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Durham Applicants 2008 Thread
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tsa.ucles.org.uk/pdf/Summary%20of%20TSA%20research%20(01-06-07).pdf
tsa.ucles.org.uk/pdf/combined%20TSA%20validity%20report.pdf
and, like i said, it's far from the most important criteria. It's just used to clear away those at the bottom.
you've yet to make a good argument for personal statements as a better indicator of academic potential than pre-interview tests such as the HAT that require only minimal and non-specific prior knowldege.
oh well, at least you're not going to bring up the old cultural conditioning chestnut. But hasn't there been a lot of statistical work done that has established IQ tests as reasonably good predictors of future academic success?
tsa.ucles.org.uk/pdf/combined%20TSA%20validity%20report.pdf
and, like i said, it's far from the most important criteria. It's just used to clear away those at the bottom.
you've yet to make a good argument for personal statements as a better indicator of academic potential than pre-interview tests such as the HAT that require only minimal and non-specific prior knowldege.
Asides I study psychology at degree level. I just pay enough attention to know that a lot of it is complete and utter *******s, especially some of the theory they base IQ tests on. For example Piagetan tasks.
Durham University
Durham
made_of_fail
tsa.ucles.org.uk/pdf/Summary%20of%20TSA%20research%20(01-06-07).pdf
tsa.ucles.org.uk/pdf/combined%20TSA%20validity%20report.pdf
tsa.ucles.org.uk/pdf/combined%20TSA%20validity%20report.pdf
Did you read them before shipping them out. Firstly, the scatter diagrams show how weak the correlation is, and then they also look at the rate of getting 1st class degrees, another poor way of assessing students.
and, like i said, it's far from the most important criteria. It's just used to clear away those at the bottom.
It might catch some very good applicants in there, sounds like a pretty poor process to me.
you've yet to make a good argument for personal statements as a better indicator of academic potential than pre-interview tests such as the HAT that require only minimal and non-specific prior knowldege.
Well if you are so convinced as to how effective these tests are, why do you think every applicant does not get Mensa tested, and lob it on their PS? It might be because most admissions tutors know that they are largely useless.
oh well, at least you're not going to bring up the old cultural conditioning chestnut. But hasn't there been a lot of statistical work done that has established IQ tests as reasonably good predictors of future academic success?
You should read into the Piagetan tasks more closely, it proves that cultual conditioning is a big part. Or are you one of those people who believes white people are smarter than black people, and the rest of the bollocks that IQ tests allegedly show...
ok. i'll take your statistical analysis as authoritative and toddle off then. You're taking an introductory psychology course, so of course I should defer to your judgement on this.
Secondly, I don't buy it that the TSA is effectively an IQ test. You're full of shit on most things, so you probably are on this too. Also, you have yet to raise any substantive objections to the other subject specific tests. If private schools put as much effort into their pupils' applications as you suggest, they must surely be able to fool admissions tutors who, after all, have better things to do than carefully read applications.
Lastly, you've got me there. I admit it: black people are genetically stupider than us white folk. James Watson told me so.
Secondly, I don't buy it that the TSA is effectively an IQ test. You're full of shit on most things, so you probably are on this too. Also, you have yet to raise any substantive objections to the other subject specific tests. If private schools put as much effort into their pupils' applications as you suggest, they must surely be able to fool admissions tutors who, after all, have better things to do than carefully read applications.
Lastly, you've got me there. I admit it: black people are genetically stupider than us white folk. James Watson told me so.
Just a little break in the enthralling conversation above to say:
Unconditional for Anthropology at Collingwood!!!
Yay
Unconditional for Anthropology at Collingwood!!!
Yay
Hopping Mad Kangaroo
Anything that is different from A-levels has the problem that teachers are going to spend little or no time helping students in the vast majority of comprehensive schools. That immediately puts them at a disadvantage, when it comes to the HAT and so on.
Have you seen the HAT test? It's designed like the LNAT and BMAT. The whole point of it is that, unlike A-levels, it's virtually impossible to groom someone for it. That's [partly] why it's been introduced. Your bitterness at being rejected blinds you to everything good Oxford does. They want to get the best candidates. The HAT tests helps such intelligent candidates. It makes the admissions process fairer. It's not perfect by any means, but it certainly helps those who are intelligent rather than purely eloquent. I’m doing History and Durham and I wish they adopted the test (like, afaik, they’re contemplating).
As for the PS, good ones have a nice set original ideas in. Thats how the admissions tutors know if people have written their statements themselves. Asides, how do you that teachers etc dont wonder around helping people through the HAT in the actual exam, in some schools?
You don't for sure. Just like you don't know with A-levels. Given the nature of the HAT and the lack of 'correct' answers and lack of specific facts needed, unless a teacher practically dictated what to write, it'd be quite hard to help. The teacher would have had to read the whole test (inc. all the extracts) and then the students’ answers. There’s no particular reason why a teacher at a private school would risk sacrificing their career any more than a teacher at a comp.
