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    (Original post by carldaman)
    Which means you've missed the whole point of the Christian faith. Jesus cannot be downgraded.
    Though of the eighty or so gospels written, only a handful made it into Emporer Constantine's bible. These all protrayed, or could be contrived to portray Jesus as a divine being.

    Many of the rest were destroyed, but those that have been found and deciphered protray him as a mortal man - he was considered very important but he was, after all, the rightful King of the Jews, coming from the house of David, the line of Soloman.

    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    Though of the eighty or so gospels written, only a handful made it into Emporer Constantine's bible. These all protrayed, or could be contrived to portray Jesus as a divine being.

    Many of the rest were destroyed, but those that have been found and deciphered protray him as a mortal man - he was considered very important but he was, after all, the rightful King of the Jews, coming from the house of David, the line of Soloman.
    Not really.

    You are correct to say that there were many Gospels. However many of the Gospels that were lost have now been found. These Gnostic Gospels actually present Christ as entirely divine and not human, just as Paul’s epistles (the earliest Christian writings (Paul’s Epistles) only describe Christ as a divine being in the heavens, not as a 1st century Jew in Palestine – only later did the mystery of Christ become the mythos of Jesus – and the earliest Gospels – Q, Thomas – are a codex of mystical insights, not events).

    It is interesting to note that the 2nd century Johannine Epistles, which became part of the Bible from the 4th century, attack those who deny ‘Christ came in the flesh’ i.e. those who deny that he was a historical person.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Not really.

    You are correct to say that there were many Gospels. However many of the Gospels that were lost have now been found. These Gnostic Gospels actually present Christ as entirely divine and not human, just as Paul’s epistles (the earliest Christian writings (Paul’s Epistles) only describe Christ as a divine being in the heavens, not as a 1st century Jew in Palestine – only later did the mystery of Christ become the mythos of Jesus – and the earliest Gospels – Q, Thomas – are a codex of mystical insights, not events).

    It is interesting to note that the 2nd century Johannine Epistles, which became part of the Bible from the 4th century, attack those who deny ‘Christ came in the flesh’ i.e. deny that he was a historical person.
    A lot of the gosples haven't been found, though this, of course, proves nothing, as without them we don't know the content.

    But it is certain Emporer Constantine gave birth to the Roman Catholic Church - principly by merging the two main religions in Rome at the time - the main Pagan religion and the Christian religion.

    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    A lot of the gosples haven't been found, though this, of course, proves nothing, as without them we don't know the content.

    But it is certain Emporer Constantine gave birth to the Roman Catholic Church - principly by merging the two main religions in Rome at the time - the main Pagan religion and the Christian religion.
    Off the top of my head, the following lost Gospels have now been found:

    Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Philip, Gospel of the Egyptians, Gospel of Truth, and the Gospel of Nicodemus.

    In addition we have quotes of other Gospels Church preserved in the writings of the church fathers.

    And as for your claim that Constantine created the Catholic Church this, of course, is nonsense. Certainly he began the process of turning it into an Imperial institution but the catholic church existed from the early second century (read, for example, Ignatius).
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Off the top of my head, the following lost Gospels have now been found:

    Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Philip, Gospel of the Egyptians, Gospel of Truth, and the Gospel of Nicodemus.

    In addition we have quotes of other Gospels Church preserved in the writings of the church fathers.

    And as for your claim that Constantine created the Catholic Church this, of course, is nonsense. Certainly he began the process of turning it into an Imperial institution but the catholic church existed from the early second century (read, for example, Ignatius).
    By merging the Christian and Pagan religions Constantine created the Roman Catholic Church which was for centuries the only earthly vessel for praising the Christian faith and is still the most powerful.

