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Maths C3 - Logs and Exponentials... HELP???

Can someone explain why this is?...

exlna=ax e^{x ln a} = a^x

I can't seem to understand how :frown:

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Original post by Philip-flop
Can someone explain why this is?...

exlna=ax e^{x ln a} = a^x

I can't seem to understand how :frown:


If you understand that elna=ae^{ln a}=a, then the rest is simply application of (ab)cabc(a^b)^c \equiv a^{bc}, as exlna(elna)x(a1)xaxe^{x ln a} \equiv (e^{ln a})^x \equiv (a^1)^x \equiv a^x. I hope this is clear :smile:
Original post by _gcx
If you understand that elna=ae^{ln a}=a, then the rest is simply application of (ab)cabc(a^b)^c \equiv a^{bc}, as exlna(elna)x(a1)xaxe^{x ln a} \equiv (e^{ln a})^x \equiv (a^1)^x \equiv a^x. I hope this is clear :smile:


That's the thing, I dont think I quite understand elna=a e^{lna} = a
Original post by Philip-flop
That's the thing, I dont think I quite understand elna=a e^{lna} = a


Let's consider the equation ea=be^a = b. How would we find aa in terms of bb?
when you have eln{something}

it is always = something
Original post by _gcx
Let's consider the equation ea=be^a = b. How would we find aa in terms of bb?


By taking logs to both sides. Then on the LHS use the "log power rule" to bring the constant a to the front. So... a = ln(b)
Original post by Philip-flop
By taking logs to both sides. Then on the LHS use the "log power rule" to bring the constant a to the front. So... a = ln(b)


So elnb=be^{ln b}=b, as you have proved. This, in essence, is due to the definition of the natural logarithm; natural logarithms gives the exponent to which a base, in this case ee, has to be raised to, to produce the argument, in this case aa or bb. Hence, elna=ae^{ln a} = a, for all real aa, a0a \neq 0.
Original post by _gcx
So elnb=be^{ln b}=b, as you have proved. This, in essence, is due to the definition of the natural logarithm; natural logarithms gives the exponent to which a base, in this case ee, has to be raised to, to produce the argument, in this case aa or bb. Hence, elna=ae^{ln a} = a, for all real aa, a0a \neq 0.


Aren't you in year 11:eek:
I still don't really understand :frown:
Original post by fleky6910
Aren't you in year 11:eek:


Indeed I am.

Original post by Philip-flop
I still don't really understand :frown:


Which bit is the source of confusion? :smile:
Original post by _gcx
Indeed I am.



Which bit is the source of confusion? :smile:

Ok so I understand what you get me to work out....

ea=b e^a = b

lnea=lnb ln e^a = ln b

alne=lnb a ln e = ln b

a=lnb a = ln b


but for some reason I'm still not sure how that relates to... exlna=ax e^{xlna} = a^x :frown:
Reply 11
Original post by Philip-flop
That's the thing, I dont think I quite understand elna=a e^{lna} = a

An approach that may make sense to you:

lna×lne=lna\ln a \times \ln e = \ln a

(true since lne=1\ln e = 1)

Using the log power rule as you call it:

lnelna=lna\ln e^{\ln a} = \ln a

Then "cancelling out the logs":

elna=a\Rightarrow e^{\ln a} = a
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by notnek
An approach that may make sense to you:

lna×lne=lna\ln a \times \ln e = \ln a

(true since lne=1\ln e = 1)

Using the log power rule as you call it:

lnelna=lna\ln e^{\ln a} = \ln a

Then "cancelling out the logs":

elna=a\Rightarrow e^{\ln a} = a

Thank you, having yet another perspective has managed to clear this up I think :smile:

But how about the fact that...
exlna=ax e^{x ln a} = a^x ?

edit: wait, I think I can actually see how now!
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 13
Original post by Philip-flop
Thank you, having yet another perspective has managed to clear this up I think :smile:

But how about the fact that...
exlna=ax e^{x ln a} = a^x ?

This was explained earlier.

By the log power rule:

exlna=elnaxe^{x \ln a} = e^{\ln a^x}

If you're now happy that elna=ae^{\ln{a}} = a for any aa then

elnax=axe^{\ln a^x}= a^x
Original post by notnek
This was explained earlier.

By the log power rule:

exlna=elnaxe^{x \ln a} = e^{\ln a^x}

If you're now happy that elna=ae^{\ln{a}} = a for any aa then

elnax=axe^{\ln a^x}= a^x


Yeah I stupidly realised that after I posted my last comment :colondollar:

Thanks a lot notnek!! :smile:
and thanks @_gcx :smile:
Reply 15
Original post by Philip-flop
That's the thing, I dont think I quite understand elna=a e^{lna} = a

I didn't have time earlier but I'd like to give a more intuitive reason why this is true in addition to the log laws proof I gave earlier:

E.g. consider 2(log28)\displaystyle 2^{\left(\log_2 8\right)}

A logarithm is the power you need to raise a base by to get some number.

