Do what's best for Britain - tactical vote against a disastrous Brexit

Watch
Athematica
Badges: 18
#41
Report 4 years ago
#41
(Original post by astutehirstute)
Once Humpty Dumpty is pushed off the wall it may not be possible to put him back together again.
Maybe we should go easy on all the rushing to get the hell out of dodge then, huh?
0
reply
Parametric
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#42
Report 4 years ago
#42
Your 'tactical' vote is not the best for Britain, if it is based purely on voting against Brexit. What's best for Britain right now is accepting the democratic vote in June last year, and voting in this election for each parties overall policies. You have no idea how narrow-minded you sound saying we should vote a party in purely for their plans on the process of leaving the EU. What about health care, education, jobs, funding etc?
Open your eyes, wipe those salty tears, and stop trying to score points.
0
reply
Athematica
Badges: 18
#43
Report 4 years ago
#43
(Original post by Parametric)
Your 'tactical' vote is not the best for Britain, if it is based purely on voting against Brexit. What's best for Britain right now is accepting the democratic vote in June last year, and voting in this election for each parties overall policies. You have no idea how narrow-minded you sound saying we should vote a party in purely for their plans on the process of leaving the EU. What about health care, education, jobs, funding etc?
Open your eyes, wipe those salty tears, and stop trying to score points.
I wonder whether you might agree that even if FOS concedes that it is narrow minded that it certainly is not short-sighted, considering the longer term implications of brexit relative to a 4 year term, regardless of your position on brexit.
0
reply
QE2
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#44
Report 4 years ago
#44
(Original post by astutehirstute)
Democracy is predicated on the principle that the loser accepts the result. It is a sine qua non.
Yes, but it doesn't require the losers to stop campaigning and voting for their preferred result when the system allows it.
According to your logic, democracy works only once. After that, no one can challenge the resulting system. Your argument does not allow for subsequent elections.

If this campaign succeeds (HIGHLY improbable, but for the sake of argument) then I would completely lose any faith in democracy itself and would consider extra parliamentary action as morally legitimate.
But how so? It is merely the British people exercising their democratic right to vote as they see fit.
Are you seriously claiming that an election resulting in a change in government is undemocratic?
Wow! You really have no idea how our democratic system works, do you?

And I wouldn't be alone.
Which merely demonstrates that there is more than one person who doesn't understand how a parliamentary democracy works.

The Remain b!tch needs to be careful. Once Humpty Dumpty is pushed off the wall it may not be possible to put him back together again.
You sound awfully bitter and aggressive. Is it because she is a Brown Foreigner Woman? Is her powerful, wealthy, dark-skinned femininity making you feel an ickle bit emasculated?
Not to worry. Brexit will sort the likes of her out. Britain will once again be a land fit for pale-skinned heroes with a chippy on every corner, the post delivered on time and a proper respect for the authority of our betters. Hussah!
1
reply
Parametric
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#45
Report 4 years ago
#45
(Original post by Athematica)
I wonder whether you might agree that even if FOS concedes that it is narrow minded that it certainly is not short-sighted, considering the longer term implications of brexit relative to a 4 year term, regardless of your position on brexit.
The Brexit policies parties put forward should be a factor to consider, but not the only factor. OP is already labelling Brexit as a disaster; I wonder whether you might agree that that is short-sighted?
0
reply
Athematica
Badges: 18
#46
Report 4 years ago
#46
(Original post by Parametric)
The Brexit policies parties put forward should be a factor to consider, but not the only factor. OP is already labelling Brexit as a disaster; I wonder whether you might agree that that is short-sighted?
I'm just here because I have a crush on Emma. I don't even know what is going on.
0
reply
Athematica
Badges: 18
#47
Report 4 years ago
#47
A more general point: My involvement and investment in these issues is generally contingent on my ability to make an impact rather than it's seriousness or severity. I have a vote and every vote is clearly important and we should invite everybody to vote but I do not feel as though my impact is great enough that I ought to dedicate as much time as others do to an issue they have no great capacity to fix. Spheres of interest and ability must overlap for action to take place. I wonder how so many get so caught up in their emotions that they lose sight of what they can actually do, stuck in the bubble of the drama
0
reply
DJKL
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#48
Report 4 years ago
#48
(Original post by Athematica)
I wonder whether you might agree that even if FOS concedes that it is narrow minded that it certainly is not short-sighted, considering the longer term implications of brexit relative to a 4 year term, regardless of your position on brexit.
Five years surely, but the point is well made.

