender teen kids is such a high priority for them, that this is such an important issue that they're assigning it valuable time and resources when there are so many real issues that the US Department of Justice and the Attorney-General should be focusing on.

Have they also considered the actual effect this will cause in real life? Say you're a 16 year old boy and you turn up at school, and head into the loo, and you see another student who (looks like / is) a girl there staring at you. I think that would probably be much weirder and more awkward than a transboy (birth sex female) who looks / acts like / is a boy being in the bathroom.

There is something just really nasty and mean and petty in this decision. The fact it is about young transgender people makes it particularly so.
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AlexanderHam
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I have a hunch that, aside from it being mean and nasty, that the administration probably doesn't care as much about the actual issue as it is Steve Bannon thinking this is a brilliant move to triangulate against and snooker the "SJW", to cause a controversy where they think the "silent majority" of Americans will agree with them and thus they can set themselves up in opposition to "liberal elites"

But I think they're going to find a backlash even amongst conservatives given the inherent nastiness and weirdness in the administration pursuing this "issue" when they have so much on their plate in terms of actual matters of public importance. And just like the 'Muslim ban', they will have misjudged the public mood and the political consequences and will probably be frustrated in their goals by their own incompetence
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AlexanderHam
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This whole transgender bathroom issue has been a huge obsession for some American conservatives (although to their credit many other American conservatives have said it's a completely irrelevant issue and the evangelical obsession with it is weird).

It's also completely detached from reality when you think about the practical implications. When the North Carolina bill which would force trans people to use the bathroom corresponding to their birth sex was debated, this picture went around showing a practical effect.

Name:  trans-restroom.jpg
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This is what you will get when you enforce this preposterous "birth sex only" rule. You will get people who look like / are men in women's bathroom, probably making the women in there quite uncomfortable, and you will get people who look like / are women in men's bathrooms. In think that state of affairs is much more likely to make (looking at it from my perspective) male students feel uncomfortable or weird
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anarchism101
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This is Buck Angel. He was declared female at birth, and didn't begin transitioning until his 20s.



This is Michelle Hendley. She was declared male at birth, and didn't begin transitioning until her late teens.

Anyone who really thinks Angel should use the women's toilets and Hendley the men's is clearly a ****ing moron.
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Aj12
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(Original post by anarchism101)


This is Buck Angel. He was declared female at birth, and didn't begin transitioning until his 20s.



This is Michelle Hendley. She was declared male at birth, and didn't begin transitioning until her late teens.

Anyone who really thinks Angel should use the women's toilets and Hendley the men's is clearly a ****ing moron.
But, but what if someone dressed as a women goes into the ladies toilets and rapes someone? Then what will we do. It's political correctness gone mad, or something.....

Interesting to see Trump's Ed Secretary opposed removing the protections. Maybe she's not completely useless.

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MildredMalone
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(Original post by AlexanderHam)
This is what you will get when you enforce this preposterous "birth sex only" rule. You will get people who look like / are men in women's bathroom, probably making the women in there quite uncomfortable, and you will get people who look like / are women in men's bathrooms. In think that state of affairs is much more likely to make (looking at it from my perspective) male students feel uncomfortable or weird
Passing transpeople would have no problem when it comes to using their preferred bathroom. They can just go in, do their business, and leave. No-one will know, it doesn't matter. Likewise, a trap who still looks "male" might get beaten up by militant females for going in her preferred bathroom whether or not she's legally allowed in there.

(Original post by Aj12)
But, but what if someone dressed as a women goes into the ladies toilets and rapes someone? Then what will we do. It's political correctness gone mad, or something.....
That is a pretty dumb argument. If someone's morally bankrupt enough to rape someone, they won't care if they're allow in there.
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Drewski
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(Original post by MildredMalone)
That is a pretty dumb argument. If someone's morally bankrupt enough to rape someone, they won't care if they're allow in there.
It is.

But it hasn't stopped that argument being the basis for 99% of the disagreement to the original protection in the US, which was his point.
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IFLICHBA
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You make me ashamed to be a liberal.
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AHappyTeddybear
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There should be 4 types of public toilets: Mens, Ladies, Neutral and Disabled.

Neutral mainly being for the use of Trans people and anyone who simply doesn't mind sharing a public restroom with someone of the opposite gender.

Mens & Ladies would be for those who are uncomfortable with the idea of sharing with trans people. (Those who say that some men/women would use the excuse of being trans to perv out on them)

Disabled as it currently is, designed to be usable for those bound to a wheelchair or just less able.

Personally I couldn't give a S*** if a trans person was in a public toilet with me, but I can understand why some people may be uncomfortable with the idea.

-AHappyTeddybear
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anarchism101
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(Original post by Aj12)
But, but what if someone dressed as a women goes into the ladies toilets and rapes someone? Then what will we do. It's political correctness gone mad, or something.....

