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Iragi bombings killing 200 due to looser rules of engagement under Trump?

"Taken together, the surge of reported civilian deaths raised questions about whether once-strict rules of engagement meant to minimize civilian casualties were being relaxed under the Trump administration, which has vowed to fight the Islamic State more aggressively."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/world/middleeast/us-iraq-mosul-investigation-airstrike-civilian-deaths.html

Trump did say we should go after there families and everything.

I'm sure Nick Cohen can write a piece about how these wreckless bombings are justified because the regressive left supports Assad :rolleyes:

There seems to be stupid binary of arguments on offer for western intervention. Either everything the west ever does is evil because of imperialism or lack of respect for nationalism. Or the The Left is bad and therefore we should bomb population centres.

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So do the NY Times actually have anything linking the Trump administration to the recent surge in civilian deaths?
Original post by Dandaman1
So do the NY Times actually have anything linking the Trump administration to the recent surge in civilian deaths?


It's just an interesting coincidence given what he has said.
Reply 3
Original post by Dandaman1
So do the NY Times
actually have anything linking the Trump administration to the recent surge in civilian deaths?

They've spoken to members of Iraqi special forces who have pointed out a clear relaxation in rules of engagement. They've been going for targets they would have avoided under Obama. It's nothing concrete, but the timing fits.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Just to be clear.

Civilian deaths in the ME are important again, now Obama is out of office?

OK got it.
Reply 5
Original post by joe cooley
Just to be clear.

Civilian deaths in the ME are important again, now Obama is out of office?

OK got it.


https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/05/do-not-believe-the-u-s-governments-official-numbers-on-drone-strike-civilian-casualties/amp/

There was always concern. And now the civilian death toll appears to be rising even faster.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
"Taken together, the surge of reported civilian deaths raised questions about whether once-strict rules of engagement meant to minimize civilian casualties were being relaxed under the Trump administration, which has vowed to fight the Islamic State more aggressively."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/world/middleeast/us-iraq-mosul-investigation-airstrike-civilian-deaths.html

Trump did say we should go after there families and everything.

I'm sure Nick Cohen can write a piece about how these wreckless bombings are justified because the regressive left supports Assad :rolleyes:

There seems to be stupid binary of arguments on offer for western intervention. Either everything the west ever does is evil because of imperialism or lack of respect for nationalism. Or the The Left is bad and therefore we should bomb population centres.


"Trump did say we should go after there families and everything."

Please give me the reference.
Reply 7
I hope the oppressors and wrongdoers in the war are soon punished (insha'Allah, God willing)
Reported this morning by the Iraqi army, that I.S. are deliberately trapping civilians and rigging buildings with explosives which are then detonated to kill civilians timed to coincide with airstrikes against I.S. positions and then claiming it was coalition forces targeting the civilians that killed them.
Original post by Kuffar Sheikh
"Trump did say we should go after there families and everything."

Please give me the reference.


He said it on an interview with Fox or something ~1 year ago.

Original post by uberteknik
Reported this morning by the Iraqi army, that I.S. are deliberately trapping civilians and rigging buildings with explosives which are then detonated to kill civilians timed to coincide with airstrikes against I.S. positions and then claiming it was coalition forces targeting the civilians that killed them.


Sounds ridiculous.
Original post by cbreef
He said it on an interview with Fox or something ~1 year ago.



Sounds ridiculous.
First of all, even one civilian death is a tragedy let alone the thousands who have already died. The pain and grief is unimaginable and as a human, I cannot help but feel sorrow and empathy for those innocents caught up in this truly abominable conflict.

The true cause is going to be very difficult to extract in an enemy occupied and heavily defended territory. The 'fog' of war will persist. We can safely deduce some information though:

That a significant number of civilians have died is true.

That coinciding with the timing, the U.S. attacked 25 or so I.S. positions and 56+ I.S. vehicles is almost certainly true.

That the I.S. use people as human shields is chillingly true.

That I.S. rigged explosives and murdered civilians to blame the U.S. coincident with the U.S. airstrikes is unknown.

That the U.S. deliberately targeted 200+ civilians is almost certainly false.

That a grave error may have been made and by whom Is unknown.

That I.S. and their sympathisers will try and use the deaths as propaganda is most definitely true.
Anyone who believes an enemy like ISIS can be defeated without civilian casualties is living in a fantasy world.

Two choices:

Fight ISIS kill innocent civilians.

Don't fight ISIS kill no innocent civilians.

Simple as that.
Reply 12
So you don't know the cause, it seems irresponsible to link it to trump without evidence
Original post by cbreef
He said it on an interview with Fox or something ~1 year ago.


That's the problem - he NEVER said the way you (or the fake news liberal media) are saying he said.

Trump didn't say just go and kill their families. That's the narrative cnn, msnbc put out - as if he wanted terrorists' families dead as revenge or something.

What happened was, he was talking about terrorists using human shields, sometimes their own families to protect themselves. Usually in a situation like that, even though we know where the terrorists are, we let them go because of the fear of cilvilan casualties, Trump said even in these cases, we should kill them. THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

If someone is protecting a terrorist, he/she's aiding and must pay the price. I don't see anything wrong with that. But just going and finding terrorists' families and killing them - NO, that's murder, which Trump never suggested.
Original post by joe cooley
Just to be clear.

Civilian deaths in the ME are important again, now Obama is out of office?

OK got it.


They were always important. But at least Obama had some notion of measuring up what is the best course of action to take. Trump is just an idiot who says dumb things like go after their families. I can easily see him supporting more relaxed bombing because he is a thin skinned moron.
(edited 6 years ago)
It certainly doesn't help that recently the fight against Daesh has taken place in urban areas like Mosul & Raqqa. Urban warfare is little better than meat grinder - the defender will always have the advantage. The fact the jihadists use unconventional tactics & deliberately try to ensure the Coalition strikes land near civilians certainly doesn't help.
Original post by Kuffar Sheikh
That's the problem - he NEVER said the way you (or the fake news liberal media) are saying he said.

Trump didn't say just go and kill their families. That's the narrative cnn, msnbc put out - as if he wanted terrorists' families dead as revenge or something.

What happened was, he was talking about terrorists using human shields, sometimes their own families to protect themselves. Usually in a situation like that, even though we know where the terrorists are, we let them go because of the fear of cilvilan casualties, Trump said even in these cases, we should kill them. THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

If someone is protecting a terrorist, he/she's aiding and must pay the price. I don't see anything wrong with that. But just going and finding terrorists' families and killing them - NO, that's murder, which Trump never suggested.


He said "we have to go after their families". Ive seen it myself.
Original post by h333
I hope the oppressors and wrongdoers in the war are soon punished (insha'Allah, God willing)


In what way exactly?
Original post by cbreef
He said "we have to go after their families". Ive seen it myself.


Jesus christ - go see the segment for yourself and listen to what he said right before that line.

READ:

But in addition to targeting the terrorists in ISIL, their families should also be killed, he said, adding that one of the reasons why they are so effective is that they are using civilians as "shields," calling it one of the reasons the United States has been "so ineffective."
"It's a horrible thing. They're using them as shields. But we're fighting a very politically correct war. And the other thing is with the terrorists, you have to take out their families," he explained. "They, they care about their lives. Don’t kid yourself. But they say they don’t care about their lives. You have to take out their families.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/trump-kill-isil-families-216343

Changes the narrative quite a bit, doesn't it?
(edited 6 years ago)
as @uberteknik pointed out there is no evidence that the sad deaths were caused by the good guys.

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