Why do Americans love guns so much seriously...?

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What has to be taken into account is the huge gang problem in the USA which would account for the bulk of the murders. Their guns are not acquired legally.

The reality is that even if guns were banned in the US those who want them would still find a way to get them so then you have the situation where bad guys have guns but good guys don't. Just makes it easy pickings for the gangs, more police needed on the streets and more innocent people getting killed.

You could no more get guns off the streets than get drugs off the streets.

Then why aren't drugs all legalized, then?

At the very least, banning guns will take guns away from toddlers, who are shooting people (including themselves) every week in the US. Or are you going to make the argument that babies will start obtaining illegally as well?

Can you give me one example of an untrained resident using a gun to stop bad guys from doing what they were doing without making it worse?

Reply 21

nutz99

Original post by Little Toy Gun

You must have voted for Clinton as you appear to be in your own little liberal bubble.

Do you realise that illicit drugs take more lives than guns, and that's just the overdoses let alone how many other drug related killings there are.

How many toddlers do you think are killed by drugs?

Do you really want the gangs taking over the streets, robbing and killing anyone they want because that is what you are advocating.

If you want examples of residents protecting themselves from robbers then just google it - there are thousands but I can't be arsed to do it for you! I suppose I shouldn't just assume that a liberal can do that on their own.

Reply 22

El Salvador

Original post by nutz99

You must have voted for Clinton as you appear to be in your own little liberal bubble.

Typical American seeing everything through extremely limited American lens.

I have never lived in the US so why would I have voted for Secretary Clinton or indeed any American politician for any American office?

Original post by nutz99

Do you realise that illicit drugs take more lives than guns, and that's just the overdoses let alone how many other drug related killings there are.

I'm not sure what kind of bubble you're living in, then.

Because:
22000 people die every year in the US due to illicit drugs overdose.
33599 people die every year in the US due to a gun shot.

Perhaps in the illiberal mind, 22k is bigger than 34k, but in the real world, 34k + 22k.

Let me give you the order of numbers just in case you haven't learned it back in kindergarten: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

Original post by nutz99

How many toddlers do you think are killed by drugs?

How is that related to anything I said?

So because toddlers don't get killed by drugs, we should ban drugs; but since toddlers get killed by guns, we shouldn't ban them? Why do you hate babies so much?

This is without mentioning the fact that I wasn't even talking about infants dying but rather the fact that these very young children get to use a gun and shoot people, on a weekly basis.

Original post by nutz99

Do you really want the gangs taking over the streets, robbing and killing anyone they want because that is what you are advocating.

Is it?

Because I don't see that happening in Hong Kong, Singapore, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, Korea etc or indeed any part of the developed world that banned guns.

I also don't see it happening outside of the developed world - there's no gangs taking over the streets, robbing and killing anyone they want in Mexico or Cambodia or Papua New Guinea.

It doesn't even happen in the most dangerous countries like Brazil or Honduras or El Salvador.

But then, have you been to any of these countries? Have you even been outside of your own physical bubble?

Original post by nutz99

If you want examples of residents protecting themselves from robbers then just google it - there are thousands but I can't be arsed to do it for you! I suppose I shouldn't just assume that a liberal can do that on their own.

So I guess there isn't even one single example then.

But then, what can I expect from someone whose first reaction to an opposing point of view is to (mis)label and insult with irrelevant stuff?

---

Also, you seem to have issues with your comprehension. My comment on legalizing drugs was a response to your comment "You could no more get guns off the streets than get drugs off the streets."

You were the one who randomly brought drugs up and made a comparison to prove your point. I was merely getting you to elaborate on your analogy if you think the two are so very comparable.

But it turns out they aren't comparable even in your own mind.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 23

nutz99

Original post by Little Toy Gun

So why in the hell does your profile show your location as America. Do you not know where you live? Do you have one of those stickers on your t-shirt that says "if lost return to......"

Original post by Little Toy Gun

I'm not sure what kind of bubble you're living in, then.

Because:

22000 people die every year in the US due to illicit drugs overdose.

33599 people die every year in the US due to a gun shot.

Perhaps in the illiberal mind, 22k is bigger than 34k, but in the real world, 34k + 22k.

Let me give you the order of numbers just in case you haven't learned it back in kindergarten: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

Instead of the mickey mouse site you used I use sites that supply accurate figures -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34996604 - 13286 people killed by firearms in 2015.
In case big numbers confuse you that means there are more overdose deaths than gun deaths.

Original post by Little Toy Gun

But you brought up legalising drugs, I didn't.

