The Student Room Group

Islam, The Left, and Cognitive Dissonance

What happened yesterday was truly awful, and it got me thinking about Islamic question, once again.

I believe that one of the reasons the left is on the decline in favour of right-wing, reactionary populism is its cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy and double standards regarding Islam. It’s like they have their fingers in their ears shouting ‘not all muslims’ etc.

The fact of the matter is that whilst not all Muslims are terrorists, the majority, even in The West, hold disproportinately backward, ultraconservative beliefs regarding women’s rights, homosexuality, freedom of religion, freedom of speech etc.

There are numerous opinion polls evidencing this (www.thereligionofpeace.com). Yes some of them may have sample bias or other such poor methodological design, and yes I do acknowledge ‘thereligionofpeace’ has a vested interest in portraying Islam in a negative light. But I’m going to take a gamble and assume they show a valid, meaningful picture of contemporary Islamic belief.

Now I want to get one thing straight. I know from experience that there are (albeit a minority) some genuinely liberal Muslims out there who do not believe in things like killing apostates and nonbelievers, executing gays, spreading global jihad etc. But it’s important to acknowledge that unlike Christianity, where The Bible is open to interpretation and you can theologically argue for progressive causes like gay rights, Muslims believe that the qu’ran is the direct word of Allah. Thus, under the core principles of Islam, the qu’ran is not as open to interpretation. I believe that this is the reason why Islam is and has produced so many extremist movements.

It’s time that people like myself with genuinely progressive and left-wing values such as wealth redistribution, the welfare state, gay rights, women’s rights, freedom of speech, personal liberty etc., take into account that Islam and the ideology of Islamism does not support such causes. I believe that the reason the left are so hypocritical of Islam compared to Christianity is that the majority of Muslims in the West are ethnic minorities and of a low socioeconomic position. So, from an intersectional point of view, the left automatically feel altruistic, and the need to defend their rights, even when they preach beliefs that are contradictory to their own.

This is part of a well known, bigger issue often characterised as the ‘regressive left’, or rather that the authoritarian left has taken a hold. Greater emphasis is being placed on identity politics as opposed to class politics, and this leaves traditional supporters of left-wing causes disenfranchised.

The fact that leftists against this authoritarianism are not stepping up to the mark mean that those on the right and far right (quite legitimately) criticise regressivism, but then use it for their own purposes, to push their own sick agenda. The alt-right and Donald Trump are prime examples of this! Third-wave feminism, made-up gender identities and the ‘all white people are racist’ narritive are other examples of how the left have gone too far.

I’m not so concerned about terrorism - I’m more concerned about the growing influence and adherence to Islam in Western countries. Birth rates in Muslim families are much higher than the native population, and Islam is projected to become the world’s largest religion in years to come.

The issue of Islamic extermism and Islamic belief is a very sensitive, subjective and nuanced area of concern. It’s very easy to label all Muslims terrorists and invoke fear in people. However, I believe rational conversations need to be had to ensure that western liberal democracy remains intact. We must whole-heartedly reject any form of legal pluralism regarding Sharia Law and Islam in general.

Islam can go one of three ways. It can gain even stronger influence and cause more divisions within our society. It can become reformed and in line with Western values. Or Muslims in the West can leave Islam in favour of secularism, with the aid of support networks and charities which help people escape the harrowing financial and emotional constraints experienced by closeted ex-Muslims.

I’ll leave you with a quote which I think is most relevant in the current climate.

Spoiler

Scroll to see replies

You know something has changed when jambojim97 says enough is enough
All I see is a link to 'religion of peace', the most biased, uncredible, unreliable, hate mongering, website out there. Lol.
Reply 3
Original post by l'etranger
You know something has changed when jambojim97 says enough is enough


For a long time my rationality has wrestled with my inner liberal to convince myself that Muslims are overwhelmingly open-minded and tolerant.

I'm still overwhelmingly left-wing in my political, social and economic views. I just acknowledge that, just like the KKK or the Westboro Baptist Church, most Muslims would find my views repugnant.
Reply 4
Original post by bex.anne
All I see is a link to 'religion of peace', the most biased, uncredible, unreliable, hate mongering, website out there. Lol.


Did you read my post? I acknowledged that thereligionofpeace has a vested interest in portraying Islam in a negative light. Nobody's 100% right or wrong. But a lot of the opinion polls listed on the site are from reputable, nationally-syndicated polling firms, which show that the majority of Muslims hold backward views.
Original post by jambojim97
What happened yesterday was truly awful, and it got me thinking about Islamic question, once again.

I believe that one of the reasons the left is on the decline in favour of right-wing, reactionary populism is its cognitive dissonance, hypocrisy and double standards regarding Islam. It’s like they have their fingers in their ears shouting ‘not all muslims’ etc.

The fact of the matter is that whilst not all Muslims are terrorists, the majority, even in The West, hold disproportinately backward, ultraconservative beliefs regarding women’s rights, homosexuality, freedom of religion, freedom of speech etc.

