Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Jools)
    The problem is...
    CCC = Someone clever who does no work
    CCC = Someone not clever who works like hell

    On paper they're identical, yet at opposite ends of the spectrum regarding their skills.
    Thats a good point, but an IQ wouldn't solve that problem eiether, you'd have to look at their charactor, and ask their teachers how they apply themselves, i think they do that don't they? I mean some who is clever but just cruises is surely not someone you want on your course, you want someone hard working etc..
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by happysunshine)
    I'll say no, it isn't.

    I am aware this isn't the first thread on this matter, but this is what I've come up with of why it isn't worth it.

    Apprentiships: An option at 16 to be earning rather than struggling away doing 5 AS Levels with little money to live on. A relative of mine has an option for working with a big company and earning £11,000+ at 16. Seriously. And yet their GCSE results will all be around the C area.
    [INDENT]These people are the clever ones, jobs that have shortages of people in them, meaning money is excellent and they can work for themselves.

    Leaving school at 18 Other than getting into to £20,000 of debt you can earn a salary at 18 of £9,200+ (along with travel allowance) to train with LAING in construction and still get a degree, for example. Many big firms offer the chance of qualification, social life and good pay. Why bother going to university?

    Without making anyone feel less special with their AAAA grades yesterday (well done!), most of you had the same or similar, and with a degree, how will all of you stand out? With 6.3% of graduates not getting employed (2002 figures), again is their any point? I feel companies now look for experience rather than qualifications to stand out.

    Maybe it's the fault of the government for not allowing people to stand out. Or maybe that 50% target is too much. Either way, I don't think you can not allow people with 3 A-Levels a place at university, and making the A* another grade of A-Levels would only make the gap between top schools and bottom schools get bigger. The 5 point grade scale, allows those who do not go to our best schools to finally achieve the top grade.
    firstly, u dont exactly need a lot of money when ur at A level age neway.

    secondly, 11k a year is an abysmal wage unless u r living at home and not paying any rent or bills. you would be better off at uni withthe high chance of a much better starting wage when u leave.

    and debt isnt that bad cos ur not paying that excessive amounts. the repayments are virtually interest free and are not in large chunks from aload shark or nething. they are under control.

    i would say that there is a considerebly higher chance of getting any job with a degree then with not and this chance increases with the level of the job.

    also, who wants to work on a building site with mostly idiots if u can be at uni with decent people and not doing manual labour in the open air and being looked down on by many other professions.

    9,200 a year is absolutely rubbish pay also i would think and you could get more on the dole i thought. personally i would rather mix with better people at uni and the social life at uni is as good as youre probably likely to find newhere and get worthwile qualifications instead of construction quals that u dont need for the job, and i would rather get a decent job in a decent working environment.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Prologue)
    9,200 a year is absolutely rubbish pay also i would think and you could get more on the dole i thought. personally i would rather mix with better people at uni and the social life at uni is as good as youre probably likely to find newhere and get worthwile qualifications instead of construction quals that u dont need for the job, and i would rather get a decent job in a decent working environment.
    A degree is not always a ticket to success.

    The construction industry can be quite lucrative. Once a labourer has worked through the ranks to the position of site/project manager, a salary in excess of £40,000 p.a. isn’t uncommon. Also, i disagree with your wild generalisation regarding people in construction, it seems quite an ignorant comment to deem people at uni simply "better", i don't see how someone can reach such an unsound conclusion......
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dajo123)
    A degree is not always a ticket to success.

    The construction industry can be quite lucrative. Once a labourer has worked through the ranks to the position of site/project manager, a salary in excess of £40,000 p.a. isn’t uncommon. Also, i disagree with your wild generalisation regarding people in construction, it seems quite an ignorant comment to deem people at uni simply "better", i don't see how someone can reach such an unsound conclusion......
    I agree its arogant and stupid to think cos you have a degree you're better than other people, or even smarter than others, cos people without degree's may be far smart than you. Anyhow... Its all well and good saying you could earn 40k i'm sure you could but is it not the exception that you make it that far and become a site manager you're more likely to stay a bricky surely? You can't have everyone as the boss cos you'd never get the work done.

    With a degree you go in at a higher level on the ladder so if you work hard you should be able to advance up it faster. Anyhow you can still be a bricky if you have a degree, friend of mine has a degree and became a bus driver cos thats what he wanted to do.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dajo123)
    A degree is not always a ticket to success.

    The construction industry can be quite lucrative. Once a labourer has worked through the ranks to the position of site/project manager, a salary in excess of £40,000 p.a. isn’t uncommon. Also, i disagree with your wild generalisation regarding people in construction, it seems quite an ignorant comment to deem people at uni simply "better", i don't see how someone can reach such an unsound conclusion......
    In the consruction industry most project managers do have degrees and have university education. In reality the people I know in the industry have had the same jobs for the last 30 years or so. There is also a lot of hard manual work invovled.