Original post by Little Toy Gun

I also don't see it happening outside of the developed world - there's no gangs taking over the streets, robbing and killing anyone they want in Mexico or Cambodia or Papua New Guinea.

It doesn't even happen in the most dangerous countries like Brazil or Honduras or El Salvador.

You are seriously out of touch with reality. Just unbelievable.

Original post by Little Toy Gun

So I guess there isn't even one single example then.

Hopefully this will shut you up but I very much doubt it. This is pretty much an every day occurrence in the US. Most burglars carry guns - as a homeowner if you don't have one then you're dead!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4356012/Three-teenage-burglars-shot-dead-resident.html

I do have some concerns that you were unable to find this information by yourself so if you would like some help my 8 year-old nephew is free most evenings and weekends. He is pretty good on Google for a munchkin.

Reply 24

El Salvador

Original post by nutz99

So why in the hell does your profile show your location as America. Do you not know where you live? Do you have one of those stickers on your t-shirt that says "if lost return to......"

Once again, typical American not being able to comprehend beyond one's own worldview.

"America" is the name of two continents that contain a handful of countries. I am residing in one of them. I can't fault you for your country not actually having a name, but at least try not to understand the world based on your own very limited knowledge of it!

Even still, being in a country doesn't mean I have the right to vote; the fact that I have the flag of Hong Kong on my profile should make it less likely for me to be a citizen of any country that's not Hong Kong.

Original post by nutz99

13286 count only murders, not including suicides.

22k drug overdose includes suicides and very few murders.

So why are you intentionally choosing a number that reflects only your reality? Oh right, because you have no real evidence and need to twist it to support your claim.

Original post by nutz99

But you brought up legalising drugs, I didn't.

Your argument was "guns can't be taken away like drugs can't be, so guns can't be banned"; so my question was why then were drugs banned, when they, according to you, similarly cannot be taken away.

Original post by nutz99

You are seriously out of touch with reality. Just unbelievable.

The one who's out of touch with reality is you.

Have you been to Mexico, Brazil, Honduras, or El Salvador? I have. In fact, I've been living in Mexico and have visited 19 of its states + the capital so I should think I can speak on the matter better than you do.

There's no gangs on the streets shooting and robbing anyone they like. The violence problem in Mexico at least is not anything different from that of Chicago's.

Perhaps you are alien to the concept, but in the civilized world, we have something called the police who are in charge of catching and fighting the bad (not to be confused with black) guys.

Original post by nutz99

Finally! So now I can give you a case of a victim shooting back making it worse:
http://www.wdsu.com/article/researchers-find-copy-of-declaration-of-independence/9544463
An armed robber tried to rob an armed citizen, armed citizen opened fire and as a result innocent passers-by have also been shot.
“This is a very unnecessary thing, to open fire on anyone, much less an innocent bystander not even standing there to be struck and killed by this,” New Orleans Police Chief Michael Harrison said.

That poor victim from Honduras though, leaving what is perceived to be a dangerous country only to move to what also is a very dangerous country to die.

You seem to have the tendency to judge very quickly, very superficially, based on your personal experience. So hopefully I have taught you a thing or two by now. If not, I suspect your 8-year-old nephew could.

Reply 25

nutz99

Original post by Little Toy Gun

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence could tell that I am not American.

Original post by Little Toy Gun

But it is still legal to own a gun and illegal to have drugs. If drugs were legal then deaths from drugs would increase but there is nothing to suggest that if guns were made illegal the murder rate would drop.

I'm not saying that I agree with guns but with the situation that the US is in, there is no simple and safe way to go from owning guns to not owning guns. The bad guys still have them but the good guys don't - how would that pan out?

Original post by Little Toy Gun

Pretty much every country on this planet has a problem with gangs, some worse than others. What's your point? The gangs exist. Simply because you haven't encountered them does not mean anything.

From what you say I very much doubt if you know what the civilised world really looks like!

Original post by Little Toy Gun

Finally! So now I can give you a case of a victim shooting back making it worse:
http://www.wdsu.com/article/research...ndence/9544463
An armed robber tried to rob an armed citizen, armed citizen opened fire and as a result innocent passers-by have also been shot.
“This is a very unnecessary thing, to open fire on anyone, much less an innocent bystander not even standing there to be struck and killed by this,” New Orleans Police Chief Michael Harrison said.

That poor victim from Honduras though, leaving what is perceived to be a dangerous country only to move to what also is a very dangerous country to die.

Now there's a surprise, you have tried to use Google without any help. Just a pity your link has no connection to the story you posted. Whoops!

Besides how many police have shot innocent bystanders. It happens.