KiwiBaby
Just a little break in the enthralling conversation above to say:
Unconditional for Anthropology at Collingwood!!!
Yay
Unconditional for Anthropology at Collingwood!!!
Yay
Yay, well done.
Guys, can we stop the arguing please. Let's just accept that all admissions systems are flawed. For anything else to happen would need far more money and time than any university is going to be able to give.
KiwiBaby
Just a little break in the enthralling conversation above to say:
Unconditional for Anthropology at Collingwood!!!
Yay
Unconditional for Anthropology at Collingwood!!!
Yay
Woo! Congrats
Where does Durham rank in your choices then? Ugh Im so jealous of the unconditional, I still have to get the grades!
Well, that's me conclusively beaten there! The HAT doesn't make Oxford admissions fairer (quite the opposite), HMK isn't bitter about being rejected, Oxford tutors deliberately seek out students they can ignore and private school teachers get promoted for cheating during HAT tests!
[back to what this thread is for]
Who's hoping to be a History fresher next year? My advice is go to the informal History talk/party. Sounds lame, is in freshers' week etc. but... it's free wine (with tutors!)
Also, any politics freshers? Hope you weren't put off by the open day talks. The lectures, in my experience, are nothing like those.
[back to what this thread is for]
Who's hoping to be a History fresher next year? My advice is go to the informal History talk/party. Sounds lame, is in freshers' week etc. but... it's free wine (with tutors!)
Also, any politics freshers? Hope you weren't put off by the open day talks. The lectures, in my experience, are nothing like those.
LieDown
Woo! Congrats Where does Durham rank in your choices then?
Ugh Im so jealous of the unconditional, I still have to get the grades!
Where does Durham rank in your choices then? Ugh Im so jealous of the unconditional, I still have to get the grades!
I'm pretty sure I'm going to accept! I'm a bit nervous about turning down UCL since it's reputation seems to be a lot better than Durham's, but I love the look of the course at Durham and I love love love the collegiate system. So yup, Durham it most probably will be!!
Wez
Well, that's me conclusively beaten there! The HAT doesn't make Oxford admissions fairer (quite the opposite), HMK isn't bitter about being rejected, Oxford tutors deliberately seek out students they can ignore and private school teachers get promoted for cheating during HAT tests!
makes memo to self to give rep for that asap...
My advice is go to the informal History talk/party. Sounds lame, is in freshers' week etc. but... it's free wine (with tutors!)
I'd advise this whatever the subject. Especially for Archaeology
Kiwi, don't worry. I turned down UCL for here, and haven't regretted it.
Aula
Yay, well done.
Thank you!
KiwiBaby
I'm pretty sure I'm going to accept! I'm a bit nervous about turning down UCL since it's reputation seems to be a lot better than Durham's, but I love the look of the course at Durham and I love love love the collegiate system. So yup, Durham it most probably will be!!
Its the colleges and the course that are really pulling me towards Durham too! And it does have a very good reputation apparently, even if it may be slightly less so than UCLs.
Everytime I think about it I get more and more excited and less nervous about it so I guess that's a sign, considering I'm the kind of person who is nervous and worries over everything!!
Congrats with all your offers though, particularly UCL, that's tough to get into!
Ah so you will be at Collingwood, a neighbour then!
I never realised Grey and Collingwood were actually close together until I went to the open day and practically walked the entire length of Durham trying to find various places! 
LieDown
Ah so you will be at Collingwood, a neighbour then! I never realised Grey and Collingwood were actually close together until I went to the open day and practically walked the entire length of Durham trying to find various places!
I never realised Grey and Collingwood were actually close together until I went to the open day and practically walked the entire length of Durham trying to find various places! Omg we could be like walking buddies to lectures and stuff! Haha
I'm a bit worried because the Anth department seems to be quite far away from Collingwood.... Although Durham isn't too big is it? 
KiwiBaby
Omg we could be like walking buddies to lectures and stuff! Haha I'm a bit worried because the Anth department seems to be quite far away from Collingwood.... Although Durham isn't too big is it?
I'm a bit worried because the Anth department seems to be quite far away from Collingwood.... Although Durham isn't too big is it? It's about the same distance as the Law department is from Collingwood. You should be able to walk to your department in 15-25 minutes, depending on your walking speed. And congratulations on getting in! I'll be seeing you in October then, given that we're in the same college.
Oxbridge, Durham, every other uni in the country: all have flaws in their admissions processes. It's a shame, but one has to be fatalistic. Some people get into Oxbridge and get rejected from everywhere else and vice versa.
