Minimum wage too low Watch

Sternumator
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Anonymous1502)
You can still survive but what sort of life is this?Consumed by trying to save a pound here and there I am all for saving money but this sort of life is nothing but work and surviving not actually living and exploring.Work is important but this sort of life does not seem rewarding.
That's life, unfortunately. If you have the lowest pay rate in the country, you will be relatively poor. It is still a lot richer than most people in the world.

If people want a life of luxury, they need to earn the money to pay for that.

It isn't the politicians fault. They can tinker around the edges but the fundamental problem that some people are not very productive remains. There is only so much money to go around.

You can argue that marginal rises would be a good idea but ultimately the market decides wages not politicians. The are no easy answers. If there were, everyone would be on £100k minimum.
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Carlylean
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#62
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(Original post by bones-mccoy)
Yeah, exactly. I've done 15 hour shifts before too, also had to cover when my manager was on holiday (so basically me and another girl running the clubhouse between us) which meant both of us working long shifts every day and it was so bad my feet bled and I couldn't walk without being in pain all whilst being on minimum wage, never doing that again!

Luckily I only live a 20 minute walk away from work but yeah, it completely wrecks the next day if I do a long, hectic shift
Sounds like exploitation frankly.
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The Good Doctor
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(Original post by Anonymous1502)
You can still survive but what sort of life is this?Consumed by trying to save a pound here and there I am all for saving money but this sort of life is nothing but work and surviving not actually living and exploring.Work is important but this sort of life does not seem rewarding.
What sort of life is that!?!? A perfectly respectable, comfortable and most of all SENSIBLY MANAGED life! Did you not pay attention to the numbers? There is plenty left over to do with what you like. Within all the saving, there's still enough money for a carefully budgeted night out every week. Occasional outings to the cinema. Occasional short trips to Spain, etc. And you know what? You could probably even take a whole day off EVERY week with no pay and still have a bit left over for some luxuries! If anything, the minimum wage could do with being lowered. Because people can SURVIVE on much less in this country and still be better off than the majority of the rest of the world. And that is what it is meant to do. Enable you to SURVIVE and stop employers from paying you less than is necessary to ensure that! Or do you just object to having to make an effort to afford all your creature comforts?

You think society is morally obliged to pick up the bill for your evenings in Nando's with your buddies? Do you think society should just provide you with the money to pay for entry and drinks fees in whatever nightclub you feel like going to every week because that is your right? Or pay for a nice big house with a garden and a 70 inch flatscreen TV with Netflix? Do me a favour....
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RogerOxon
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#64
(Original post by Anonymous1502)
You can still survive but what sort of life is this?Consumed by trying to save a pound here and there I am all for saving money but this sort of life is nothing but work and surviving not actually living and exploring.Work is important but this sort of life does not seem rewarding.
It's not meant to be comfortable - it's meant to allow someone to survive. If you have skills that are worth more, you should earn more. If you don't, you should be motivated to develop them, or to do jobs that pay more because fewer people will accept them.

The economy does not owe anyone anything - you have to earn your living. If you want comfort, earn it.
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paul514
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(Original post by RogerOxon)
It's not meant to be comfortable - it's meant to allow someone to survive. If you have skills that are worth more, you should earn more. If you don't, you should be motivated to develop them, or to do jobs that pay more because fewer people will accept them.

The economy does not owe anyone anything - you have to earn your living. If you want comfort, earn it.
Actually it is supposed to make you comfortable.

Unemployment benefits are meant to allow you to survive


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username878267
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#66
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(Original post by RogerOxon)
It's not meant to be comfortable - it's meant to allow someone to survive. If you have skills that are worth more, you should earn more. If you don't, you should be motivated to develop them, or to do jobs that pay more because fewer people will accept them.

The economy does not owe anyone anything - you have to earn your living. If you want comfort, earn it.
So should we ban parents passing money onto their children?

That would be the only way to achieve a true meritocracy...
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RogerOxon
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#67
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(Original post by Bornblue)
So should we ban parents passing money onto their children?

That would be the only way to achieve a true meritocracy...
Fair point, although I'm not for that. Ensuring that there are no barriers to achieving your full potential (job-wise) is as much as I would ask.
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nymphielymphie
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#68
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Some of you are talking out of your backsides, ever lived in London? Yes, the London Wages are starting to come in but only for 25+.

A room in London is £400-£800 per month depending on area, bathroom/kitchen facilities and why the owner is renting it out. It is pretty uncommon to work in one's home area, so you're looking at a £24/week bus pass or a £30-£60/week travel card. But you know, people on rooms manage. Single people and couples, they get by on instant noodles and sleeping on the floor.

But what if you want to rent a whole house because you have a child? Absolutely cheapest I've heard of is £950 + bills in SW Zone 5, but my friend's mom pays £1450 for a two bedroom house the size of an average classroom in a Streatham side road. On top of that is around £120/month council tax, and don't forget that water, electricity and gas are actually charged at a higher rate in London than outside of it.

