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Reply 100
ColdFire
you are blinded by your religion and it will be your downfall


no i'm not .. i'm quiet sure .. i'll present some scientific eviedences to prove islam right and i hope you will be following
thanks for passing anyway
Reply 101
AmOM3536
don't tell me you don't pass through hard times when you feel it is the end and you don't find anybody around you, it is very great to feel that you are not alone ant that there A God to Whom you can open your heart


There is great strength to be found in independence and as i already stated my friends, family and other pleasures in life reassure me enough already during such times.

Have you ever considered not being a Muslim? Do you not feel your faith may limit and close your mind to new realms, possibilities and ways of thinking?
Reply 102
an Siarach
Actually what you describe there is Christian belief as well, unless youve decided not to consider every episcopal (which is to say the various Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican comunions) denomination - which just happen to make up the vast majority of the christian populace - as being 'christian', which is quite a different area!


actually, i am an anglican, and it is NOT a christian belief that man can earn God's favour...christianity recognises the fact that, irrespective of his actions, man can never reach God purely by his own merit (ever hear of the Tower of Babyl?) which is why it was neccessary to send Jesus.

We are supposed to do good things purely out of love for others (the second greatest command in the bible is to 'love your neighbour as yourself') whereas in Islam you do good things to earn favour in the eyes of God for yourself.

Quite a big difference.
grace
actually, i am an anglican, and it is NOT a christian belief that man can earn God's favour...christianity recognises the fact that, irrespective of his actions, man can never reach God purely by his own merit (ever hear of the Tower of Babyl?) which is why it was neccessary to send Jesus.

We are supposed to do good things purely out of love for others (the second greatest command in the bible is to 'love your neighbour as yourself') whereas in Islam you do good things to earn favour in the eyes of God for yourself.

Quite a big difference.


Ah i see, the way in which you worded that previously had me thinking you were something of a calvinist - everyone is predestined and the quality of life they lead is irrelevant. I understand what youre getting at now.
Reply 104
an Siarach
Ah i see, the way in which you worded that previously had me thinking you were something of a calvinist - everyone is predestined and the quality of life they lead is irrelevant. I understand what youre getting at now.



nope, not a calvanist, quite a conservative anglican. But never the less, i have faith..but i don't try to shove things down people's throats.

I think it's important to be well-informed about religions, and personally i have read the Quaran but i think Islaam is quite a selfish religion.
Reply 105
randdom
Why is that so strange. Like I have said before I have always believed in God I just didn't find the right religion for a long time.


THis is what's funny about religion. YOU ARE SEARCHING FOR ONE!
It's this that makes it so wrong.

Scientists don't browse through current theories, and pick one that fits their personal WANT the best. They pick the one that they believe is right based on evidence. And also not the one that has most current people working on it (like people becoming Muslims because lots of other people are Muslims - "that many people can't be wrong" - one of the most hilariously weak arguments I've ever seen)

If everyone was like them, we'd all be atheist.
Reply 106
mik1a
THis is what's funny about religion. YOU ARE SEARCHING FOR ONE!
It's this that makes it so wrong


goodness, that is one of the strangest concepts i've ever heard. Is it "wrong" to search for a cure for cancer?! Ever hear of 'corruption'? Corruption is why it's neccessary to search. That, and a little thing called 'freewill'.
Reply 107
grace
goodness, that is one of the strangest concepts i've ever heard. Is it "wrong" to search for a cure for cancer?! Ever hear of 'corruption'? Corruption is why it's neccessary to search. That, and a little thing called 'freewill'.


You completely missed my point.. corruption ?

If you believe in something why should you have to search? To check you are right? Because, as humans, we want to have common beliefs?

Surely something so easily chosen such as religion, and chosen on what may even be a whim, cannot be the scientific truth.
Reply 108
mik1a
You completely missed my point.. corruption ?

If you believe in something why should you have to search? To check you are right? Because, as humans, we want to have common beliefs?

Surely something so easily chosen such as religion, and chosen on what may even be a whim, cannot be the scientific truth.


The theory of corruption states that it is sin which has seperated man from God...as such, it is neccessary to 'search' rather than being born into a true relationship with him.

I think you have quite immature views on religion if you think they are chosen 'easily' and 'on a whim'...

