The Commonwealth Vs The European Union.

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masterwam
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As we are leaving the EU and we will be looking for allies old and new, the Commonwealth seems a good a place to start. The EU, seem, through their common defence and foriegn policy, to be seeking a greater role in the world.


The Commonwealth, however spans every continent, has a population 4 times greater than the EU, an economy in size just below that of the United States and a military comparable to the great nations of the world (if you consider nuclear weapons of Pakistan, the UK and India etc, alongside the military manpower of all the other 52 nations),

The Commonwealth has the resources and ability to potentially outperform the EUin matters economic, defense and foreign.I dont propose a potentially fully fledged state like the EU will eventually become but merely a confederacy/alliance of states if you like.

If you were a remainer, what are your views on Commonwealth development or potentially being a rival to the European Union? Will you be sad that Britain is no longer part of the so called European dream/project? Or will you welcome a future like i have mentioned with Commonwealth development into a superpower?
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SHallowvale
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The Commonwealth is far too divided to become a functioning superpower/bloc anytime soon. While Pakistan and India are nuclear powers they also hate each other.

Per capita, GDP in the Commonwealth is $6,000. In the EU it is $32,000. Since our economy is primarily service based it's important for us to stay where the money is. Hence staying with the EU seems to be the most beneficial option at the moment.

Generally I'd say that the EU excels under most measures.
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Nourty16
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The Commonwealth is strong but there is only 17 countries apart of it to this date. And even before the referendum we were apart of the Commonwealth. So it's essentially looking at what will change now that we are leaving the EU and looking towards the Commonwealth. The problems that occur however is Imperialism of Britain over the Commonwealth. Which is why there were Revolutions and Rebellions against Britain throughout the 20th Century (I.e. India, Egypt etc.). Many other countries may view Britains intentions to regrow its imperial control. But I do agree that it is the logical next step for Britain, in terms of the economy and in World Trade and our Social Position in Western society. It does put us in a strong place against the EU, if it works out positively for us
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masterwam
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(Original post by Mathemagicien)
Lol, you want a union with Pakistan? And you expect India to join too?

If you had a problem with paying towards the poorer EU states, imagine the much bigger problem of paying towards the total shitholes in Africa.


I have said a loose confederation and I am very much aware of the hatred betwene the indians and pakistanis. i would not have any form of paying towards the africans but instead a free trade zone which would be much more beneficial than subsidies to poorer nations.
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Doones
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(Original post by Nourty16)
The Commonwealth is strong but there is only 17 countries apart of it to this date.
52 - although many are very small and/or economically relatively very poor.

http://thecommonwealth.org/member-countries


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username1799249
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The Commonwealth is basically the remnants of the British empire. Do you really think the colonies with their now well established identity and independence are going to dance to the tune of their old master in desperate need of new friends having sacked off the EU? What ever deals there are to be had, they are not going to be preferential to the UK.
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Dez
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The brexiteer obsession with the commonwealth is really quite bizarre.

Europe is literally on our doorstep, it has some of the most powerful economies in the world, and we have excellent transport links, infrastructure and other agreements in place with them already. So why, from a purely economic perspective, would we ever want to give up trade with the EU in order to set up trade with commonwealth countries instead?

There's simply no way we could ever get as good a deal as the one we already have. The countries involved are far apart, they have very different economies to ours, we don't have as strong relations with most of them.

I really don't understand why the leave camp want to avoid trade with the EU so badly. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face, we simply won't get a better result elsewhere. I can understand not wanting a political union, but not having a trade union is sheer folly.
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ywilliamchand13
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(Original post by masterwam)
I have said a loose confederation and I am very much aware of the hatred betwene the indians and pakistanis. i would not have any form of paying towards the africans but instead a free trade zone which would be much more beneficial than subsidies to poorer nations.
*** "I am very much aware of the hatred between the Indian and Pakistan GOVERNMENTS".
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Rakas21
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(Original post by masterwam)
As we are leaving the EU and we will be looking for allies old and new, the Commonwealth seems a good a place to start. The EU, seem, through their common defence and foriegn policy, to be seeking a greater role in the world.


The Commonwealth, however spans every continent, has a population 4 times greater than the EU, an economy in size just below that of the United States and a military comparable to the great nations of the world (if you consider nuclear weapons of Pakistan, the UK and India etc, alongside the military manpower of all the other 52 nations),

The Commonwealth has the resources and ability to potentially outperform the EUin matters economic, defense and foreign.I dont propose a potentially fully fledged state like the EU will eventually become but merely a confederacy/alliance of states if you like.

If you were a remainer, what are your views on Commonwealth development or potentially being a rival to the European Union? Will you be sad that Britain is no longer part of the so called European dream/project? Or will you welcome a future like i have mentioned with Commonwealth development into a superpower?
If the Commonwealth wanted to integrate it already would be, the UK leaving the EU will not change that (and that's before we consider the religious/cultural issues and question why terrorist states like Pakistan can be members).