In the long term all other policy areas, health, education, boil down to economic performance- no money then everything suffers, and the Brexit terms may well be crucial to the longer term economy.

Brexit may end up as high reward, hard Brexit may give higher reward, but most sane individuals appreciate that in life there are no certainties and perceived higher rewards tend, as a rule, to run with higher risks.

So a fair few people, not very keen on Brexit in the first place, those that are risk averse, are seeking some perceived reduction in transition risk, with the view that it is going to be a lot easier to start with greater ties and later sever them, if seen advantageous, that to cut all ties now and then, if things go pear shaped, try to knot them back together.
0
reply
BrainDrain
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#49
Report 4 years ago
#49
(Original post by Athematica)
I'm just here because I have a crush on Emma. I don't even know what is going on.
I wish I had met Emma as I might have a crush on her too, I don't really care what's going on, I leave all that stuff to the clever guys like Corbyn who has two grade E A-levels and such to sort this stuff out
0
reply
TorpidPhil
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#50
Report 4 years ago
#50
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The BBC were covering this theory tonight, it's all based on the idea that Theresa really wants a sensible Brexit but is having to pander to the headbangers of the Tory Right on her backbenches due to her small majority.

The only problem with the theory is that a larger Tory Party in parliament will highly likely include many more hard-Brexit maniacs on a pro rata basis, so she will still have the same problem, only bigger. Admittedly, she wouldn't have to worry so much about losing votes, but she will still have to toe the line.

It also assumes that she herself is a soft Brexiteer, but so far there is precious little evidence of this - at every opportunity, she has chosen a line of authoritarian and undemocratic forcing of a hard Brexit through at all costs.
That's a strange hypothesis though. Since the right wing tory backbenchers whilst rebelling against her moderate agenda would not secure a majority in their own right because who would support them? Surely in such an instance, the lib dems, SNP and labour would all the support the government's agenda... So where is the threat here? If she was part of the right wing agenda, and was fearing more center based backbencher rebels, then that would be more of a threat and I think that is the threat.

I do actually agree that in spite of her starting as a remainer in the public eye during the referendum, that in fact, akin to Corbyn she in reality really is not so keen on the EU. And would be quite happy to try her hand at a 'hard brexit'.
0
reply
paul514
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#51
Report 4 years ago
#51
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
What we are saying is that something that is as disastrous to the future prospects of all of us as stone cold withdrawal with no proper deal from the Single Market should be something that at least we get to review via our elected representatives in Parliament.

What do you imagine Parliament is for exactly, if not this?

Why even bother with elections in view? If Brexiteers are so closed minded and so wildly optimistic about total withdrawal from the Single Market without any deal, why not simply do away with parliament altogether and appoint Nigel Farage as Life Dictator?
We live in a parliamentary democracy


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
Fullofsurprises
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#52
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#52
(Original post by TorpidPhil)
That's a strange hypothesis though. Since the right wing tory backbenchers whilst rebelling against her moderate agenda would not secure a majority in their own right because who would support them? Surely in such an instance, the lib dems, SNP and labour would all the support the government's agenda... So where is the threat here? If she was part of the right wing agenda, and was fearing more center based backbencher rebels, then that would be more of a threat and I think that is the threat.