You weren't just born believing in evolution, you had to first be taught it, or read it for yourself. People aren't BORN with knowledge, but they are born with curiosity and it is that which propells them to search.
Reply 109
Religion is rarely chosen. More often than not it is something you are born into. Statistically if your parents are followers of a religion then you will follow in their footsteps. Of course there are exceptions, but they are a rarity.
Reply 110
AntiMagicMan
Religion is rarely chosen. More often than not it is something you are born into. Statistically if your parents are followers of a religion then you will follow in their footsteps. Of course there are exceptions, but they are a rarity.



most of the christians i know come from atheist families. But i do agree, it's a lot easier to stay in a religion if you have the support from your family (or, in the instance of islaam, you will be ostracised if you leave).

I don't think it's quite correct to say that it's 'rarely' chosen...it's often chosen.
AntiMagicMan
Religion is rarely chosen. More often than not it is something you are born into. Statistically if your parents are followers of a religion then you will follow in their footsteps. Of course there are exceptions, but they are a rarity.


Exactly so. If noone was exposed to religion until they were of an age to treat it maturely (18+ say),rather than suffer indoctrination from the day theyre born then the numbers of the faithful would be infinitely smaller.
Reply 112
Dajo123
There is great strength to be found in independence and as i already stated my friends, family and other pleasures in life reassure me enough already during such times.

Have you ever considered not being a Muslim? Do you not feel your faith may limit and close your mind to new realms, possibilities and ways of thinking?


in fact no, everyday i discover something new about how much great my religion is and i feel how small i am .. i wish if all people can see and feel this greatness .. i promise that very soon i'll present some of the evidences that i collected but i'm still working on it to be brief so all the members won't feel bored reading them
Allah cant count, I have proof.. Explain why all knowing allah cant count ?
Reply 114
AmOM3536
in fact no, everyday i discover something new about how much great my religion is and i feel how small i am .. i wish if all people can see and feel this greatness .. i promise that very soon i'll present some of the evidences that i collected but i'm still working on it to be brief so all the members won't feel bored reading them


I look forward to it with baited breath :rolleyes:
Reply 115
Investmentboy
Allah cant count, I have proof.. Explain why all knowing allah cant count ?


simple, it said so in the qu'ran which is the word of god therefore its true
lets all believe what some lonely fanatic wrote down 150 generations ago
and in doing so, undermine the hard work of all science bt preaching it to others
Reply 116
irisng
So have you found God over the years? You seem to have been searching.


Yes I have found what I percieve to be god. And I did spend a long time looking. I firmly believe that all religions worship the same god in the way that they see fit. My personal belief is that god is a power for god that is not really controlling but is good. Now different people in different parts of the world have all developed different ways of worshiping that god and have ways and scriptures which present gods message. Now people will have different takes on it because the different religions formed hundereds if not thousands of years apart. I believe that if you lead a good life it doesn't matter is you are a Jew, Muslim, Christian, Buddest or any other religion for that matter nothing bad will happen to you when you die. I am not sure if I believe in the concept of hell either, but that is another story. The religion I found was paganism (wicca to be exact) but that doesn't mean that I feel that other religions are wronge. I think that fighting over religion is needless.

Like I have said this is only what I believe I don't expect other people to agree with me.
Reply 117
Buhddists don't believe in god I don't think.
Reply 118
mik1a
Buhddists don't believe in god I don't think.

Ok well religions generally.
Reply 119
Not impressed with what I've read thus far in the thread:

an Siarach
To answer the thread title:

I am not a muslim for the same reason i am not a christian, a jew or a member of any other similiar belief system. Without going into detail on the numerous historical contradictions, innacuracies and morally reprehensive teachings found in the central book of each religion the laughable number of contradictary attributes ascribed to the God they worship stops me from giving it any greater consideration.

Which is fair enough; but when a member states she is a Muslim, querying whether this is a problem, I'd appreciate it if the smug, know-it-all atheists of the forum didn't follow with remarks which demonstrate not knowledge or a valid viewpoint (such as the one above), but only ignorance and disrespect. There were several point where I felt like dishing out neg rep, but since I can only do it once, I will instead name and shame...
an Siarach
:frown: If you were only to downgrade him in your estimation to the status of 'prophet' you could quite happily be a muslim.

Which means you've missed the whole point of the Christian faith. Jesus cannot be downgraded.
AntiMagicMan
But that raises an interesting point. If god himself reveals himself to you, you are quite clearly insane. Yet many people will happily believe the testimony of people who have personally had god reveal himself to them. Therefore we can conclude that all religions follow the teachings of madmen.