Anyway you really are boring me. Nothing you have posted is interesting or inspiring or of any real relevance to this thread and suggest you might just be an egotistical jerk so I would not love to converse with you again so welcome to my ignore list.

Reply 26

El Salvador

Original post by nutz99

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence could tell that I am not American.

Then it's even worse that your first reaction to people who disagree with you is to label someone as a Clinton voter. So blind you don't live in the physical world any more.

Original post by nutz99

You can very well say murder rate may not drop, and I'm not saying they will, despite the fact that there is a correlation between banning guns and lower murder rate in the developed world.

Your problem is you're claiming not only that murder rates would go up, but that the country would turn into a literal war zone, which if you look at literally any country, you'd know is not the case.

Original post by nutz99

I'm not saying that I agree with guns but with the situation that the US is in, there is no simple and safe way to go from owning guns to not owning guns. The bad guys still have them but the good guys don't - how would that pan out?

The US's gun ownership is indeed already too high to control and there is no quick fix. And honestly, I couldn't care less if American babies kill everyone since it'll be one of the last places I want to live in, alongside Syria and Afghanistan probably.

With US surveillance being so comprehensive, however, it is definitely not impossible for the government to at least begin to have a database on where the guns are. And in fact, they do know where much of the guns are. To solve the gun problem, it will have to be a very gradual process, starting with having federal strict gun laws (Washington DC banning open carrying or guns whilst ownership is mostly free resulting in a 24% gun ownership does not count as "strict") which can only happen if the second amendment is repealed.

The other way of going about it would be to go the Swiss way. Let people have their guns but go through mandatory training.

Original post by nutz99

Pretty much every country on this planet has a problem with gangs, some worse than others. What's your point? The gangs exist. Simply because you haven't encountered them does not mean anything.

Is English your first language? You're really struggling with it, aren't you?

The point is clear: It's a response to your saying without guns, streets will be roamed over by gangs who shoot and rob everyone. That doesn't happen in any country to that extent (or you should be seeing Aleppo-esque departure from Honduras and El Salvador - they could mostly freely move to Guatemala and eventually Mexico, or relatively easy to the much safer Costa Rica, yet most of their populations have stayed in their countries unlike Syrians), and Americans having guns did not make the US safer than any of those dangerous central and south American countries.

I think your big problem is either you just divert when you're losing the argument, or you have no memory whatsoever of what arguments and claims you have been making.

Original post by nutz99

From what you say I very much doubt if you know what the civilised world really looks like!

I guess someone born in Hong Kong, educated in Australia and England, visited 36 countries just have no idea how the world is like.

Original post by nutz99

Now there's a surprise, you have tried to use Google without any help. Just a pity your link has no connection to the story you posted. Whoops!

Once again, you don't seem to remember the context.

I asked you to give me an example of a case where an armed victim shot back and didn't make the situation worse.

You gave me one.

I then gave you an example of a case where an armed victim shooting back making the situation worse.

The point is, quite frankly, fairly obvious: having armed victims isn't exactly a good protection when there's at least an equal chance for the response to be worse.

Original post by nutz99

Besides how many police have shot innocent bystanders. It happens.

Indeed. But would you say it's more likely for a trained personnel to accidentally shoot innocent people or is it more likely for an untrained one to accidentally shoot innocent people?

Mind you, these untrained persons are sometimes minors (I trust the babies who shot people weren't trying to protect themselves).

Original post by nutz99

Anyway you really are boring me. Nothing you have posted is interesting or inspiring or of any real relevance to this thread and suggest you might just be an egotistical jerk so I would not love to converse with you again so welcome to my ignore list.

Translation: I have lost the argument but instead of conceding I will claim the moral high-ground and pretend my superior opponent is beneath me.

Egotistical jerk though? Who's the one who keeps insulting one's opponent? Who's the one who keeps making groundless assumptions? Who's the one who rejects numbers?

During this short conversation, you have randomly assumed I was a Clinton voter, that "America" must mean the US even after I said I had never lived in the US, that I didn't know there were cases with victims shooting back, and you have failed time after time to understand direct responses to your many claims.

You have demonstrated your severe lack of ability to think outside of your limited worldview, and that, my dear, is the very definitely of being egotistical.

Reply 27

Katzen

YEE-HAW I LOVE ME SOME GOOD OL' FREEDOM! Hot diggity dog I remember back in my days in the South I had my father and he told me "God darn it Bill, those damn communists are coming here to the :innocent:

ing US of A and they're gonna take it over! Bill, here have my AK-47 and make sure you shoot those damn communists screaming 'IT'S CALLED THE AK-MOTHER :innocent:

ING-47, NOT KALASHNIKOV YOU DAMN RUSKIES!' YEEEEE-HAW!