    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    By merging the Christian and Pagan religions Constantine created the Roman Catholic Church which was for centuries the only earthly vessel for praising the Christian faith and is still the most powerful.
    Christianity is pagan. It’s the old mystery “son of god dying on a t-cross and rising on the third day” and all the old pagan rites of baptism etc. It didn’t need to be paganised by Constantine – it is pagan with a Jewish dress.
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    (Original post by Biggles)
    Christianity is pagan. It’s the old mystery “son of god dying on a t-cross and rising on the third day” and all the old pagan rites of baptism etc. It didn’t need to be paganised by Constantine – it is pagan with a Jewish dress.
    But it was Constantine who actually did a lot of the merging to stop Rome from splitting down the middle, though you are correct that Christinity had many Pagan roots anyway.
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    (Original post by carldaman)
    Which is fair enough; but when a member states she is a Muslim, querying whether this is a problem, I'd appreciate it if the smug, know-it-all atheists of the forum didn't follow with remarks which demonstrate not knowledge or a valid viewpoint (such as the one above), but only ignorance and disrespect. There were several point where I felt like dishing out neg rep, but since I can only do it once, I will instead name and shame...
    They asked why i wasnt a muslim. I answered.
    (Original post by carldaman)
    Which means you've missed the whole point of the Christian faith. Jesus cannot be downgraded.
    I thought it was fairly obvious i was being, how shall i say,a bit jovial there?
    (Original post by carldaman)
    More smug atheist smart-alecs.
    Yawn.
    (Original post by carldaman)
    So you feel religion is being shoved down your throat now? Why not then leave the thread if you feel it is no longer worth discussing. This girl comes on explaining that she doesn't want to be isolated because she's a Muslim, and then you accuse her of shoving beliefs down your throat (and don't deny it because thats the implication that is made). How selfish.
    The statement was quite obviously one referring to life in general and not this thread specifically.
    (Original post by carldaman)
    Justification??
    It follows!
    (Original post by carldaman)
    Probably the most sensible thing said yet. However, this means that you can neither prove nor disproved God. However, there are several things (and I can go into more detail) which can make the existence of God seem more likely than not.
    As above, the God which cannot be disproved is not the God of any of the 3 major religions of the book.
    (Original post by carldaman)
    Again, your justification for this?
    My justification is in there...
    (Original post by carldaman)
    Ermmm..this is a debate forum!! She's not evangelising, she's trying to justify her points, something you atheists haven't even begun to do. If you're so convinced that you can't be converted, don't post!
    That's social science, not proof that God doesn't exist.
    Quite right.
    (Original post by carldaman)
    I'm sorry I've made such a long post.
    Well it took my mind off work for a while if nothing else (i didnt realise i was an athiest though)
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    (Original post by an Siarach)
    As above, the God which cannot be disproved is not the God of any of the 3 major religions of the book.
    I know what your getting at. You're saying that the God which you reach from "arguments" for the existence of God does not reflect the characteristics of the God of the major religions. My religious studies teacher explained this way:

    At the time when many of the arguments were made, especially at the time of Aquinas and David Hume, belief in God was taken for granted. However, the arguments could be used to make what seems to be blind faith reasonable and rational, as they make it seem more likely than not that God can exist. The arguments by no means prove that a theistic God exists, but they provide a starting point for belief in God, which can be built on by religion, whether it be revealed theology, religious experience, or whatever else.

    (i didnt realise i was an athiest though)
    Your militancy towards religion and religious ideas would demonstrate otherwise.
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    (Original post by carldaman)
    Your militancy towards religion and religious ideas would demonstrate otherwise.
    LOL yeah im a real froth at the mouther when it comes to you filthy theists. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by an Siarach)
    LOL yeah im a real froth at the mouther when it comes to you filthy theists. :rolleyes:
    Have you even read what you posted?!? I'm not going to get into a personal argument, so I'm only going to reply to reasonable posts. And I'm not finding any from you, an Siarach.
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    (Original post by carldaman)
    Have you even read what you posted?!? I'm not going to get into a personal argument, so I'm only going to reply to reasonable posts. And I'm not finding any from you, an Siarach.
    Youre the funniest fellow to come along since Outrageous.
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    (Original post by an Siarach)
    Youre the funniest fellow to come along since Outrageous.
    Why thank you. If you think reasonable debate is funny, perhaps I should be a comedian. I think Outrageous is also a good debater. Perhaps we could be the next Baddiel and Skinner.
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    Hmmm, I dont believe in islam and have proof to discredit the whole affair
 
 
 
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