There are numerous opinion polls evidencing this (www.thereligionofpeace.com). Yes some of them may have sample bias or other such poor methodological design, and yes I do acknowledge ‘thereligionofpeace’ has a vested interest in portraying Islam in a negative light. But I’m going to take a gamble and assume they show a valid, meaningful picture of contemporary Islamic belief.

Now I want to get one thing straight. I know from experience that there are (albeit a minority) some genuinely liberal Muslims out there who do not believe in things like killing apostates and nonbelievers, executing gays, spreading global jihad etc. But it’s important to acknowledge that unlike Christianity, where The Bible is open to interpretation and you can theologically argue for progressive causes like gay rights, Muslims believe that the qu’ran is the direct word of Allah. Thus, under the core principles of Islam, the qu’ran is not as open to interpretation. I believe that this is the reason why Islam is and has produced so many extremist movements.

It’s time that people like myself with genuinely progressive and left-wing values such as wealth redistribution, the welfare state, gay rights, women’s rights, freedom of speech, personal liberty etc., take into account that Islam and the ideology of Islamism does not support such causes. I believe that the reason the left are so hypocritical of Islam compared to Christianity is that the majority of Muslims in the West are ethnic minorities and of a low socioeconomic position. So, from an intersectional point of view, the left automatically feel altruistic, and the need to defend their rights, even when they preach beliefs that are contradictory to their own.

This is part of a well known, bigger issue often characterised as the ‘regressive left’, or rather that the authoritarian left has taken a hold. Greater emphasis is being placed on identity politics as opposed to class politics, and this leaves traditional supporters of left-wing causes disenfranchised.

The fact that leftists against this authoritarianism are not stepping up to the mark mean that those on the right and far right (quite legitimately) criticise regressivism, but then use it for their own purposes, to push their own sick agenda. The alt-right and Donald Trump are prime examples of this! Third-wave feminism, made-up gender identities and the ‘all white people are racist’ narritive are other examples of how the left have gone too far.

I’m not so concerned about terrorism - I’m more concerned about the growing influence and adherence to Islam in Western countries. Birth rates in Muslim families are much higher than the native population, and Islam is projected to become the world’s largest religion in years to come.

The issue of Islamic extermism and Islamic belief is a very sensitive, subjective and nuanced area of concern. It’s very easy to label all Muslims terrorists and invoke fear in people. However, I believe rational conversations need to be had to ensure that western liberal democracy remains intact. We must whole-heartedly reject any form of legal pluralism regarding Sharia Law and Islam in general.

Islam can go one of three ways. It can gain even stronger influence and cause more divisions within our society. It can become reformed and in line with Western values. Or Muslims in the West can leave Islam in favour of secularism, with the aid of support networks and charities which help people escape the harrowing financial and emotional constraints experienced by closeted ex-Muslims.

I’ll leave you with a quote which I think is most relevant in the current climate.

Spoiler



Pew research, and various other more reliable opinion polls have indicated as much.

But I'd like to add one thing. Cognitive dissonance actually means that the person is aware that they are holding two contradictory beliefs, the current situation is more like Orwellian doublethink - the left are often not even aware that they hold beliefs that are completely at odds with each other - clearly you would be an exception.

What I don't understand is how even some of my incredibly smart left wing friends fail to notice their obvious conflation with a criticism of an ideology with a criticism of a set of people - utterly mind boggling...:s-smilie:
The Qur'an is certainly open to interpretation which is exactly why some believe to kill apostates and others don't.

To state there isn't because the Qur'an is the word of God is a non-sequitur.

But this is a good thing. "Reformation" can be done in the form of accepting less violent ideas like not punishing apostasy.
Reply 7
Original post by Osiris Wintereisse
Pew research, and various other more reliable opinion polls have indicated as much.

But I'd like to add one thing. Cognitive dissonance actually means that the person is aware that they are holding two contradictory beliefs, the current situation is more like Orwellian doublethink - the left are often not even aware that they hold beliefs that are completely at odds with each other - clearly you would be an exception.

What I don't understand is how even some of my incredibly smart left wing friends fail to notice their obvious conflation with a criticism of an ideology with a criticism of a set of people - utterly mind boggling...:s-smilie:


10/10 agree :gthumb:
Original post by Cherub012
The Qur'an is certainly open to interpretation which is exactly why some believe to kill apostates and others don't.

To state there isn't because the Qur'an is the word of God is a non-sequitur.

But this is a good thing. "Reformation" can be done in the form of accepting less violent ideas like not punishing apostasy.


Out of the Abrahamic religions, the Qur'an is definitely the least 'open to interpretation'.

If you are a serious adherent to the Islamic faith, the only way you can elevate your faith above that of others is to appeal to the unique qualities of Islam - namely that the Qur'an is a direct, unaltered and final word of god.

I don't even know how reformation would come about. Those Muslims reformers like Maajid Nawaz who I respect is treated like utter garbage and trash by the mainstream Muslims clerics, they actually consider him an apostate.
I'm interested to hear your views on how this can be addressed.