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Exactly. As we know, the only possible method of prosecuting someone who rapes someone in a toilet is the charge that they were in the wrong toilets. Because rape is only actually a crime in itself when it's not in the toilets. If a man rapes another man in the men's toilets, there's literally nothing at all that can be done about it, because both were in the right toilets.
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DetectivePeralta
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I think it would be better if we could let the states decide. I don't think the US government should be deciding who can and cannot use which bathroom, let the states decide. Personally, I feel that it would be better if people used the bathroo, corresponding to their gender at birth but this matter is best left to the states.
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TaintedLight
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Trump and his stooges lack any foresight to put America on a path towards long term prosperity or growth. Like the four times he poorly ran his business for short term gain, his administration is only happy with changes that have an instant effect regardless of the potential risk or cost a future administration will inherit.

What he did with revoking bathroom protections of transgender school students is further alienate an often bullied and misunderstood demographic of the united states. This decision in many ways a legitimized ridiculing these kids by claiming whatever their identity is, it's invalid.

@anarchism101: Your examples are invalid.
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jamestg
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(Original post by Trapz99)
I think it would be better if we could let the states decide. I don't think the US government should be deciding who can and cannot use which bathroom, let the states decide. Personally, I feel that it would be better if people used the bathroo, corresponding to their gender at birth but this matter is best left to the states.
I think it should a county-level issue. I would feel sorry for those living in Republican states.
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wsstunt002
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No offense, but you shouldn't care about trump it isn't your place to comment.
I can't walk into girls bathrooms so why should a trans person be allowed to
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Luke7456
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just who gives a **** seriously!

I understand the fight about Gay marriage and Gay rights generally but I really couldn't care who gets to use what toilets etc.

it is where you crap and piss. Now if one set of toilets was nicer then the other maybe and I am sure in some places the guys toilets are nicer then the girls and vice versa but this will be case specific.

and even then seriously its where you crap and piss.

I just utterly don't give a **** and I am surprised that anyone would make this into an issue.

We have major problems with global politics, a major economic time bomb waiting to go off which will likely be worse then the great depression and serious concerns about the environment and global warming.

But no **** all that lets all get our knickers in the twist about who can piss where.

You know what yes lets actually do that because if our species is that retarded we deserve to go extinct anyway.
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AlexanderHam
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(Original post by Luke7456)
I understand the fight about Gay marriage and Gay rights generally but I really couldn't care who gets to use what toilets etc.
Well said, very well put indeed.

And you're right, it's utterly bizarre that the Trump administration would become so obsessive over this, but it shows the unfortunate mindset of many evangelical Christians and right-wingers that they see the question of who can use what loo as either a hugely important moral issue or a major front in the "War against the SJW".

I just utterly don't give a **** and I am surprised that anyone would make this into an issue.
Indeed. I couldn't care less and nobody would even notice it or think it was an issue if the Trump / hard-right hand't, at a time when there are huge problems in the world and countless massive issues competing for the attention and resources of the administration... that in an era like this, they would spend precious time and resources starting a controversy because, "Oh no! A boy who happened to be born with XX chromosomes (but now looks completely like a boy, is socially a boy, acts like etc) went into the stall in the male bathroom".

But no **** all that lets all get our knickers in the twist about who can piss where.

You know what yes lets actually do that because if our species is that retarded we deserve to go extinct anyway.
I completely agree with your take on this. It exhibits a massive degree of superficiality to focus on such a triviality, such a banality, as this when for goodness sake ISIS is in control of Palmyra, southern Europe is creaking under the weight of government debt, multiple South American countries are moving toward authoritarianism, there is incredible religious hatreds and divides causing untold violence in Pakistan, and of course the countless domestic issues in the US like people without health insurance, poverty, household debt, American infrastructure which in many parts of the country is in ruins, the US middle class being more squeezed than at any time since the late 19th century... on and on and on, so many profoundly difficult and intractable problems requiring insight, thoughtfulness and indeed focus, attention and hard-work (for you cannot just magic a problem away), at a time like that and given the US president and his administration have limited time, focus and resources they can assign to deal with a realistic number of issues at a level at which they might actually change something... in that context, they say "Aha! A 16-year old transboy used the boys toilet, he should only be allowed to use a special segregated toilet"[1]. That, apparently, is a major issue in their eyes

Note [1] It's true. One school in America said that this transexual boy could not use one of the normal toilets but instead would have to use a segregated toilet, a converted broom closet, for his use only. Wow, that's a classy thing to do to a kid
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Captain Haddock
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Gotta love that small state conservatism.
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mojojojo101
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There really is a very, very, very obvious answer to such a problem.

Just introduce unisex toilets.
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999tigger
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
There really is a very, very, very obvious answer to such a problem.

Just introduce unisex toilets.
That's a pretty good idea.
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anarchism101
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
There really is a very, very, very obvious answer to such a problem.

Just introduce unisex toilets.
Yup. Or even better, have both unisex and segregated toilets if you're a building with more than one set anyway. That's how it is in my uni's gym. The toilets on the Ground Floor are segregated, while those on the First Floor are unisex.

What annoys me sometimes is when places have their toilets built in an essentially gender-neutral way and then arbitrarily designate them male or female purely out of convention. I was in a restaurant a few months ago where the toilets were all in the same room, with the sinks, mirrors and hand-dryers all for both men and women. There were no urinals; all the toilets were fully-enclosed cubicles, separated by small walls, with no way anyone could possibly peek under/over the door or into a neighbouring cubicle. Yet half had been arbitrarily labelled as female and the other half as male. Really, why?
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