The Student Room Group

Scroll to see replies

Reply 40

ChrisA86
is this a good or a bad thing? what with the introduction of top-up fees i have no clue about finance for newer students..


on the old system, people paid circa 1k if they came from a higher income background. paid nothing if they were from the lower income background.

on the new system everyone pays £3k for tuition fees REGARDLESS of their parents'/household income. This is only paid after graduation and NOT upfront (like the old system).

However, new students are now given a grant (i.e non -repayable) DEPENDING on their financial circumstances. (However students on the old system were given a loan depending on their financial cirumstances).

The grant is done on a sliding scale.

so if you come from the higher end; you get nothing.

if your parents earn something in between; then you'll get a partial grant.

if your parents (or households) income is at the lowest end then you get the full or maximum grant.

(i use grant and bursary interchangeably btw).

so 13% (of the then new first year students) got the grant last year . I personally think that is low. but i have nothing to compare it to. the newspaper article didnt give a comrehensive list for all universities.

And 60% of 13 is what? (does mental arithmetic in head). say just under 8. so roughly 8% of students at Leeds (or 1 in 12) are from the bottom end of the low income household.

Reply 41

Digitiser
I wouldn'tve thought it would be necessary to look at stats for Leeds. Leeds has over 70,000 students living in the city, you would've thought that would've equated to a diverse class representation through that figure alone?


82,000 actually and I am hoping that I see you in Leeds soon and you can see my Bus pass then I will shuv it where the sun doesnt shine :biggrin:

Reply 42

Jacket Potato
Wow, I really wasn't expecting so much of a debate! I asked because I want to study sociology and, as I pointed out in the sociology talk at Exeter, it would be difficult to study diversity in a supremely white, middle class environment!

I do go to a grammar school but it's nearer to London really than Kent so it is actually very ethically diverse and I just prefer it that way as most of my friends are either not white or middle middle class.:p:


I'm not meaning to have a go at you here because i think you come across as fairly well meaning, but do you not think it's perhaps a little bit messed up to choose your friends based on their ethnicity and class? as messed up as an upper class person refusing to associate with someone from a working class background...


for the record, I just started at Leeds this year and through a series of accidental circumstances have ended up in halls where I would say that, not including the international students, 60 - 80% of the other people living there went to private schools or boarding schools. I come from a very lower middle class background... my parents both grew up on bad council estates in Liverpool and worked very hard to try and give me a middle class upbringing (that's a story for another day) Now. This is a situation that could potentially lead to a lot of turmoil but it doesn't because of one crucial factor: PEOPLE ARE NOT DEFINED BY THEIR SOCIAL CLASS AND/OR PARENTS INCOME. I hold no water at all with people who think that inverse snobbery is somehow acceptable - the same people who would be completely up in arms if an upper class person said something about not wanting to associate with people from the lower end of the financial spectrum think that it's okay to do the exact same thing in reverse. i get on okay with most people; there has been the odd few circumstances where I have had to work a little bit harder to prove myself because of my accent and background but thems the breaks I guess. it's an ingroup/outgroup psychological thing



that said, occasionally i do feel like some people are coming from a complete different page to myself. and there are the odd few muppets who would no way in HELL be here if they hadn't had the money and the schooling behind them. but *shrugs* that's diversity, eh?

until we somehow resolve the ever increasing gap between the rich and the poor (or alternatively, the attitude of those who believe that most of the time, wealth is down to anything but luck and circumstance) this is just the kind of thing ya have to live with. it isn't the biggest deal in the world

Reply 43

cherrypip
my parents both grew up on bad council estates in Liverpool and worked very hard to try and give me a middle class upbringing (that's a story for another day) Now. This is a situation that could potentially lead to a lot of turmoil but it doesn't because of one crucial factor: PEOPLE ARE NOT DEFINED BY THEIR SOCIAL CLASS AND/OR PARENTS INCOME.


