Do you believe there are 2 genders

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Poll: Do you believe there are only 2 genders
Yes (209)
84.27%
No (39)
15.73%
yudothis
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#181
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#181
(Original post by Lastone123)
I believe there are more than 2 genders. I don't know how many there are but the existence of people who don't neatly fit into 'girl' or 'boy', 'female' 'male', clearly demonstrates that there isn't just 2.
But that's totally fine. You don't have to act in a way that you think is "girly". In fact, it would benefit everyone hugely if that happened. But the logical conclusion of this thought is that there are 7 billion genders - everyone has their own. Everyone is different, no one fits the gender stereotype "man" or "woman" in exactly the same way.

Identity politics and intersectionalism are regressive nonsense, that are nothing but individualism that is preyed upon by narcissists who want to feel special.
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CookieButter
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#182
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#182
(Original post by robbiecee2)
Yes, I realise that now. Unfortunately I thought I could possibly bring their IQ at least above 80, but sadly not.
You set the bar too high. Wanting to raise these people's IQ above that of a goldfish with freckles is being optimistic.
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Axiomasher
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#183
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#183
(Original post by yudothis)
I agree but the whole point is that TRAs are trying to conflate the two and in fact many of them essentially already argue sex is irrelevant, and gender is what matters.
Well, my position on this is mixed. In some contexts biological sexual identity really does matter (most obviously in medical care) but in other contexts maybe not so much or not at all. If I meet a new colleague at work that happens to have been born, biologically, a man but is living now as a woman in gender terms (whether pre or post-op) then why should I have a problem with treating them at work just as if they are a woman?
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yudothis
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#184
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#184
(Original post by Axiomasher)
Well, my position on this is mixed. In some contexts biological sexual identity really does matter (most obviously in medical care) but in other contexts maybe not so much or not at all. If I meet a new colleague at work that happens to have been born, biologically, a man but is living now as a woman in gender terms (whether pre or post-op) then why should I have a problem with treating them at work just as if they are a woman?
That's not exactly the point is it? It's about accessing sex segregated spaces. Being on women's shortlists, winning women's awards, competing in women's sports.
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Captain Haddock
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#185
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#185
(Original post by CookieButter)
Nobody gives a damn about the definition that you and your marxist psychologists confer on the word "gender". Your definition is disconnected from our reality.

"Gender: A sex, male or female." Webster's 1828.
Let's take a closer look at this, shall we? First, the definition you quoted is cited as a secondary sense of the word. Second, Websters actually got this backwards. 'Gender' in the grammatical sense predates the 'sex' definition. The latter is absent from Nathen Bailey's 1756 Universal Etymological English Dictionary and, for that matter, the 1919 Concise Oxford Dictionary. The extensive 1901 Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia contains the usage, but under the caveat 'colloquial/humorous'. Additionally, it's worth noting that the primary definition found in the 1828 Websters, i.e. "kind; sort.", is qualified with 'properly'. This is consistent with Henry Fowler's assertion that gender is "a grammatical term only. To talk of persons or creatures of the masculine or feminine gender, meaning of the male or female sex, is either a jocularity (permissible or not according to context) or a blunder", from his 1926 Dictionary of Modern English Usage (Henry Watson Fowler was basically the authority on the English language). We can surmise that while the definition 'sex' was in use at the popular level, it never bore much credibility academically - and still doesn't.
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G.Y
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#186
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#186
I agree. Gender is just a made up thing. And I’m not one of those people who makes up pronouns or identifies as one of the other 61 (I think) recently made up genders. But I think that since gender is such a made up concept I don’t really see a problem with people making up their own.
Tbh I think gender will soon be eradicated anyway and there will be no stereotypes attached to either sex at all.
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G.Y
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#187
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#187
(Original post by CookieButter)
Nobody gives a damn about the definition that you and your marxist psychologists confer on the word "gender". Your definition is disconnected from our reality.



"Gender: A sex, male or female." Webster's 1828.



You are not in a position to lecture anyone on right and wrong my friend.



So much for getting schooled.



You are wasting your time with these people. Tell them the sky is blue. They will tell you its black. Tell them its black. They will tell you its blue.
Lol I see you didn’t respond to my point. And he’s using THE definition of gender. Not everything you don’t agree with is made up.
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k.n.h.
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#188
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#188
(Original post by evian1232)
I started this discussion in public and got mixed response, so what does TSR think?
I do believe there are 2 genders, yes. I personally have no idea how the concept of 'non-binary' can even be perceived by people - what would it feel like?
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Axiomasher
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#189
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#189
(Original post by yudothis)
That's not exactly the point is it? It's about accessing sex segregated spaces. Being on women's shortlists, winning women's awards, competing in women's sports.
Well, I think they need to be looked at on an issue by issue basis. I suspect, for example, most biological females don't have an issue with a trans-female using the 'ladies' toilets. As a biological male I don't have any problem with trans-males using the 'mens' bogs. That issue is even rendered obsolete where some institutions have unisex facilities.
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yudothis
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#190
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#190
(Original post by Axiomasher)
Well, I think they need to be looked at on an issue by issue basis. I suspect, for example, most biological females don't have an issue with a trans-female using the 'ladies' toilets. As a biological male I don't have any problem with trans-males using the 'mens' bogs. That issue is even rendered obsolete where some institutions have unisex facilities.
Well, some schools have introduced gender neutral toilets but the trans people refused that, they want to impose on girls.