And under 25s don't get London Wages. Landlords are adjusting prices to accommodate the LW introduction, leaving us youngsters who want to become independent behind.

It's easy for people to talk about things like this when they have Bank of Mum and Dad open 24/7 with all the funds ever needed available at a whim
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username2808800
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#69
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The solution is to tie it to an employment rate.

For those of you interested see the bill me and rakas wrote which does this here.
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Darwinion
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#70
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Minimum wage is the new maximum wage. It's the most many employers are now prepared to pay. If you don't want to do the job then Mr.Kachanski or any one of his mates will come and do it.
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username2808800
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#71
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(Original post by RogerOxon)
Fair point, although I'm not for that. Ensuring that there are no barriers to achieving your full potential (job-wise) is as much as I would ask.
(Original post by The Good Doctor)
What sort of life is that!?!? A perfectly respectable, comfortable and most of all SENSIBLY MANAGED life! Did you not pay attention to the numbers? There is plenty left over to do with what you like. Within all the saving, there's still enough money for a carefully budgeted night out every week. Occasional outings to the cinema. Occasional short trips to Spain, etc. And you know what? You could probably even take a whole day off EVERY week with no pay and still have a bit left over for some luxuries! If anything, the minimum wage could do with being lowered. Because people can SURVIVE on much less in this country and still be better off than the majority of the rest of the world. And that is what it is meant to do. Enable you to SURVIVE and stop employers from paying you less than is necessary to ensure that! Or do you just object to having to make an effort to afford all your creature comforts?

You think society is morally obliged to pick up the bill for your evenings in Nando's with your buddies? Do you think society should just provide you with the money to pay for entry and drinks fees in whatever nightclub you feel like going to every week because that is your right? Or pay for a nice big house with a garden and a 70 inch flatscreen TV with Netflix? Do me a favour....


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(Original post by Bornblue)
There have been a whole host of studies conducted on whether the minimum wage increases unemployment and there hasn't been any which prove or even strongly suggest that it does.

The vast majority find very litttle effect on employment from raising the minimum wage.

Obviously the minimum wage needs to be increased at a sensible rate but there simply isn't the evidence to suggest it does more harm than good.
This is true , there is virtually no effect.
For the doubters see below( I am right wing)

He can also see the empirical evidence here.
The results were clear. Of the nearly two dozen federal minimum-wage hikes since 1938, total year-over-year employment actually increased 68% of the time.

In those industries most affected by the minimum wage, employment increases were even more common: 73% of the time in the retail sector, 82% in low-wage leisure and hospitality.

In fact, if anything, the data suggest that increases in the federal minimum appeared to encourage job growth and hiring.

Perhaps even more striking, of the only eight times that total or industry-specific employment declined after a minimum-wage increase, the US economy was already in recession (five times), technically just emerging from recession (twice), or about to head into recession (once).

Clearly, this handful of employment downturns would be better explained by the normal business cycle than by the minimum wag

We have been raising the minimum wage for 78 years, and as a new study clearly reveals( see the link), 78 years of minimum-wage hikes have produced zero evidence of the "job-killing" consequences these headline writers want us to fear.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has slashed its US growth forecast, urged policy makers to keep interest rates low and raise the minimum wage to strengthen its recovery.

The IMF have advised America to increase the minimum wage as seen here.

British wages and American wages have been stagnant and raising the minimum wage will change that and Osborne did just that.
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Tubbz
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#72
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(Original post by Anonymous1502)
For that sort of wage you would get a box room,food,travel pay and basics to survive.But barely any money left to save or spend how you would like.
That statement right there... That's why it's called minimum wage, it's the minimum wage you need to get by.

I agree it's low, and certainly wouldn't want to go back to a minimum wage job, but that's why you get qualifications, so you don't have to just "get by".
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Quady
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#73
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(Original post by Darwinion)
Minimum wage is the new maximum wage. It's the most many employers are now prepared to pay. If you don't want to do the job then Mr.Kachanski or any one of his mates will come and do it.
Not really, I'm on 3-4 times the minimum wage.
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Quady
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#74
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(Original post by nymphielymphie)
Some of you are talking out of your backsides, ever lived in London? Yes, the London Wages are starting to come in but only for 25+.

A room in London is £400-£800 per month depending on area, bathroom/kitchen facilities and why the owner is renting it out. It is pretty uncommon to work in one's home area, so you're looking at a £24/week bus pass or a £30-£60/week travel card. But you know, people on rooms manage. Single people and couples, they get by on instant noodles and sleeping on the floor.

But what if you want to rent a whole house because you have a child? Absolutely cheapest I've heard of is £950 + bills in SW Zone 5, but my friend's mom pays £1450 for a two bedroom house the size of an average classroom in a Streatham side road. On top of that is around £120/month council tax, and don't forget that water, electricity and gas are actually charged at a higher rate in London than outside of it.