Having taken both the HAT and ELAT I'd say they're a pretty good way of filtering out applicants (I would say that though as I did well in both, so maybe some vague hope in me that I'm not that bad at History and English!) BUT Oxy also tells porky-pies when it says it will interview people with a certain score - they don't, I got the score they said they'd interview over and they didn't bother because (when I grilled them!) my school had given no reason for me resitting a module. Also all this encouraging state schoolers/ different background folk/ people with bad grades to apply, very admirable but sadly still not quite working. The only people I know who got into Oxbridge were unfortunately the ones from the bigger public schools or who got specific private tuition. The system isn't always fair: I know people who have gone to schools where a kid was stabbed outside their classroom and still got pretty amazing grades, yet weren't even interviewed whilst people who went to incredible schools since the age of 8 with only slightly better grades were interviewed and got in. Having said that, how can it be fair? Oxbridge takes what it deems to be the most worthy candidates. But how we all assess that differs from person to person. To put it bluntly most of the time Oxbridge gets it right. So does Durham.
One thing I never get: Why do unsuccessful applicants moan on and on about their rejection and then slag off Durham? If you hated it so much and thought it was so terrible - you shouldn't be that sad about the rejection!
Now all cheer up
Having taken both the HAT and ELAT I'd say they're a pretty good way of filtering out applicants (I would say that though as I did well in both, so maybe some vague hope in me that I'm not that bad at History and English!) BUT Oxy also tells porky-pies when it says it will interview people with a certain score - they don't, I got the score they said they'd interview over and they didn't bother because (when I grilled them!) my school had given no reason for me resitting a module. Also all this encouraging state schoolers/ different background folk/ people with bad grades to apply, very admirable but sadly still not quite working. The only people I know who got into Oxbridge were unfortunately the ones from the bigger public schools or who got specific private tuition. The system isn't always fair: I know people who have gone to schools where a kid was stabbed outside their classroom and still got pretty amazing grades, yet weren't even interviewed whilst people who went to incredible schools since the age of 8 with only slightly better grades were interviewed and got in. Having said that, how can it be fair? Oxbridge takes what it deems to be the most worthy candidates. But how we all assess that differs from person to person. To put it bluntly most of the time Oxbridge gets it right. So does Durham.
One thing I never get: Why do unsuccessful applicants moan on and on about their rejection and then slag off Durham? If you hated it so much and thought it was so terrible - you shouldn't be that sad about the rejection!
Now all cheer up
KiwiBaby
Omg we could be like walking buddies to lectures and stuff! Haha I'm a bit worried because the Anth department seems to be quite far away from Collingwood.... Although Durham isn't too big is it?
I'm a bit worried because the Anth department seems to be quite far away from Collingwood.... Although Durham isn't too big is it? Ooh yeah that'd be grea we could both get really, really lost together! haha
Ahhhhh see I was worried about this too. But then when I went to the open day they told us they are moving the anth department to the archeology building, which is on the science site! Therefore our two colleges are really, really close to the anth department now!
Anyway, Durham really isn't that big. Its jsut that collingwood and Grey are on a hill....although Grey isnt' as far up it
Wez
Have you seen the HAT test? It's designed like the LNAT and BMAT. The whole point of it is that, unlike A-levels, it's virtually impossible to groom someone for it. That's [partly] why it's been introduced. Your bitterness at being rejected blinds you to everything good Oxford does. They want to get the best candidates. The HAT tests helps such intelligent candidates. It makes the admissions process fairer. It's not perfect by any means, but it certainly helps those who are intelligent rather than purely eloquent. I’m doing History and Durham and I wish they adopted the test (like, afaik, they’re contemplating).
Agreed. The HAT rewards preparation far less than A levels. At my (private) school, I was told not to even bother preparing for it as its so random, and that was totally correct. All admission systems have their flaws, but I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at here HMK.
Aphrodite007
Agreed. The HAT rewards preparation far less than A levels. At my (private) school, I was told not to even bother preparing for it as its so random, and that was totally correct. All admission systems have their flaws, but I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at here HMK.
007, what college did you apply to at Ox? I was pretty peeved I didn't get in, becuase the course looks absolutely fantastic., although I would prefer it to be more political, not that it matters. I expected to get rejected becuase of a lack of A-level History on my UCAS form but what the heck, worth a bolt. Apparently, it's the second toughest course to achieve an offer for,(15%) just above medicine which is 14%. Did you get interviewed at two colleges?
Ahah, History. You're gonna love it when you'll go to Science-Po. I just hope you won't have to learn our Terminale program, because to be honest, a whole year is just not enough. It is way too long, lol.
But what exactly is a PPE degree ?
I know you study Politics, Philosophy and Economics, but to do what, later ?
But what exactly is a PPE degree ?
I know you study Politics, Philosophy and Economics, but to do what, later ?
Anatheme
Ahah, History. You're gonna love it when you'll go to Science-Po. I just hope you won't have to learn our Terminale program, because to be honest, a whole year is just not enough. It is way too long, lol.
But what exactly is a PPE degree ?
I know you study Politics, Philosophy and Economics, but to do what, later ?
But what exactly is a PPE degree ?
I know you study Politics, Philosophy and Economics, but to do what, later ?
I take it from that it's tres difficult. Why two warnings?
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