I support leaving the EU but those people who view the Commonwealth as our saviour are inept. The best case scenario is that we get closer to the developed Anglopshere and US.
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CountBrandenburg
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*** Clearly we should annex the Commonwealth and be over and done with **^
But yeah the Commonwealth does not promote an automatic fix and I share pretty much the same opinion as Rakas here.
Also wonderful to resurrect such an old thread
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SaucissonSecCy
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The commonwealth is much more important to us, in terms of identity, tradition and values.
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L i b
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The Commonwealth is a force for good in the world, but it's not sufficiently homogeneous to even consider economic or political union in any significantly greater sense.

(Original post by ByEeek)
The Commonwealth is basically the remnants of the British empire. Do you really think the colonies with their now well established identity and independence are going to dance to the tune of their old master in desperate need of new friends having sacked off the EU? What ever deals there are to be had, they are not going to be preferential to the UK.
The UK can work with the Commonwealth countries quite effectively. It's got very little to do with identity.

The UK is one member, and 65 million people in a Commonwealth population of more than 2 billion. We don't set any "tune" here - we probably have greater influence than other members, but it's fundamentally an organisation that works on agreement and voluntary co-operation.
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Doones
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(Original post by L i b)
The Commonwealth is a force for good in the world, but it's not sufficiently homogeneous to even consider economic or political union in any significantly greater sense.



The UK can work with the Commonwealth countries quite effectively. It's got very little to do with identity.

The UK is one member, and 65 million people in a Commonwealth population of more than 2 billion. We don't set any "tune" here - we probably have greater influence than other members, but it's fundamentally an organisation that works on agreement and voluntary co-operation.
And the other members haven't hesitated to flex their muscles against the UK in the past - e.g. when 32 countries boycotted the 1986 Edinburgh Commonwealth Games due to Thatcher's support of apartheid South Africa.
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Mr Daily Mail
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Don't think there's much an appetite among many commonwealth countries for a union similar to the EU, however I support a CANZUK trade agreement along the lines of this:
http://www.canzukinternational.com/our-mission

I would keep foreign policy and constitutional affairs to a minimum though with the latter mainly being the Monarchy since we share that.
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StuartyBudd
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The UK already trades with most of the Commonwealth, through the EU's FTA's.

Even if we didn't, over half of the UK's trade is with the EU.
If the UK leaves the Customs Union and Single Market then it is in trouble.

Brexit is nonsense.
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Miss Maddie
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The westernised Commonwealth is wealthy and trustworthy and suitable for closer relations. The rest of the CW is a remined of how great Britain once was. The days of big alliances are drawing to a close. The global public sphere is becoming a global sphere constructed of cultural spheres. The quicker britain moves way from promoting multiculturalism and cosmpolitanism the better.
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Napp
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(Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
The commonwealth is much more important to us, in terms of identity, tradition and values.
It is also much poorer than us.
not to mention the majority of it is made up of rather despotic 3rd world countries who share no identity or values with us.

(Original post by Miss Maddie)
The westernised Commonwealth is wealthy and trustworthy and suitable for closer relations. The rest of the CW is a remined of how great Britain once was. The days of big alliances are drawing to a close. The global public sphere is becoming a global sphere constructed of cultural spheres. The quicker britain moves way from promoting multiculturalism and cosmpolitanism the better.
That presupposes they would want closer relations. You seem to forget they have not forgiven Britain for sailing them up the creek when it joined the EEC. They have diversified and realigned their economies away from Britain to Asia [with respect to NZL and Australia] and America for Canada. Even then these countries would muc rather trade with the EU than Britain for the simple fact it is worth a **** load more to them.
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SaucissonSecCy
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(Original post by Napp)
It is also much poorer than us.
not to mention the majority of it is made up of rather despotic 3rd world countries who share no identity or values with us.
.
Well they have child abuse, financial corruption and human rights abuses, so we should have plenty to bond over(!!)
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Dabsykiwi
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Actually the Commonwealth isn't divided as, what yoi seem to think. CANZUK especially is, forging ahead, and as, stated, UK has more in common with the Commonwealth than EU in culture, foreign policy, defence etc. And growth is more with the Commonwealth, while the EU is declining. The only thing that the EU is excelling at is "freedom of movement" which has just about destroyed Europe and the UK.

Overall, prefer these figures

Commonwealth

Cover 6 Continents, 53 Countries and adding.. Home to 2.4 Bn, EU 508 Milion, Combined income of 10.4 trillion and growing, And as, stated, more in common with UK and all on the same hymn sheet, foreign affairs, defence, economy etc. I certainly from a military standpoint see any use for a EU Army since NATO is what it's there for, nor, do I wish to see the British Armed Forces being commanded by the EU.
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Gabr19
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Help India develop, as the American Marshall plan did to Europe.
Britain has the largest financial investment in the US. Use it.
Last edited by Gabr19; 1 year ago
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