And I don't think they do. Maybe the transsexuals of old who pass, but certainly not men who put on a dress and say they're women.
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G.Y
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#191
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#191
(Original post by yudothis)
But that's pure nonsense. You can be whatever you want to be. But pretending gender is anything but stereotypes and focusing your identity around it is crazy. Identity politics is pure horseshit. It's nothing but individualism with people making up new pronouns because obviously they are so special any other already made up pronoun doesn't fit them.

  1. I agree. Gender is just a made up thing. And I’m not one of those people who makes up pronouns or identifies as one of the other 61 (I think) recently made up genders. But if you agree that gender is a made up concept why do you have a problem with other people making up their own?
    Tbh I think gender will soon be eradicated anyway, there will be no genders at all and therefore no stereotypes attached to either sex.
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Axiomasher
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#192
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#192
(Original post by k.n.h.)
I do believe there are 2 genders, yes. I personally have no idea how the concept of 'non-binary' can even be perceived by people - what would it feel like?
Imagine that 'gender' is represented by interest in a set of toys. In western society there are recognised 'boys' toys (let's call these 'blue' toys) and recognised 'girls' toys (let's call these 'pink' toys). We encourage and and/or anticipate biological boys will play with the blue and that biological girls will play with the pink. So far so good, biological sex has a corresponding gender, it's all nice and neat. However, what if a biological boy really does want to play with pink, or wants to play with a mixture of blue and pink? What if a biological girl want s to play with toys that aren't obviously 'blue' or 'pink' but are 'yellow'? While biological sex is a binary category (setting aside people who are intersex of course) gender is a more fluid concept and open to the possibility of breaking free of the binary.
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robc2
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#193
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#193
(Original post by Axiomasher)
Well, my position on this is mixed. In some contexts biological sexual identity really does matter (most obviously in medical care) but in other contexts maybe not so much or not at all. If I meet a new colleague at work that happens to have been born, biologically, a man but is living now as a woman in gender terms (whether pre or post-op) then why should I have a problem with treating them at work just as if they are a woman?
Because they’re not.
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robc2
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#194
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#194
(Original post by Axiomasher)
Imagine that 'gender' is represented by interest in a set of toys. In western society there are recognised 'boys' toys (let's call these 'blue' toys) and recognised 'girls' toys (let's call these 'pink' toys). We encourage and and/or anticipate biological boys will play with the blue and that biological girls will play with the pink. So far so good, biological sex has a corresponding gender, it's all nice and neat. However, what if a biological boy really does want to play with pink, or wants to play with a mixture of blue and pink? What if a biological girl want s to play with toys that aren't obviously 'blue' or 'pink' but are 'yellow'? While biological sex is a binary category (setting aside people who are intersex of course) gender is a more fluid concept and open to the possibility of breaking free of the binary.
Not so much if you read Simon Baren-Cohen’s studies and many others.
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yudothis
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#195
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#195
(Original post by G.Y)
  1. I agree. Gender is just a made up thing. And I’m not one of those people who makes up pronouns or identifies as one of the other 61 (I think) recently made up genders. But if you agree that gender is a made up concept why do you have a problem with other people making up their own?
    Tbh I think gender will soon be eradicated anyway, there will be no genders at all and therefore no stereotypes attached to either sex.
I don't have a problem with people making them up. I have a problem in why they do it and what they do with it. It's pure narcissism. It's like a **** you to society, because this binary prison isn't good enough for you, so you gotta make sure everyone better call you something special. You gotta make sure everyone knows this about you as one of the first things, you center your identity around it. Sorry, but what a ****ing joke.

Also, the end result of it is 7 billion genders...
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Axiomasher
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#196
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#196
(Original post by robbiecee2)
Because they’re not.
I don't regard that as a sufficient reason.
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k.n.h.
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#197
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#197
(Original post by Axiomasher)
Imagine that 'gender' is represented by interest in a set of toys. In western society there are recognised 'boys' toys (let's call these 'blue' toys) and recognised 'girls' toys (let's call these 'pink' toys). We encourage and and/or anticipate biological boys will play with the blue and that biological girls will play with the pink. So far so good, biological sex has a corresponding gender, it's all nice and neat. However, what if a biological boy really does want to play with pink, or wants to play with a mixture of blue and pink? What if a biological girl want s to play with toys that aren't obviously 'blue' or 'pink' but are 'yellow'? While biological sex is a binary category (setting aside people who are intersex of course) gender is a more fluid concept and open to the possibility of breaking free of the binary.
That example of blue for boys and pink for girls are just stereotypes that can be independent of the boy and girl statuses? Can't someone still be female if they don't follow trends such as playing with 'boy' toys, preferring 'boy' colours? And I've seen gender that means different things to several people, so for more understanding, what does it mean to you?
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G.Y
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#198
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#198
(Original post by CookieButter)
Nobody gives a damn about the definition that you and your marxist psychologists confer on the word "gender". Your definition is disconnected from our reality.



"Gender: A sex, male or female." Webster's 1828.



You are not in a position to lecture anyone on right and wrong my friend.



So much for getting schooled.



You are wasting your time with these people. Tell them the sky is blue. They will tell you its black. Tell them its black. They will tell you its blue.
You're still on here comparing physical objective realities to a set of ideas you can't see or touch.

Gender is an IDEA, not a reality, for the last time.
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yudothis
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#199
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#199
Btw, this nonsense is "gender identity":

https://twitter.com/TPrimeDirective/...18854643740672

Coz all girls wear a bow in their hair...
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robc2
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#200
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#200
(Original post by Axiomasher)
I don't regard that as a sufficient reason.
Honestly, I don’t believe it’s in the persons best interest for us as a society (or individuals) to play into their dysphasia/delusion.
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