Your background is very similar to my own then, cherrypip (just replace Liverpool with Sunderland and South Shields), but i have to disagree. I feel culturally, physically, emotionally and intellectually disadvantaged by going to a state comp, and there's no way i will ever fit in with those people who had relatively normal upbringings elsewhere in the country. It's easy to say people aren't defined by social class if you've made it, but what about all those people who never got to uni because the schools they went to made their lives an endless and futile struggle?

Reply 44

cherrypip


for the record, I just started at Leeds this year and through a series of accidental circumstances have ended up in halls where I would say that, not including the international students, 60 - 80% of the other people living there went to private schools or boarding schools. I come from a very lower middle class background...


I only feel sorry for you. i would hate to live in digs where 60 - 80 pc are from private/boarding schools. are you living in devonshire halls by any chance?

Reply 45

cherrypip
for the record, I just started at Leeds this year and through a series of accidental circumstances have ended up in halls where I would say that, not including the international students, 60 - 80% of the other people living there went to private schools or boarding schools.


Is this an entire hall, or some sort of subsection? That seems a staggeringly high proportion.

Reply 46

hermaphrodite
similarly the cities have areas which are densely populated with/concentrated with ethnic minorities. (leeds= roundhay, greater manchester= oldham, birmingham = small heath).


I very much presume that you're thinking of somewhere else as Roundhay is probably the most prosperous, white, middle-class, Aston Martin owning, 7-bedroomed house area of Leeds, before you get out to the real outskirts like the Golden Triangle.

Reply 47

I have found myself living in a flat of middle classes this year..i am in fact lower working class, but i dont find it an issue. There are a few cultural differences but it doesnt cause friction, and i dont get treated any differently.

I find my degree course is extremely middle class, but i guess i was pretty much expecting that.

Reply 48

Helsinki
I very much presume that you're thinking of somewhere else as Roundhay is probably the most prosperous, white, middle-class, Aston Martin owning, 7-bedroomed house area of Leeds, before you get out to the real outskirts like the Golden Triangle.


Some parts of Roundhay merge with Harehills. But the one thing i notice when i go back to Leeds is how mixed the supposed 'Asian ghettoes' are. The 7/7 bombings have led the media to characterise Leeds as a British Asian problem city. Yet nothing could be further removed from my own experiences of growing up there.

Reply 49

Gissing
Some parts of Roundhay merge with Harehills. But the one thing i notice when i go back to Leeds is how mixed the supposed 'Asian ghettoes' are. The 7/7 bombings have led the media to characterise Leeds as a British Asian problem city. Yet nothing could be further removed from my own experiences of growing up there.


It's more Oakwood next door that's a mixture between a bit posh and getting seriously sketchy towards Harehills and Chapeltown though, surely. And regardless, of all the many pooholes of Leeds to choose from, you certainly would never think of Roundhay!

Reply 50

Helsinki
It's more Oakwood next door that's a mixture between a bit posh and getting seriously sketchy towards Harehills and Chapeltown though, surely. And regardless, of all the many pooholes of Leeds to choose from, you certainly would never think of Roundhay!


You're right, but the Easterly Road area up from the Clock cinema/ Empire Direct is registered as Roundhay, even though it's miles away from Roundhay proper.

Areas with high concentrations of South Asians are not automatically impoverished ******holes, though. If you look at the University's book Twenty-First Century City, it shows that the Indian population of Leeds has quite high levels of social mobility, with a particularly successful community in Moortown. Social mobility within the Pakistani community is less pronounced. But some are the descendants of poor and illiterate Mirpuri farmers, so they were quite socially disadvantaged to begin with.

Reply 51

Helsinki
I very much presume that you're thinking of somewhere else as Roundhay is probably the most prosperous, white, middle-class, Aston Martin owning, 7-bedroomed house area of Leeds, before you get out to the real outskirts like the Golden Triangle.


Fine. Harehills then. It still emphasizes the point I was making. Similarly, instead of saying Oldham in G. Manchester I could have said Rusholme and Longsight in Manchester. It still emphasizes the point I was making

Reply 52

Well no, it can't emphasise any point if it's wrong, but never mind.

And Gissing, you're obviously very knowledgable and make some very good points. Also, I was driving through that Harehills/Oakwood/officially Roundhay area with my grandma the other day and she was pointing out to me all the places that used to be right drug dens! MY GRANDMA!

