Tories put up the jobs tax

Watch
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#1
Labour are now the party of the self employed.
0
reply
Quady
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#2
Report 4 years ago
#2
Toris increasing tax on private sector workers. Party of the comrades.
0
reply
Aj12
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#3
Report 4 years ago
#3
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Labour are now the party of the self employed.
That's not how it works.

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#4
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#4
(Original post by Aj12)
That's not how it works.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Yes it is. McDonald has policies that are meant to help self employed people and those who are self employed but in reality just exploited workers like diliveroo workers etc.
0
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#5
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#5
(Original post by Quady)
Toris increasing tax on private sector workers. Party of the comrades.
As far as I was made aware socialism in on the side of workers... Private workers employed by capitalism are the bedrock of Marxism you dingbat.
0
reply
Conservationofmass
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#6
Report 4 years ago
#6
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
As far as I was made aware socialism in on the side of workers...
Considering they wanted to remain in the EU and want to continue free movement of labour, they are not on the side of the self employed lmao.
0
reply
Quady
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#7
Report 4 years ago
#7
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
As far as I was made aware socialism in on the side of workers... Private workers employed by capitalism are the bedrock of Marxism you dingbat.
So raising their tax not only undermines capitalism but Marxist ideology? Execellant!

The workers united shall never be divided!
0
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#8
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#8
(Original post by Quady)
So raising their tax not only undermines capitalism but Marxist ideology? Execellant!

The workers united shall never be divided!

I know you are an uber contrarian to the point of tedium but the premise of Marxism is that the workers have their wealth and produce stolen off of them by capitalists. In this case they are just having their income stolen off them by the state, which is an ever increasing bourgeoisie state. Sure the income generated by taxation can be used for progressive means such as the NHS which helps working people but it is also used to fund the police which stop workers from seizing the means of production. The whole point of communism is that workers are ruled by no one, neither capitalist nor state (the two are part of the same oppressive organism in Marxist theory anyway).

Marxism is not Keynesian social democracy.

The idea that increasing tax burden on private sector workers is somehow Marxist or genuinely socialist is totally wrong. This idea that socialism is just about public vs private sector is a simplistic propaganda narrative that equates socialism with boring none socialist social democracy where emphasis is put on state provided services. Labour tends to represent the interests of public sector workers since they don't want to dismantle the public sector as much as the Tories do. Hence right vs left being portrayed a public sector vs private sector by elements of the right.
0
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#9
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#9
(Original post by Conservationofmass)
Considering they wanted to remain in the EU and want to continue free movement of labour, they are not on the side of the self employed lmao.
Socialism is internationalist. That means it is against the division of mankind in terms of nation states. It is on the side of all workers. Not just the British workers. In certain socialist school of thought free movement of labour could help lead to a united states of Europe which eradicates nationality barriers which helps raise class consciousness bringing communism one step closer.

It's ok to understand what other people think. You can understand what socialism means without agreeing with it or being infected with communism cooties.
0
reply
Conservationofmass
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#10
Report 4 years ago
#10
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Socialism is internationalist. That means it is against the division of mankind in terms of nation states. It is on the side of all workers. Not just the British workers. In certain socialist school of thought free movement of labour could help lead to a united states of Europe which eradicates nationality barriers which helps raise class consciousness bringing communism one step closer.

It's ok to understand what other people think. You can understand what socialism means without agreeing with it or being infected with communism cooties.
It doesn't help the self employed... What the tories done is nothing in comparison to wanting to retain free movement, whilst labour claiming that they would help the self employed more, the damage done if they were in government would be far worse to the self employed.
0
reply
AlexanderHam
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#11
Report 4 years ago
#11
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
workers have their wealth and produce stolen off of them by capitalists
Do you think all capital accumulation and "unearned income" should be banned?

In other words, let's strip away the current context and social assumptions, and go back to a kind of "primaeval" economic situation where everyone was employed and paid exactly the same amount for their job.

Let's say, then, that some of these workers decided instead of spending all their money on consumption, to instead save it up so one day they could start a business. Or they decided to work extra hours over the 60 years of their work life and then pass on a little bit of money to their children.

Do you believe people should be allowed to work extra hours, or spend less on consumption, so they can buy/start a business with that accumulated capital, or pass it on to their children?

And if you do believe this is acceptable, where does one draw the line?
0
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#12
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#12
(Original post by AlexanderHam)
Do you think all capital accumulation and "unearned income" should be banned?
No, because there would be nothing to ban it with. It just wouldn't happen on any meaningful scale. Why would you want to accumulate capital in post scarcity communism? Maybe it would exist like like small scale craft work exists now \I dunno. How would you accumulate capital when the labouring class will not conform? It is up to the proles to decide what is possible or not.