So log28\log_2 8 is the power you need to raise the base 2 by to get 8. Obviously this is 3.

Then 2(log28)2^{\left(\log_2 8\right)} means "2 to the power of the thing you need to raise 2 by to get 8".

If you think about it, this is just going to take you back to 8 which means that 2(log28)=82^{\left(\log_2 8\right)}=8.

2x2^x and log2x\log_2 x are inverse functions so one undoes the actions of the other.

Of course a similar principle will help you understand why elogex=xe^{\log_e x} = x
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by notnek
I didn't have time earlier but I'd like to give a more intuitive reason why this is true in addition to the log laws proof I gave earlier:

E.g. consider 2(log28)\displaystyle 2^{\left(\log_2 8\right)}

A logarithm is the power you need to raise a base by to get some number.

So log28\log_2 8 is the power you need to raise the base 2 by to get 8. Obviously this is 3.

Then 2(log28)2^{\left(\log_2 8\right)} means "2 to the power of the thing you need to raise 2 by to get 8".

If you think about it, this is just going to take you back to 8 which means that 2(log28)=82^{\left(\log_2 8\right)}=8. There is some "cancelling" going on here since 2x2^x and log2x\log_2 x are inverse functions.

Of course a similar principle will help you understand why elogex=xe^{\log_e x} = x

Thanks @notnek I'll try to make more sense of this early tomo morning when my brain isn't fried haha :frown:
Original post by notnek
I didn't have time earlier but I'd like to give a more intuitive reason why this is true in addition to the log laws proof I gave earlier:

E.g. consider 2(log28)\displaystyle 2^{\left(\log_2 8\right)}

A logarithm is the power you need to raise a base by to get some number.

So log28\log_2 8 is the power you need to raise the base 2 by to get 8. Obviously this is 3.

Then 2(log28)2^{\left(\log_2 8\right)} means "2 to the power of the thing you need to raise 2 by to get 8".

If you think about it, this is just going to take you back to 8 which means that 2(log28)=82^{\left(\log_2 8\right)}=8. There is some "cancelling" going on here since 2x2^x and log2x\log_2 x are inverse functions.

Of course a similar principle will help you understand why elogex=xe^{\log_e x} = x


Ok so I may still be confused by this :frown:
Original post by Philip-flop
Ok so I may still be confused by this :frown:


You need to be much more specific, Im not sure if it was mentioned in a thread you posted or to someone else, but the more you attempt something and show your working, the more you get out of it.

If a teacher and a student were having a one-to-one and the student showed them a problem and they would say 'help me with this'.

The teacher would then say 'okay, which bit are you not understanding?'

It is a failing of the student if they then say 'I don't know / all of it' - it makes helping really difficult and what they get out of it less significant. A correct answer would be of the form 'I understand this and that but not sure about this bit' or 'I thought about using this method but wasn't sure how to apply it'.

I'm not having a go at you - just that you post many questions, which is fine, but my point is that you need to be much more specific if you're going to ask for help.


This is just saving the time of someone who would have replied to your post with 'which bit? / can you be more specific?'
Original post by Kevin De Bruyne
You need to be much more specific, Im not sure if it was mentioned in a thread you posted or to someone else, but the more you attempt something and show your working, the more you get out of it.

If a teacher and a student were having a one-to-one and the student showed them a problem and they would say 'help me with this'.

The teacher would then say 'okay, which bit are you not understanding?'

It is a failing of the student if they then say 'I don't know / all of it' - it makes helping really difficult and what they get out of it less significant. A correct answer would be of the form 'I understand this and that but not sure about this bit' or 'I thought about using this method but wasn't sure how to apply it'.

I'm not having a go at you - just that you post many questions, which is fine, but my point is that you need to be much more specific if you're going to ask for help.


This is just saving the time of someone who would have replied to your post with 'which bit? / can you be more specific?'


Yeah sorry. I'm normally really good at explaining what it is that I'm specifically struggling with.

It's this part that I don't really understand :frown:
...

"...Then 2(log28)2^{\left(\log_2 8\right)} means "2 to the power of the thing you need to raise 2 by to get 8".

If you think about it, this is just going to take you back to 8 which means that 2(log28)=82^{\left(\log_2 8\right)}=8. There is some "cancelling" going on here since 2x2^x and log2x\log_2 x are inverse functions.

Of course a similar principle will help you understand why elogex=xe^{\log_e x} = x "
(edited 6 years ago)

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