I do actually agree that in spite of her starting as a remainer in the public eye during the referendum, that in fact, akin to Corbyn she in reality really is not so keen on the EU. And would be quite happy to try her hand at a 'hard brexit'.
Politicians love hiding behind this kind of myth. Another example from recent history was the laughable pretence of Gordon Brown and Ed Balls that they were somehow left wing compared to Blair when they were trying to replace him. In reality they had supported Blairite policies at every stage, they were in some ways to the right of Blair and both were out and out neoliberalism fans, as Balls now quite cheerfully admits.
0
reply
Athematica
Badges: 18
#53
Report 4 years ago
#53
Balls is such an awful name for a politician. No wonder he'll never be Prime Minister. Unless we have another Boaty McBoatFace moment

President Balls, you're needed in the situation room
0
reply
Fullofsurprises
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#54
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#54
(Original post by Athematica)
Balls is such an awful name for a politician. No wonder he'll never be Prime Minister. Unless we have another Boaty McBoatFace moment

President Balls, you're needed in the situation room
Mr Putin, I have Balls for you on line 2, would you like me to hold?
0
reply
astutehirstute
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#55
Report 4 years ago
#55
(Original post by QE2)
Yes, but it doesn't require the losers to stop campaigning and voting for their preferred result when the system allows it.
According to your logic, democracy works only once. After that, no one can challenge the resulting system. Your argument does not allow for subsequent elections.

But how so? It is merely the British people exercising their democratic right to vote as they see fit.
Are you seriously claiming that an election resulting in a change in government is undemocratic?
Wow! You really have no idea how our democratic system works, do you?

Which merely demonstrates that there is more than one person who doesn't understand how a parliamentary democracy works.

You sound awfully bitter and aggressive. Is it because she is a Brown Foreigner Woman? Is her powerful, wealthy, dark-skinned femininity making you feel an ickle bit emasculated?
Not to worry. Brexit will sort the likes of her out. Britain will once again be a land fit for pale-skinned heroes with a chippy on every corner, the post delivered on time and a proper respect for the authority of our betters. Hussah!
At best your argument is a recipe for endless reruns of votes, with each side refusing to accept defeat, division, weakness, inaction and strife. We will never see the end of enfeebled government with no time for anything else.

At worst, if you overturn the biggest ever vote in our history, on a matter of such importance you will have destroyed democracy itself.
0
reply
Kid_Chameleon
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#56
Report 4 years ago
#56
I live in an area where the Tories get 50% of the vote without lifting a finger so my vote won't have much impact on the final result but I plan to vote Lib Dem. They're the only party that can stop May from getting a blank cheque on Brexit.
0
reply
l'etranger
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#57
Report 4 years ago
#57
(Original post by Athematica)
Balls is such an awful name for a politician. No wonder he'll never be Prime Minister. Unless we have another Boaty McBoatFace moment

President Balls, you're needed in the situation room
To be fair so is Gina.
0
reply
Bang Outta Order
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#58
Report 4 years ago
#58
(Original post by r3035)
What you are really saying is we should stay in the EU, or keep having a referendum until you get the result you want.

You are completely pathetic.
lol
0
reply
Bang Outta Order
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#59
Report 4 years ago
#59
(Original post by Athematica)
Balls is such an awful name for a politician. No wonder he'll never be Prime Minister. Unless we have another Boaty McBoatFace moment

President Balls, you're needed in the situation room
:rofl:

I know someone named ..actually I can't say it here
0
reply
username2228735
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#60
Report 4 years ago
#60
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
When we leave the Single Market without a deal, trust me, third world status for the UK will beckon. The Tories can sell all the weapons they like to Saudi Arabia, it's not going to meet the huge drop in trade and income we derive from the EU.
Trust you? On what basis? Can you foresee the future?
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Poll: What factors affect your mental health most right now? Post-lockdown edition

Anxiousness about restrictions easing (55)
6.06%
Uncertainty around my education (101)
11.14%
Uncertainty around my future career prospects (99)
10.92%
Lack of purpose or motivation (112)
12.35%
Lack of support system (eg. teachers, counsellors, delays in care) (44)
4.85%
Impact lockdown had on physical health (49)
5.4%
Social worries (incl. loneliness/making friends) (101)
11.14%
Financial worries (62)
6.84%
Concern about myself or my loves ones getting/having been ill (41)
4.52%
Exposure to negative news/social media (56)
6.17%
Difficulty accessing real life entertainment (26)
2.87%
Lack of confidence in making big life decisions (87)
9.59%
Worry about missed opportunities during the pandemic (74)
8.16%

Watched Threads

View All