I'm just explaining why not increasing taxing self employed and Faux self-employement, i.e. precarious work without proper labour rights, is not against the spirit of socialism. You should be supportive of this. Frame left wing politics in right wing language.

If you think the capitalist worker relationship is fine then you are by definition not a socialist. I don't like it but that does not mean I think the state be able to ban it. I would rather the workers refuse to comply.
0
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#13
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#13
(Original post by Conservationofmass)
It doesn't help the self employed... What the tories done is nothing in comparison to wanting to retain free movement, whilst labour claiming that they would help the self employed more, the damage done if they were in government would be far worse to the self employed.
Do you support striking workers and self employed diliveroo workers? Workers taking back control without going through the labour party. Polish union members. The working tube drivers should take back control and demand higher wages and strike for it.
0
reply
Aj12
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#14
Report 4 years ago
#14
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Yes it is. McDonald has policies that are meant to help self employed people and those who are self employed but in reality just exploited workers like diliveroo workers etc.
Like what?

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#15
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#15
(Original post by Aj12)
Like what?

Posted from TSR Mobile
I dunno. But not raising their taxes has gotta help. More than can be said for the Tories :')
0
reply
paul514
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#16
Report 4 years ago
#16
The only reason this is a story is because of their manifesto that let's face it was supposed to be a bargaining tool for a coalition government.

The change itself is incredibly minor and simply makes the tax system fairer and raises a small amount of revenue.

Personally because of the first sentence of what I just said I feel like this is virtue signalling


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
Aj12
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#17
Report 4 years ago
#17
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
I dunno. But not raising their taxes has gotta help. More than can be said for the Tories :'
But Labour seem to be toying with new taxes, I don't think anyone is naive enough to think we would not see larger tax rises under a Labour government.
0
reply
Conservationofmass
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#18
Report 4 years ago
#18
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Do you support striking workers and self employed diliveroo workers? Workers taking back control without going through the labour party. Polish union members. The working tube drivers should take back control and demand higher wages and strike for it.
1. You'd have to require everyone to join a trade union by law, which is unenforceable.
2. If that was the case it would be hard to find as much work as there's more people working in those sectors proportional to regional or total population.
3. They would still undercut the trade union cost anyway. Trade unions also cost m oney.
4. If you're self employed, potentially on price work, you're working for yourself.. So a trade union makes no difference.
5. Other prices are effected in the economy, more schools needed etc.
6. Just control migration, much better. Once your nation is gone, it's far easier to exploit people, especially when robots come in properly, you'll end up with a world wide government with 99 percent of people in poverty.
0
reply
Joel 96
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#19
Report 4 years ago
#19
The Tories raising tax just shows how backwards our political system is. Take every party in the UK and move them one space to the left. Labour is now borderline-communist, the Conservatives are socialist, etc.
0
reply
username1799249
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#20
Report 4 years ago
#20
(Original post by Joel 96)
The Tories raising tax just shows how backwards our political system is. Take every party in the UK and move them one space to the left. Labour is now borderline-communist, the Conservatives are socialist, etc.
The Tories have always been the party of stealth tax. When Tony Blair swept to power in 1997, one of his slogans was 22 tax rises under a Tory government. Since the Tories got into power, they have raised all sorts of taxes including VAT (17.5% to 20%) and now NI. And it isn't particularly fair. As a self employed person, you don't get sick pay or maternity pay. When I was self employed I also had to pay employers NI which was an extra £120 or so a week on top of tax and employees NI.

Given self employed people bare all the risk of the business and do not benefit from the full extent of the social state, I think it is only fair they have a discount.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

What factors affect your mental health the most right now?

Anxiousness about lockdown easing (126)
4.97%
Uncertainty around my education (373)
14.71%
Uncertainty around my future career prospects (279)
11%
Lack of purpose or motivation (356)
14.04%
Lack of support system (eg. teachers, counsellors, delays in care) (117)
4.61%
Impact of lockdown on physical health (153)
6.03%
Loneliness (217)
8.56%
Financial worries (94)
3.71%
Concern about myself or my loves ones getting/having been ill (106)
4.18%
Exposure to negative news/social media (120)
4.73%
Lack of real life entertainment (133)
5.24%
Lack of confidence in making big life decisions (222)
8.75%
Worry about missed opportunities during the pandemic (240)
9.46%

Watched Threads

View All