    I think you either need to be well educated or run your own business to make a good living (i.e graduate standard) from the construction industry. I agree its wrong to say people in the industry are mostly idiots or are lesser. It does often tend to be GCSE failures who go into the industry and that is why it has got a bad reputation, but it certainly is not always the case.

    We need sparksl, joiners, plumbers and cival engineers otherwise we would be living on the streets. If I was a plumber and the customer had an attitude of "you're just a plumber, I am a graduate from Coventry who spent 3 years studying Blame Diversion" I would tell them to p*ss off quite frankly.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    most of the builders i see on the street are idiots who cat call and whistle etc. ive seen quite a few like this and they look like what you would call "chavs" but grown up. generalisations can be right a lot of the time. like when you see most lawyers they are respectable and knowledgable. just because it is a generalisation it doesnt mean its not true.

    also generally i would say university people are more well rounded then your avaerage person from the hard work that goes into getting in to the hard work needed to stay on and the things that you have leanrt and experiences that youve gone through and different types of social interaction and sporting endeavors.

    people generally think that a binman is a **** job. obviously we need them though and respect what they do but i wouldnt want people to see me doing it and i would expect a qualified "suit" to be seen as higher when other people compare the two sociologically and on first impression psycologically.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Prologue)
    most of the builders i see on the street are idiots who cat call and whistle etc. ive seen quite a few like this and they look like what you would call "chavs" but grown up. generalisations can be right a lot of the time. like when you see most lawyers they are respectable and knowledgable. just because it is a generalisation it doesnt mean its not true.

    also generally i would say university people are more well rounded then your avaerage person from the hard work that goes into getting in to the hard work needed to stay on and the things that you have leanrt and experiences that youve gone through and different types of social interaction and sporting endeavors.

    people generally think that a binman is a **** job. obviously we need them though and respect what they do but i wouldnt want people to see me doing it and i would expect a qualified "suit" to be seen as higher when other people compare the two sociologically and on first impression psycologically.

    There is just one major flaw with your arguement though, you have used the word 'general' for too many times. One thing I have learn't in the past year is that generalisations just make you look narrowminded. I admit there are a lot of scally llike builders about and its no secret a lot of them don't do well at school, but there also a lot of very clever people in the industry. Even a basic job such as a brick layer requires some maths knowledge as you have to calculate how many bricks you will require and where to start.

    One funny story though is I had joiner mate, he needed to work out an angle of somthing, it was just simply a case taking away a measurement from one 180 degrees. As he was doing this he was going on

    "Now I need to work out the angle of the dangle, times 2, now I need to subtract the alias angle"

    What he said didn't make a word of mathematical sense and I found it ironic considereing I had an argument with him a few days before as he was spouting out crap about how A levels are easy.

    However I am sure not all joiners are like that.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by happysunshine


    [B
    )

    Leaving school at 18[/B] Other than getting into to £20,000 of debt you can earn a salary at 18 of £9,200+ (along with travel allowance) to train with LAING in construction and still get a degree, for example. Many big firms offer the chance of qualification, social life and good pay. Why bother going to university?
    If you are working and srudying for a degree then you are still at university.

    I agree with you there are other options but there are also several ways to go to uni.

    Part time study is one. It's not an option for everyone but can be fitted in around work.

    A friend of mine did 2 years uni, industrial placement as part of his course and then took a year out to get more experience and save some money. He goes back in September with no debt.

    If you want to go to uni you do not have to follow the 3years full time with loads of debt route.
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    There is just one major flaw with your arguement though, you have used the word 'general' for too many times. One thing I have learn't in the past year is that generalisations just make you look narrowminded. I admit there are a lot of scally llike builders about and its no secret a lot of them don't do well at school, but there also a lot of very clever people in the industry. Even a basic job such as a brick layer requires some maths knowledge as you have to calculate how many bricks you will require and where to start.

    One funny story though is I had joiner mate, he needed to work out an angle of somthing, it was just simply a case taking away a measurement from one 180 degrees. As he was doing this he was going on

    "Now I need to work out the angle of the dangle, times 2, now I need to subtract the alias angle"

    What he said didn't make a word of mathematical sense and I found it ironic considereing I had an argument with him a few days before as he was spouting out crap about how A levels are easy.

    However I am sure not all joiners are like that.
    general means in general. it means the norm or avaerage. obviosuly this isnt sicentifics and there are people much above or below in terms of generally but thats what generally means. just like u generally post loads. u might post 50 in one day which would be loads and then none on another which would be nothing. genrally means on average and there isnt much harm in using this in an argument. people on here try to be too picky and so "oh but there are many who arent like this" but this is obvious as i said genrally. and u need different types of knowleadge for every job but that doesnt get away with the fact that people who get degrees often have a deeper knowledge that would give them access to a wider range of jobs and potential earning power and so id rather go to university and take my chances with a few years of debt and in time getting rid of it then taking then dropping out cos u cant be bothered to work and want a quick fix.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    I think you'd need to define whose worth you are discussing when asking whether you should go to uni. Ultimately we are all now paying or ourselves to go which means that its not like its a stupidly high drain on the economy, meaning that it is worth educating people further as far as the government is concerned.