Now I look at my son and I tell him 'John, those damn Muslims are coming here to the :innocent:

ing US of A and they're gonna take it over! John, here have my Bible and make sure you wack those damn Muslims screaming 'HE'S CALLED JESUS :innocent:

ING CHRIST! NOT PROPHET ISA YOU DAMN MUHAMMADANS YEEE-HAW!"

---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------

And yes this is a joke, TSR please stop sending me warnings I don't want to get deported back to Reddit.

Reply 28

RF_PineMarten

Original post by Allie4

I would agree... but in all honesty I would buy a gun or two if it was legal in the UK

Some guns are legal, but you need a license. For that you need to have a good reason for owning them, and secure safes to store the guns and ammunition in. Farmers, gamekeepers and people who shoot as a sport will have gun licenses. Air rifles below a certain power you don't even need a license for.

Original post by Steljoy

I feel safe here :u:

Not denying the US has a problem, but is that data adjusted for population? Normally these sort of figures are presented as per 100,000 people or something like that. Not "this many people were killed in a year in these countries".

Reply 29

username2877554

Original post by RF_PineMarten

Oh it wasn't a statistical post dude, It was just a random picture :h:

Reply 30

RF_PineMarten

Original post by Little Toy Gun

At the very least, banning guns will take guns away from toddlers, who are shooting people (including themselves) every week in the US. Or are you going to make the argument that babies will start obtaining illegally as well?

I get wanting to have more restrictions, but totally banning guns is a completely stupid idea. There are legitimate reasons for people to own guns. Something which so many people don't seem to realise, judging by the inevitable comments whenever this issue gets brought up.

Why does the discussion always immediately jump to total bans rather than just tighter restrictions and background checks?

Reply 31

Quixote.

Original post by Faloodeh

land of the free :drool:

This is literally the opening to the "The Interview", minus the North Korean setting.

[video="youtube;Ow4MgX_bNjs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow4MgX_bNjs[/video]

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 32

Liz1996

It's Freedom

said no one in Europe, ever.

Reply 33

username3108158

Original post by Little Toy Gun

Wrong.

Countries with the lowest crime rates:
1. Qatar
2. Singapore
3. Taiwan
4. Austria
5. UAE
6. Hong Kong
7. Georgia
8. Japan
9. Denmark
10. Belarus
11. Switzerland

Not even No 1 in German-speaking central Europe.

Yaaaay! I feel good knowing that I live in a safe place! :woo:

P.S with everyone saying Muslims are bad and all, Qatar and UAE are Muslim countries, so they can't be that bad!

Reply 34

El Salvador

Original post by RF_PineMarten

Actually, when asked above, I said they should do exactly that.

I said banning them would at least take them away from toddlers, not that banning them is the best or only option.

Not to mention when something is "banned" there are always exceptions. When drugs are "banned" there are many that aren't, many that just receive a lot of restrictions (how they can be sold, where etc), and with exceptions (eg academic research could use cocaine etc).

That meaning of "ban" should be quite apparent when I refer to other countries to having banned guns. People could still get a license for various reasons and practically anyone could go into certain venues and use a gun with minimal training. I might even have grouped Mexico in the group that banned guns (as it is commonly believed), when gun ownership is legally and constitutionally legal for anyone in the country.

Reply 35

El Salvador

Original post by ClearSky

Yaaaay! I feel good knowing that I live in a safe place! :woo:

P.S with everyone saying Muslims are bad and all, Qatar and UAE are Muslim countries, so they can't be that bad!

So are many Eastern European countries. I'm pretty sure Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain are safe too.

Reply 36

username3108158

Original post by Little Toy Gun

So are many Eastern European countries. I'm pretty sure Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain are safe too.

Yeah, me too. :smile:

Bahrain is sorta like Qatar, and Qatar is the best place ever! :wink:

Reply 37

Frankray

Why do Americans love guns? 1) Shooting is fun.2) Hunting is fun, and puts food on the table.3) Collecting firearms is fun.4) Guns allow the weak to defend themselves against the strong. Guns are an equalizer.5) Self defense is a basic human right.6) Guns are a technology, and technology is fun.7) Shooting and gun collecting are a social activity, to do with family and friends.8) Guns in the hands of the populace are the last line of defense against government tyranny.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 38

generallee

It couldn't be simpler, it amazes me that Euro's don't get it. The have a right to bear arms enshrined in their constitution.

They also have the right to free speech.

The Democrats have managed to whittle away at the First Amendment. But the Second Amendment? Their attempts have been futile, as will this latest campaign be.