And under 25s don't get London Wages. Landlords are adjusting prices to accommodate the LW introduction, leaving us youngsters who want to become independent behind.

It's easy for people to talk about things like this when they have Bank of Mum and Dad open 24/7 with all the funds ever needed available at a whim
Don't live in London?

Get your employer to pay for your accommodation in London and travel from where you live to London?
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Tiger Rag
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#75
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(Original post by Quady)
Don't live in London?

Get your employer to pay for your accommodation in London and travel from where you live to London?
Because moving when you've got a child at school and job in London is so easy...
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DarthRoar
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Anonymous1502)
if you work 8 hours 5 days a week
So not really a hugely time consuming job.

(Original post by Anonymous1502)
6GBP per hour after tax
No it's still 7.50

(Original post by Anonymous1502)
I just don't see how anyone can survive with such a low wage
(Original post by Anonymous1502)
For that sort of wage you would get a box room, food, travel pay and basics to survive
Okay so you do have the basics to survive on.

(Original post by Anonymous1502)
they [politicians] are probably living a fairly comfortable life I would love to see how they would make ends meet with such a small salary
Yes, because they've worked a little bit to get where they are. Some started out as rich kiddies, but some were once on minimum wage.

(Original post by Anonymous1502)
it does not mean that I think anyone should have such a low wage
Why? What if that's what their skills are worth.

(Original post by Anonymous1502)
which outrages me
Step back.

(Original post by Anonymous1502)
different for certain ages what gives someone the right to pay someone more for the same amount of work just because they are older
Except less experienced people (e.g 16 year olds) are inexperienced, will need more guidance, and therefore contribute less than someone older would, hence less pay.

Please take your socialism elsewhere.
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The Good Doctor
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#77
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(Original post by nymphielymphie)
Some of you are talking out of your backsides, ever lived in London? Yes, the London Wages are starting to come in but only for 25+.

A room in London is £400-£800 per month depending on area, bathroom/kitchen facilities and why the owner is renting it out. It is pretty uncommon to work in one's home area, so you're looking at a £24/week bus pass or a £30-£60/week travel card. But you know, people on rooms manage. Single people and couples, they get by on instant noodles and sleeping on the floor.

But what if you want to rent a whole house because you have a child? Absolutely cheapest I've heard of is £950 + bills in SW Zone 5, but my friend's mom pays £1450 for a two bedroom house the size of an average classroom in a Streatham side road. On top of that is around £120/month council tax, and don't forget that water, electricity and gas are actually charged at a higher rate in London than outside of it.

And under 25s don't get London Wages. Landlords are adjusting prices to accommodate the LW introduction, leaving us youngsters who want to become independent behind.

It's easy for people to talk about things like this when they have Bank of Mum and Dad open 24/7 with all the funds ever needed available at a whim
All you've done is say some general areas are too expensive for people on minimum wage. The way to solve that is so simple... don't live in those areas! It's not rocket science! It's like a minimum wage American moaning that they can't live in Beverely Hills. Just live outside of central London in somewhere like Beckenham, Bromley, Croydon or Stratford and take a train in. Perfectly practical and perfectly affordable. A quick search online reveals rooms below 300 a month in these areas.

And if you don't have enough money then don't have children!

You are painting a false victimhood narrative from people who have made terrible financial decisions. They made their own beds and now they must lie in them.
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Quady
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(Original post by Tiger Rag)
Because moving when you've got a child at school and job in London is so easy...
If you'd rather stay in London then cool.

I'm pretty sure there are people out there who have moved from one place to another. Your kid doesn't need to stay at the same school.

Its not like London has suddenly become expensive either, nor is it a low wage city.
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nymphielymphie
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#79
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(Original post by Quady)
Don't live in London?

Get your employer to pay for your accommodation in London and travel from where you live to London?
1) To move out of London you have to first save up enough money. I still live with my parents and even with two above-minimum incomes, my partner and I are struggling to come up with the funds to move out.

2) If your employer pays minimum wage, they sure as hell won't be subsidising your travel or accommodation lol are you actually being serious? Have you ever worked a day in your life?
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Quady
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(Original post by nymphielymphie)
1) To move out of London you have to first save up enough money. I still live with my parents and even with two above-minimum incomes, my partner and I are struggling to come up with the funds to move out.

2) If your employer pays minimum wage, they sure as hell won't be subsidising your travel or accommodation lol are you actually being serious? Have you ever worked a day in your life?
1) How??? Moving out of London is no more difficult than moving out anywhere else. If you can't manage to save while living with parents I'm a bit perplexed. I managed to while lodging - where does a grand a month go?

2) Get a different employer/job who will?

Yes, I moved out when I was 18 and not returned. I've had jobs under NMW (when NMW didn't apply to under 18s), had a zero hours contract at a petrol station and right now I'm in London working for the public sector and will be flying home on Thurs.
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