Reply 53

Helsinki
Well no, it can't emphasise any point if it's wrong, but never mind.


I'm just saying omit Roundhay and insert Harehills instaed. (similarly omit oldham and insert longsight).

Reply 54

hermaphrodite
^^^agree with the above; but some cities (and universities)are comparable to some extent??

league tables at bham.leeds and manc are more or less similar.
the inner city schools do just as crap as each other. similarly they all have their local famous public schools (MGS, LGS, KE). similarly the cities have areas which are densely populated with/concentrated with ethnic minorities. (leeds= roundhay, greater manchester= oldham, birmingham = small heath). similarly they all have affluent middle class areas (usually situated in the outskirts).

birmingham city has it's fair share of ethnic minorities and this is reflected at the local red brick campus. alot of the asian students at bham uni are from bham and commute.

manchester city has it's fair share of ethnic minorities and this is also reflected at the local red brick university. alot of the asian students commute from manchester and greater manchester to uni


yet leeds can't attract the local asian students (one doesnt encourage positive discrimination on grounds of race, only on grounds of income) from roundhay or bradford.

someone started a similar thread on the sheffield uni page. check it out.

maybe when (UK born) asian and black students visit the uni they notice the campus is predominantly white and middle class and run a mile cos they're worried that they might feel like an outcast/have trouble making friends? i don't know. i've noticed that ethnic minority groups do cluster together with fellow minorities 80% of the time (be it for whatever reason)


It might be this, but there's also the fact that Bradford uni is close by, and has a high proportion of asian students - and, as you say, the local students may feel more comfortable being somewhere where they are part of a large crowd, whereas at Leeds the white students would far outnumber them, simply because the student population will be more representative of the UK population - and not just of West Yorkshire demographics. Perhaps also that although Bradford is not generally as high as Leeds in the league tables, it's at a comparable level (closer than say, Leeds or Leeds met or Manc and Manc met) so it's not as though the students will be making a big academic sacrifice by choosing Bradford over Leeds. Also, Bradford does have a policy of trying to attract local students for some courses.

Also, not that it matters, but I don't think LGS or GSAL or whatever it's called now would be considered 'famous' :P And it's not a public school either, whereas I think Manchester Grammar is. ('Public' schools being the ones that were historically part of a particular headmasters league - the ones like Eton and Harrow and Westminster, that generally had very high standards.) I'm not trying to sound argumentative, lol, that just made me laugh because I know people from there who're from Roundhay and much worse areas like Chapeltown, Harehills, Kirkstall etc.

More to the point OP - I don't really know what the student body is like, but the city itself is very diverse!

Reply 55

hermaphrodite


yet leeds can't attract the local asian students (one doesnt encourage positive discrimination on grounds of race, only on grounds of income) from roundhay or bradford.



Why do you mention Roundhay? It's not an Asian majority area, just a wealthy part of Leeds. You must be thinking of Harehils, down the road, which is very asian-dominated.

From what I've seen there are plenty of Asian/Arab students in Leeds, as well as tonnes of Chinese, Spaniards, Yanks, Frogs etc. Most of these are probably internationals, but it all makes for a diverse atmosphere!

Leeds itself is a very multicultural city, and that includes the student areas. there are all sorts of cuisines and takeaways, and a huge variety of different types of nightlife etc. If it's more the 'public school types' you're worried about, there are plenty of them but definitely far less of that sort of atmosphere than somewhere like Leicester has. Keep away from the sailing/rugby/skiing clubs and out of the trendy bars in Headingley and you'll be fine - there are PLENTY of normal people! It's not a requirement to wear that Jack Wills ****e either :smile:

Reply 56

re -read the thread. i meant harehills - not roundhay. anyway this thread is dead now.

Reply 57

thanks to whoever gave the rep.

Reply 58

zis thread is as relevant as ever :biggrin:

Reply 59

oh, and whoever gave negative rep to me - get a life you gloomy little person. If you want to argue, do it properly.

It's a shame reputation is anonymous, people should account for their actions.