No it doesn't. It proves that you can make up an argument based solely on your own opinion. If God presents himself to you, and the experience is veridical, then you see God. I don't see where you can honestly go wrong.
mik1a
You can convince yourself, like every theist does.
an Siarach
You may as well worship the LOTR trilogy.

More smug atheist smart-alecs.
an Siarach
It doesnt have any contradictions because it is the word of God. We know it is the word of God because it states so itself. We know it is valid because it is the word of God...

Thats nothing more than a convoluted way of spelling "bullshit."
Here's one where you could try using some knowledge. You only exist because you percieve you do, remember?
an Siarach
People can base their lives on any fantasy they wish so long as they dont shove it down my throat.

So you feel religion is being shoved down your throat now? Why not then leave the thread if you feel it is no longer worth discussing. This girl comes on explaining that she doesn't want to be isolated because she's a Muslim, and then you accuse her of shoving beliefs down your throat (and don't deny it because thats the implication that is made). How selfish.
MuniE
ya true but i just like arguing with religious people because in the end they just yell at you and say your going to hell

Yet again not actually based on fact.
mik1a
"don't tell me you think we are here by accident"

Wtf.. you are so far behind. God created people.. what a lovely fantasy. Evolution has been a well established scientific theory for a long time.. perhaps not as long as religion, which was invented by some people a long long time before anyone knew genes existed.

Funny... I've never heard an answer to this question.. who made God? If God made everything, what did he make it out of? And what made him? Or maybe he won't tell you. See this is why the "god" argument has so little credibility in the real world of science where people make theories BASED ON EVIDENCE.

Or maybe he doesn't exist? :eek:

Again, another assertion made without any real knowledge. So, point by point: 1) Creationists are ignorant and very much in the minority. Genesis "should" (and I use this word carefully) be interpreted as a poetic interpretation of the fundamental link between God and his people, establishing that without the existence of God, people could not exist. 2) Who made God? No-one did! God exists (if he exists at all) necessarily. That is to say that God cannot just come in and out of existence, he either exists or does not. God exists (again if at all) outside the bounds of time and space. Our existence is contingent to his.

Your knowledge (if you can call it that) is so simplistic as to be the level of a child. Get a grip and think before you speak.
MuniE
this thread has awakened my hate for religous ppl, sorry but its true

Well this thread has reawakened my hatred for ignorant people, especially atheists who think they have all the answers.
mik1a
You haven't responded to anything I said.

But I have.
feedtheflamingo
Many Christians, such as myself, accept evolution. Back 2000 years ago, it would have been pretty hard to explain evolution to the people of the middle east! Hence the writings in the Bible. Both explainations point back to the saem thing - God set the ball rolling.
Indeed. Thats a reasoned belief, something I don't think you could come to without pulling your head from inside your ass, Mik1a.
an Siarach
The God to which youre referring for evolution is not the Christian or religious God however.
?
Your simplistic arguments against evolution may well fool a moron or someone who knows nothing about evolution. But anyone who has actually studied evolution knows that you are talking crap.

Justification??
an Siarach
And where did God come from? Its a meaningless question as it cannot be answered fully. To believe a God created all the matter is no more valid a theory than that of all matter having been in existence for all time.

Probably the most sensible thing said yet. However, this means that you can neither prove nor disproved God. However, there are several things (and I can go into more detail) which can make the existence of God seem more likely than not.
an Siarach
A God yes,one to whom the only attribute you can ascribe is that of the creator. Not the Christian/Muslim/Jewish God however because none of those deities can exist as they are illogical.

Again, your justification for this?
MuniE
amom you are perhaps the most annoying person i have ever seen...... stop trying to shove your religion down our throats and get the fact that some people don't believe in god let alone the teachings of the quran

Ermmm..this is a debate forum!! She's not evangelising, she's trying to justify her points, something you atheists haven't even begun to do. If you're so convinced that you can't be converted, don't post!
AntiMagicMan
Religion is rarely chosen. More often than not it is something you are born into. Statistically if your parents are followers of a religion then you will follow in their footsteps. Of course there are exceptions, but they are a rarity.

That's social science, not proof that God doesn't exist.

I'm sorry I've made such a long post, it's what you get when you come home from work to find morons have taken the forum over. Please think before you post, justify all points adequatly, and don't just bash other people's religions. Lastly, thanks for reading this, and feel free to challenge ANY of the points that I raise.

To clarify, I am absolutely agnosticated by the whole debate. That is to say, I'm open to ideas about theism, but don't follow one religion in particular (or even am certain if God exists!).

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