The Student Room Group

Mathematical prowess or just a specialised and peculiar skill?

The 1950s are popularly perceived to be the golden age of education and large numbers of people who attended school during this decade lament the decline in educational standards over the decades.

British primary school children in the 1950s spent a large amount of time mastering money calculations using pounds, shillings, and pence. After Britain converted to decimal currency in 1971 children no longer needed to understand, or perform calculations, using ‘old’ money.

Did the change to decimal currency result in a decline in standards in mathematics or was the ability to perform calculations in pounds, shillings, and pence just a specialised skill for a peculiar national situation?

It is notable that the countries where students are ahead of British students when it comes to mathematical ability were using a decimal currency and metric measurements in the 1950s.

My theory is that any real (not perceived) decline in mathematical ability of British students since the early 1970s is not the result of a change to a decimal currency but the result of schools not reallocating the time formerly used to teach pounds, shillings, and pence to teaching ‘real’ mathematical topics that other countries were teaching until around 1990.
Hi,
I have witnessed the decline in mathematical skills in UK both first-hand through teaching, and as a secondary observation in any well-known retail store where the till-operators do not have the foggiest as to what the total purchase value or resulting change should be (which, in case of an error, can work in favour of the store OR the customer!), and rely entirely on tech to work these figures out. I believe the principal reason is the teaching strategies of maths in UK, whereby students are encouraged to substitute values into equations mechanically without any attempt at understanding the reasons why or the principles of the underlying subject.

I am strongly of the opinion that the culprit to be blamed for this deterioration is the government, like everything else in life. The policy of the schools, initiated ultimately by the govenment, to not encourage competition (lest less able students feel discouraged!!), in my view, did not, on a more general level, do much to help.

Further, the advent of the habit of some ill-nurtured school pupils dictating what teachers do rather than vice versa only added oil to the fire, and is one fuel for the shameful lack of analytical, interpretative and rationale-based knowledge of many youngsters, and one reason why students often find a big "jump" from school to uni.

Taking just one example of a non-British student community, it is interesting to note that a large number of Chinese students are apparently gifted in mental maths and the capacity to visulaize abstract calculative ideas, in spite of the fact that many of them are poor at spoken English. The latter of course, stems partly from the style of teaching English in Chinese schools these days, which is mostly by written communication. Some years ago, the majority of Chinese students in UK were from Malaysia or Hong Kong, and their verbal English was comparatively very good.

Thank you for a very interesting Q.

M
Original post by macpatelgh
Hi,
I have witnessed the decline in mathematical skills in UK both first-hand through teaching, and as a secondary observation in any well-known retail store where the till-operators do not have the foggiest as to what the total purchase value or resulting change should be (which, in case of an error, can work in favour of the store OR the customer!), and rely entirely on tech to work these figures out. I believe the principal reason is the teaching strategies of maths in UK, whereby students are encouraged to substitute values into equations mechanically without any attempt at understanding the reasons why or the principles of the underlying subject.

I am strongly of the opinion that the culprit to be blamed for this deterioration is the government, like everything else in life. The policy of the schools, initiated ultimately by the govenment, to not encourage competition (lest less able students feel discouraged!!), in my view, did not, on a more general level, do much to help.

Further, the advent of the habit of some ill-nurtured school pupils dictating what teachers do rather than vice versa only added oil to the fire, and is one fuel for the shameful lack of analytical, interpretative and rationale-based knowledge of many youngsters, and one reason why students often find a big "jump" from school to uni.

Taking just one example of a non-British student community, it is interesting to note that a large number of Chinese students are apparently gifted in mental maths and the capacity to visulaize abstract calculative ideas, in spite of the fact that many of them are poor at spoken English. The latter of course, stems partly from the style of teaching English in Chinese schools these days, which is mostly by written communication. Some years ago, the majority of Chinese students in UK were from Malaysia or Hong Kong, and their verbal English was comparatively very good.

Thank you for a very interesting Q.