    Secondly, in order to further your own learning, or simply experience living away from home, I believe it is an invaluable piece of growing up! I couldn't imgaine just going into an apprenticeship now, and working straight away - I guess I'm just an atypical student, call me workshy and I'd admit it.

    However, this desire not to work alos stems from the fact that I don't want to start doing a job I end up realising is not right for me. I'm enjoying learning more about the subjects I have chosen to study, and hope I can use these skills to end up in a profession I love, rather than just work and be unhappy in my job just so I can put food on the table.

    All in all, I believe that in the answer to the question uni is definitely worth it! Unfortunately we're all gonna end up in debt anyway, so why not use that time to have fun and learn?
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by happysunshine)
    ....to train with LAING in construction and still get a degree, for example.
    Tut, tut.

    * Laing O'Rourke
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    I think a lot of things being said about the construction industry are quite harsh. m going to Nottingham Trent to do a surveying degree in September and have had several offers of sponsership already due to the lack of graduates comming through.
    As for grades the highest offer is BCC and the rest are mainly CCC.Those entry requirements being set by the Royal Institute of Charted Suveyors. Its not just "stupid people" who go into the industry.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Fu*k the government and fu*k their targets to make university a day care center... fu*k the falling standards and fu*k these joke A-level exams... university should be for the elite, and i mean ability wise... the UK education system is a joke... i wish i applied overseas...
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    well in our education system is canada, everyone has to attend school to 16. The goverment pays for your education till your 18. Then,if you graduate from highschool at 18, you have many choices. All trades require a highschool diploma ( witch is what you graduate with at 18). Thier are courses in each school, mechanics, construction, metal work, information technologies. To enter a University in canada you must have a A average on you report card, which 1 in 15 get. Now, if you want to enter a college, you must have a C+ or better. You can jump from college to university after 2 years.


    Now, i would prefere your education system, trust me, in grade 11 and 12, all the dam ingorant people who dont try in these grades ruin in for others, they are only there to get there diploma, which isnt that hard.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by canuck)
    well in our education system is canada, everyone has to attend school to 16. The goverment pays for your education till your 18. Then,if you graduate from highschool at 18, you have many choices. All trades require a highschool diploma ( witch is what you graduate with at 18). Thier are courses in each school, mechanics, construction, metal work, information technologies. To enter a University in canada you must have a A average on you report card, which 1 in 15 get. Now, if you want to enter a college, you must have a C+ or better. You can jump from college to university after 2 years.


    Now, i would prefere your education system, trust me, in grade 11 and 12, all the dam ingorant people who dont try in these grades ruin in for others, they are only there to get there diploma, which isnt that hard.
    Ya I agree man, when I was in grade 11 and 12 soo many dumbasses try to ruin your marks. i swear 60% of the kids in my classes were just there for a diploma.... But not every school has those trade classes. In Toronto you have to have a certain average and apply for them, most of the dumbasses dont even get into the trade schools so they ruin the regular system. The good thing is that they usually get kicked out of the U classes before the end of september so it gets better unless you take M or O
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Nik P)
    Fu*k the government and fu*k their targets to make university a day care center... fu*k the falling standards and fu*k these joke A-level exams... university should be for the elite, and i mean ability wise... the UK education system is a joke... i wish i applied overseas...
    is this cos you didnt get to where you wanted to go? (said in a respectful way)
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    To be honest i don't think just cos you have a degree it makes you a better person, I mean when you get a degree in media studies what in god's name have you learnt that can be put to practical use???? The Plumber or electrician has skills, skills that can be applied and used. The Media graduate has his or her degree but with no firm career, cos you're not going to be working for the BBC thats for sure!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Vladek)
    To be honest i don't think just cos you have a degree it makes you a better person, I mean when you get a degree in media studies what in god's name have you learnt that can be put to practical use???? The Plumber or electrician has skills, skills that can be applied and used. The Media graduate has his or her degree but with no firm career, cos you're not going to be working for the BBC thats for sure!
    Quite a lot of media studies students do work for the BBC and have good careers but that is for another thread, the argument is becoming tiresome, but I agree with many degrees (including media studies) you don't have set skills. However there are lot of degrees such as computer science, maths, physics which do teach you real skills. Even subjects like Geography are very useful as you can go into stuff such as town planning.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    Quite a lot of media studies students do work for the BBC and have good careers but that is for another thread, the argument is becoming tiresome, but I agree with many degrees (including media studies) you don't have set skills. However there are lot of degrees such as computer science, maths, physics which do teach you real skills. Even subjects like Geography are very useful as you can go into stuff such as town planning.
    Whats the point in doing a degree if all you come out with is a set of debts and no clear career path?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Vladek)
    Whats the point in doing a degree if all you come out with is a set of debts and no clear career path?
    You learn other stuff especialy if you move out, there is a lot of transferable skills. I do agree that on paper some degrees seem useless though.
 
 
 
Poll
Which accompaniment is best?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.