British Muslim protest Westminster attack "Not in our name"

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The KKK haven't killed anyone in 40 years. Holocaust was over 70 years ago. Next you're gonna mention the crusades. Anyway do you actually think He means haven't had to apologize for the holocaust. Or white people aren't associated with the KKK? Have you heard all the white privilege stuff from america. And if you'd remember correctly. It was the Northern American white men who fought a horrifying civil war against the south to end slavery. They could've said it wasn't their problem too and it wasn't in their name

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 41

yeled ez

Original post by QE2

I think I may be able to help you understand.
1. No one is saying that all Muslims are responsible for this (or any other) attack. However, it seems reasonable that Islamic ideology had a part to play.

3. If you share the same ideology that the attackers use to motivate and justify their attacks, then there is a causal connection. If you share the same skin colour as the attacker, there is no causal connection.

You've confused the **** out of me. Whats the connection and what have they caused?

Reply 42

QE2

Original post by yeled ez

You've confused the **** out of me. Whats the connection and what have they caused?

Person A says that Ideology X obliges them to use violence because of certain passages in Book Z, and Book Z is perfect and must be followed in its entirety.

Person B also follows Ideology X and claims Book Z is perfect and must be followed in its entirety, but says that the obligation to use violence only applied to certain historical events.

Ideology X is a major cause of Person A's actions.
The ideology of Person A and Person B is the same apart from minor differences in historical relativism.

Reply 43

TheBBQ

Original post by Dodgypirate

Who are they to tell us who is a true Muslim and who isn't, what authority do they have?

ISIS fighters do most the stuff ordinary Muslims do, besides killing people, obviously.

If a Christian sect were roaming around murdering innocents indiscriminately, I'd still consider them Christians.

****ing absurd.

This. They believe their religion is flawless and do not want to tackle issues in their own community, they simply just say they aren't muslims.

Reply 44

Alpha-tega

Original post by Dodgypirate

ISIS shouldn't even be called "Muslims". Read things about Islam then try and compare the 2. They're nothing compared to them.

Reply 45

QE2

Original post by Alpha-tega

ISIS shouldn't even be called "Muslims". Read things about Islam then try and compare the 2. They're nothing compared to them.

What do ISIS do that makes them "not Muslim"?

Reply 46

yeled ez

Original post by QE2

Ok so Person A and Person B are connected through Book Z but what does it cause?

Reply 47

Alpha-tega

It really is sad to see how blind people really are. There are 1.6 BILLION Muslims and around 80 million ISIS supporters (apparently). Yet the minority seems to be representing the Whole of Islam when in reality, they don't represent my left nutsack

Reply 48

QE2

Original post by yeled ez

Ok so Person A and Person B are connected through Book Z but what does it cause?

Person A used passages from it to justify using violence against a certain group.

Reply 49

yeled ez

Original post by QE2

Person A used passages from it to justify using violence against a certain group.

All because Person B reads passages from it and doesn't use it to justify using violence? :s-smilie:

Reply 50

Alpha-tega

Original post by QE2

What do ISIS do that makes them "not Muslim"?

ISIS Don't follow the actual rules of Islam, They've literally created their own version of "islam" with just ****ed up intentions. I mean It's just absolutely disgusting, the thought of killing people because they don't believe in the same god as yours. no one is in ANY position to tell someone they believe in the wrong thing, let alone Harming them.

Reply 51

Alpha-tega

Original post by QE2

Person A used passages from it to justify using violence against a certain group.

Also, you don't see 1.6 billion people going around trying to murder people. It's the minority representing the majority because they're literally mind-****ed. I actually want to know what's going through their minds because in all honesty, it really is crazy.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 52

Dara Dahl

Original post by Alpha-tega

ISIS Don't follow the actual rules of Islam, They've literally created their own version of "islam" with just ****ed up intentions.

To the majority of the world that doesn't believe in Islam, there is no "actual" Islam. It's all made up. It's a man-made ideology that is so dangerously open to interpretation, especially when violence and divisiveness comprises such a large portion of its scriptures.

Reply 53

QE2

Original post by Alpha-tega

With all due respect, it is you who seems unable or unwilling to see the complete picture.

No one is claiming that ISIS represents the whole of Islam. Like the claim that people say "all Muslims are terrorists", these are claims that are only made by Islamic apologists when constructing a straw man.

ISIS represents a particular interpretation of Islam. That is all.
It is a minority interpretation based on the rejection of any modernisation or revisionism. Their claim is no more complex than "When Allah says X, he means X, and he means it forever".
They claim that the modernist approach of "When Allah says X, he means Y, and only in the past" is a corruption of true Islam. In much the same way that modernist Muslims claim that ISIS's literalist approach is a corruption of true Islam.

Think of it like a family court. On one side there is you claiming that you are right, ISIS is a bad parent, and demanding exclusive custody of the child. On the other side is ISIS claiming they are right and also demanding exclusive custody.
As the impartial judge, I can see both sides of the argument and award joint custody, but tell you both to sort yourselves out or I'll take the child into care.

Reply 54

Plantagenet Crown

Of course not all Muslims are responsible for acts like these, but there is certainly an issue within the Islamic community concerning the source and inspiration for such attacks. While many Muslims will condemn the particular terrorist, you will rarely find them condemning the Quran and Sunnah, which often has a huge role to play in giving such people motive and justification. Nothing much is going to change until Muslims stop believing the Quran is 100% perfect and start admitting that large chunks of it are unacceptable and should be modified.

Reply 55

l'etranger

Original post by Twinpeaks

How much of the Christian community protested against the KKK a few short decades ago?

In general I have positive views of Muslims, but if you don't think that Christians, particularly Protestants (including non-religious cultural Protestants) have a commitment to social reform including the creation of a mentality of intolerance towards perceived sources of social ills, you must be completely delusional.

Reply 56

markova21

Whenever there had been an IRA bombing or shooting, almost every single time, hundreds of people would turn out to go on a march or rally, often holding banners saying, "Not in my name". They just felt it was really important that people understood it was only a small percentage of the population that was doing that. By not showing your faces and putting yourselves "out there" for people to see that it's something you condemn and is something that isn't in your name you give the impresion, rightly or wrongly, that you all or a very large portion of you all, secretly support it.

Reply 57

QE2

Original post by Alpha-tega

ISIS Don't follow the actual rules of Islam,

You mean that they don't pray salat, don't fast, don't pay zakat?
Are you sure?

They've literally created their own version of "islam" with just ****ed up intentions.

No. They have adopted a version of Islam based on a literalist, retentionist reading of the Quran and sunnah.

I mean It's just absolutely disgusting, the thought of killing people because they don't believe in the same god as yours.

I agree with you.
However, there are passages in the Quran and sunnah that suggest otherwise.

no one is in ANY position to tell someone they believe in the wrong thing, let alone Harming them.

Allah does this constantly throughout the Quran.
You're not that familiar with Islamic doctrine, are you?

Reply 58

nutz99

Seems to me that the basic problem is the Quran. A book that was written in times when the world was completely different, a book that is contradictory and open to many different interpretations. Each Muslim takes what they want from the Quran to satisfy their own ideals and ignores the rest. It simply doesn't work. Change is needed for Islam to be accepted by the rest of the world. To do nothing but simply say that ISIS and other terrorists are nothing to do with Islam is not an option any more.

Reply 59

QE2

Original post by Alpha-tega

I don't understand what point you are trying to make here. Are you saying that there is only one interpretation allowed of anything, and that is decided by popularity?