M


which government do you blame? There's been a dozen or so since the 50s. And what about all the other interest groups. Unions/Educationalists/parents They take none of the responsibility?
Original post by Sceptical_John
which government do you blame? There's been a dozen or so since the 50s. And what about all the other interest groups. Unions/Educationalists/parents They take none of the responsibility?


Very valid Q - I have no experience of the 50s, 60s OR 70s to be honest; the answer to your Q is that I blame the labour govt who held power for several years before the current Tories' victory - the govt that dictated that if a law-abiding family were quietly enjoying an evening in their home, and some robbers broke in, then the family should sit the crooks down with a five course meal instead of smashing their faces in - the same govt that encouraged parents to go and pick a fight with teachers if the teacher very correctly and justifiably reprimanded a misbehaving pupil - and yes, definitely, parents who bring up their children as arboreal creatures instead of as well-behaved, decent respectful members of society, are also no less culpable.

M
Reply 4
Original post by macpatelgh
I am strongly of the opinion that the culprit to be blamed for this deterioration is the government, like everything else in life.


It's easy to point a finger at the government but it cannot be ignored that English schools had much freedom and autonomy how they taught mathematics from KS1 to KS3 before the National Curriculum established a national framework and set of standards.

From the 1960s through to the late 1980s there much diversity in the way primary schools taught mathematics. Some schools were teacher led. Other schools adopted a specific programme with its own books and teaching resources. Other schools made heavy use of BBC and ITV schools programmes.

There is a conflict between prowess in arithmetic vs knowledge of other mathematical topics when it comes to measuring mathematical ability.

The policy of the schools, initiated ultimately by the govenment, to not encourage competition (lest less able students feel discouraged!!), in my view, did not, on a more general level, do much to help.


Teacher don't like students who are streets ahead of what is expected from their year group in academic subjects. If a 10 year old is proficient at KS4 level mathematics then they are a problem child.
Original post by Arran90
It's easy to point a finger at the government but it cannot be ignored that English schools had much freedom and autonomy how they taught mathematics from KS1 to KS3 before the National Curriculum established a national framework and set of standards.

From the 1960s through to the late 1980s there much diversity in the way primary schools taught mathematics. Some schools were teacher led. Other schools adopted a specific programme with its own books and teaching resources. Other schools made heavy use of BBC and ITV schools programmes.

There is a conflict between prowess in arithmetic vs knowledge of other mathematical topics when it comes to measuring mathematical ability.



Teacher don't like students who are streets ahead of what is expected from their year group in academic subjects. If a 10 year old is proficient at KS4 level mathematics then they are a problem child.


I think your last point regarding teachers being almost threatened by very intelligent students:

A] Only teachers who are not excellent, and perhaps, sorry to say, of the same opinion as the originators of this "discourage competition" idea, in other words, perhaps, too contemporary if that is possible, would be opposed to exceptional students. From the student's point of view (and this is from my own experience of 15 yrs+ ago), whenever I was able to give the teachers a "helping hand", they took it purely positively and were very encouraging.

B] I think the "problem child" aspect of it is much worse from everyone's perspective in the case of extreme misbehaviour, antisocial acts and sheer lack of concern for the wishes of other students who are there to learn and develop than disrupt the progress of their peers, which (fortunately only) a minority of students are capable of.

C] With reference to the same point as in B] above, the problem in this context might actually lie in the premise of the student him/herself rather than the teacher, and perhaps more at the expense of a deficiency in their development of social skills rather than any form of detriment to the teacher.

I think your original post, Arran90 , has raised a crucial issue facing our education system that should be resolved sooner rather than later if we are to avoid "computers (and the word just means "calculators":wink: taking over our role as masters of the earth".

M
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 6
I'm not confident myself that the change to decimal currency has resulted in a decline in standards or if there has even been a decline in standards at all. It could all be in the minds of the older generation.

What I find bizarre are the number of people who attended primary school during the 1950s and 60s, in some cases the 70s, who perform calculations from left to right rather than according to BIDMAS. They say that 7 + 2 x 3 = 27 when the correct answer is 13.

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