For me, solutions currently offered by the alt-right are at best, ineffective virtual signalling and at worst, dangerously counterproductive.
Reply 10
Original post by bex.anne
All I see is a link to 'religion of peace', the most biased, uncredible, unreliable, hate mongering, website out there. Lol.

Most things are biased lol. Anything that seeks to prove a point is going to be subjective, and that fact remains for ANYTHING.
How is it unreliable, though? They source all the terror attacks and post real Quran verses. Which part of their website isn't credible?
Original post by Osiris Wintereisse
Out of the Abrahamic religions, the Qur'an is definitely the least 'open to interpretation'.

If you are a serious adherent to the Islamic faith, the only way you can elevate your faith above that of others is to appeal to the unique qualities of Islam - namely that the Qur'an is a direct, unaltered and final word of god.

I don't even know how reformation would come about. Those Muslims reformers like Maajid Nawaz who I respect is treated like utter garbage and trash by the mainstream Muslims clerics, they actually consider him an apostate.


Have you ever read the old testament?
Original post by bex.anne
Have you ever read the old testament?


Yes, the old testament is by far the most blood thirsty text out of them all; but most Jews don't take the old testament as literally....

Similarly, if I were to draw offensive pictures of Jewish holy persons or criticised the Torah publicly on the internet, my life expectancy wouldn't be cut instantly. Most importantly, people won't call me antisemitic.... Because double standards are applied when it is solely Islam.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Mathemagicien
Ah. You have been pondering about a final solution to the islamic question? That sounds a tad familiar...


Yes but it certainly doesn't involve gas chambers thank you very much!

Godwin's law, verified!
The Left's support for Islam, or at least for the Palestinian cause, seems to me as much about being either anti-Christian or anti-Israeli, or using it as a way of trying to have a form of state secularism.
Original post by Mikos
Most things are biased lol. Anything that seeks to prove a point is going to be subjective, and that fact remains for ANYTHING.
How is it unreliable, though? They source all the terror attacks and post real Quran verses. Which part of their website isn't credible?


They take quran verses out of context and give an interpretation which is obscure. In addition to this, the translation from arabic to english has been found to be incorrect to suit their agenda MANY times, several words having been placed into qoutes, and the order of them changed. They even got caught when they literally fabricated a verse of the Tabari (they made up a qoute), and had to take it down.

It is unreliable. Theyre not real quran verses when half of them are incorrect translation or taken out of context, such as the verses about murder, which were in the context of war, that they just extract to make all the naive readers think they mean every muslim should kill every non muslim they encounter. Which is not true when other verses say respect all people and be friends with non muslims - the prophet muhammed was friends with his jewish business partner.
Original post by Osiris Wintereisse
Out of the Abrahamic religions, the Qur'an is definitely the least 'open to interpretation'.

If you are a serious adherent to the Islamic faith, the only way you can elevate your faith above that of others is to appeal to the unique qualities of Islam - namely that the Qur'an is a direct, unaltered and final word of god.

I don't even know how reformation would come about. Those Muslims reformers like Maajid Nawaz who I respect is treated like utter garbage and trash by the mainstream Muslims clerics, they actually consider him an apostate.


Again, this (bit in bold) does not mean it is not open to interpretation, though I agree it is the least open out of the three.

An actual "reformation" is impossible because in Islam there is no equivalent to a Catholic Church. At least afaik.
Original post by Mathemagicien
State secularism... through islamophilia? How does that work, exactly?


You take away any state support for Christianity, such as faith schools, public sector celebrations of Christmas, on the grounds that people of other faiths such as Muslims will be 'offended'. Which is usually a myth except perhaps for Jihadists.
Original post by bex.anne
They take quran verses out of context and give an interpretation which is obscure. In addition to this, the translation from arabic to english has been found to be incorrect to suit their agenda MANY times, several words having been placed into qoutes, and the order of them changed. They even got caught when they literally fabricated a verse of the Tabari (they made up a qoute), and had to take it down.

It is unreliable. Theyre not real quran verses when half of them are incorrect translation or taken out of context, such as the verses about murder, which were in the context of war, that they just extract to make all the naive readers think they mean every muslim should kill every non muslim they encounter. Which is not true when other verses say respect all people and be friends with non muslims - the prophet muhammed was friends with his jewish business partner.


Sadly, the violent verses all supersede the earlier (mostly peaceful) verses. Yes there are translation issues, but it speaks volumes that the leading Islamic scholars (scholars at Al-Azhar for example) label ISIS as terrorists, but refuse to call them apostates.

The Hadiths are filled with pretty horrific stuff also. Especially the hadiths that are considered the most 'legitimate' paint Muhammad in a pretty terrible light.
Original post by barnetlad
You take away any state support for Christianity, such as faith schools, public sector celebrations of Christmas, on the grounds that people of other faiths such as Muslims will be 'offended'. Which is usually a myth except perhaps for Jihadists.


I'm an atheist, but I don't think it's right for the state to undermine the Judeo-Christian roots of this nation...

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