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Maths C3 - Logs and Exponentials... HELP???

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Reply 20
Original post by Philip-flop
Yeah sorry. I'm normally really good at explaining what it is that I'm specifically struggling with.

It's this part that I don't really understand :frown:
...

"...Then 2(log28)2^{\left(\log_2 8\right)} means "2 to the power of the thing you need to raise 2 by to get 8".

If you think about it, this is just going to take you back to 8 which means that 2(log28)=82^{\left(\log_2 8\right)}=8. There is some "cancelling" going on here since 2x2^x and log2x\log_2 x are inverse functions.

Of course a similar principle will help you understand why elogex=xe^{\log_e x} = x "

It's good that you're trying to understand this but don't spend too long thinking about it! In the exam you can quote elnx=xe^{\ln x} = x without explanation/proof and I think you already understand the proof I gave you using log laws.

I'll show you an alternative thought process below but I still feel the explanation in my previous post was better and I can't really explain it more. So here's another way to think of it:

log28\log_2 8

This is the power you need to raise 2 by to get 8. So log28\log_2 8 is the solution of the equation

2x=82^x=8

So here xx is log28\log_2 8.

Then 2log282^{\log_2 8} is the same as 2x2^x which is 8 using the equation above.
Original post by notnek
It's good that you're trying to understand this but don't spend too long thinking about it! In the exam you can quote elnx=xe^{\ln x} = x without explanation/proof and I think you already understand the proof I gave you using log laws.

I'll show you an alternative thought process below but I still feel the explanation in my previous post was better and I can't really explain it more. So here's another way to think of it:

log28\log_2 8

This is the power you need to raise 2 by to get 8. So log28\log_2 8 is the solution of the equation

2x=82^x=8

So here xx is log28\log_2 8.

Then 2log282^{\log_2 8} is the same as 2x2^x which is 8 using the equation above.


Oh yeah I can understand that...

log28=x8=2x \log_2 8 = x \Rightarrow 8 = 2^x

So since x=log28 x = \log_2 8 then we can sub this value of x into 2x=8 2^x = 8 which implies 2log28=8 \Rightarrow 2^{\log_2 8} = 8
So I'm having a dull moment yet again. Can someone tell me whether there is a difference between the following?...


ln(3)x ln (3)^x

and...
ln(3x) ln (3^x)

Is it even possible to use the "log power rule" on the second one to give?...
xln(3) x ln (3) ??
Original post by Philip-flop
So I'm having a dull moment yet again. Can someone tell me whether there is a difference between the following?...


ln(3)x ln (3)^x

and...
ln(3x) ln (3^x)

Is it even possible to use the "log power rule" on the second one to give?...
xln(3) x ln (3) ??


There is no difference. And yes.
Reply 24
Original post by RDKGames
There is no difference. And yes.

Yes there is.

E.g. log(3)2=log3×log3\log (3)^2 = \log 3 \times \log 3

log(32)=2log3\log(3^2) = 2\log 3


@Philip-flop You can only use the log law for log(ax)\log(a^x).

log(a)x\log(a)^x is a different thing.
Original post by notnek
Yes there is.

E.g. log(3)2=log3×log3\log (3)^2 = \log 3 \times \log 3

log(32)=2log3\log(3^2) = 2\log 3


@Philip-flop You can only use the log law for log(ax)\log(a^x).

log(a)x\log(a)^x is a different thing.


From what I've seen, log(a)log(a)=log2(a)\log(a)\log(a)=\log^2(a) just like sin(x)sin(x)=sin2(x)\sin(x)\sin(x)=\sin^2(x)

Then log(a)n\log(a)^n just refers to the entire thing inside the log being raised to nn, which is a useful notation if aa is an long or complicated expression.
Reply 26
Original post by RDKGames
From what I've seen, log(a)log(a)=log2(a)\log(a)\log(a)=\log^2(a) just like sin(x)sin(x)=sin2(x)\sin(x)\sin(x)=\sin^2(x)

Then log(a)n\log(a)^n just refers to the entire thing inside the log being raised to nn, which is a useful notation if aa is an long or complicated expression.

Yes I've seen the notation logna\log^n a used which is equivalent to log(a)n\log(a)^n just like sinna\sin^n a is equivalent to sin(a)n\sin(a)^n.

In A Level log(a)n\log(a)^n would mean (log(a))n(\log(a))^n. Are you sure you've seen it mean log(an)\log(a^n)? This doesn't feel right.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by notnek
Yes I've seen the notation logan\log^a n used which is equivalent to log(n)a\log(n)^a just like sinan\sin^a n is equivalent to sin(n)a\sin(n)^a.

In A Level log(n)a\log(n)^a would mean (log(n))a(\log(n))^a. Are you sure you've seen it mean log(na)\log(n^a)? This doesn't feel right.


Maybe I haven't seen it at A-Level, but I've been exposed to it at uni. For example, in one of my courseworks in Semester 1 we were asked to differentiate some expression which contained log(sin(x)x2)2\displaystyle \log \left( \frac{\sin(x)}{x-2} \right)^2. At first I took this to be log squared, but then we were told that it means log of the inside squared, and I had to change it.

Also some books I've read contained this, but most were very explicit by adding saying log[(...)n]\log[(...)^n] instead and referred to an exponent of a log as logn\log^n


I guess it's not quite the same at A-Level, don't really remember anything on this matter from back then.
Original post by notnek
Yes there is.

E.g. log(3)2=log3×log3\log (3)^2 = \log 3 \times \log 3

log(32)=2log3\log(3^2) = 2\log 3


@Philip-flop You can only use the log law for log(ax)\log(a^x).

log(a)x\log(a)^x is a different thing.


Yes that was what I had come across before! Couldn't remember which one you could use the log power rule on!

@RDKGames and @notnek but now I'm confused between..
log2(a),log(a)2,[log(a)]2 log^2 (a), log(a)^2, [log(a)]^2 to me these are all the same but the second one is debatable and can be misleading!
Reply 29
Original post by Philip-flop
Yes that was what I had come across before! Couldn't remember which one you could use the log power rule on!

@RDKGames and @notnek but now I'm confused between..
log2(a),log(a)2,[log(a)]2 log^2 (a), log(a)^2, [log(a)]^2 to me these are all the same but the second one is debatable and can be misleading!

Normally log(a)2=(log(a))2\log(a)^2 = (\log (a))^2 and sin(a)2=(sin(a))2\sin(a)^2 = (\sin (a))^2 and you'll see it like that here for example.

But it can be ambiguous so you probably wouldn't see it like that in an exam without more brackets.
Original post by notnek
Normally log(a)2=(log(a))2\log(a)^2 = (\log (a))^2 and sin(a)2=(sin(a))2\sin(a)^2 = (\sin (a))^2 and you'll see it like that here for example.

But it can be ambiguous so you probably wouldn't see it like that in an exam without more brackets.


Yeah it can definitely be a bit ambiguous when it's written without the brackets. But it still makes sense!

Thank you :smile:
Is this all for gcse level?!
Reply 32
Original post by ChelseaWindsor
Is this all for gcse level?!

No this is all A Level.
Original post by notnek
No this is all A Level.



Phew, thought i was going all dumb for a moment.
Original post by ChelseaWindsor
Is this all for gcse level?!


No need to worry, this is for A-level C3 Maths. I didn't realise there was a C3 module for GCSE as well?

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