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    (Original post by second1)
    I think it is relevant as both you and Amazingtrade have done extremely well and gained places at (and this may upset you) 'prestigious' and academically elite institutions. I wonder whether either of you would have considered any of the 'lesser institutions' that you defend so staunchly. Unless you carried out objective extensive research into UCL the chances are you were to a degree influenced by the esteem that UCL is held in, and its academic excellence. This is perfectly fine, yet then to say league tables and perceptions are rubbish is a bit rich!
    what's so wrong in wanting to go to universities where research and teaching is top-notch if you have the required grades to match the offers?
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    (Original post by timeofyourlife)
    what's so wrong in wanting to go to universities where research and teaching is top-notch if you have the required grades to match the offers?
    nothing at all in my opinion, thats the reason i went to my uni! its 80th in the tables but 19th outa 70 for my department. gotta go to the place you feel you'll apply yourself the best.
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    (Original post by second1)
    I wonder whether either of you would have considered any of the 'lesser institutions' that you defend so staunchly. Unless you carried out objective extensive research into UCL the chances are you were to a degree influenced by the esteem that UCL is held in, and its academic excellence. This is perfectly fine, yet then to say league tables and perceptions are rubbish is a bit rich!
    LOL! I am very aware of the so-called "elite" universities, but this does not mean they influenced my applications. I also applied to read law at Greenwich (you may deem this a lesser university). You are right, I did research into universities and it was precisely this research that led me to my choices. It might interest you to know that distance and course structure were the main factors in my choosing UCL, NOT reputation.
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    (Original post by timeofyourlife)
    what's so wrong in wanting to go to universities where research and teaching is top-notch if you have the required grades to match the offers?
    Absolutely nothing. Is not research and teaching two of the very things that league tables rate? I applaud you for your choice of uni and think that you have chosen one of the best. However for there to be the best there must also be the worst, surely you recognise this?
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    (Original post by second1)
    Absolutely nothing. Is not research and teaching two of the very things that league tables rate? I applaud you for your choice of uni and think that you have chosen one of the best. However for there to be the best there must also be the worst, surely you recognise this?
    But how do you judge the worst? Oxford and Cambridge take only straight A students so obviously they're going to get good grades, to be honest if you don't get a first at oxford you've been failed haven't you?
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    (Original post by second1)
    Absolutely nothing. Is not research and teaching two of the very things that league tables rate?
    yes, although different league tables place different significance upon major factors such as teaching, tutors per student, a-level entry points.

    (Original post by second1)
    I applaud you for your choice of uni and think that you have chosen one of the best. However for there to be the best there must also be the worst, surely you recognise this?
    everythings relative. there is a "worst" out of the top 10 world-wide universities, doesn't mean a great deal in the grand scheme of things. if i was prime minister universities would be streamlined and things would operate a lot differently, but i don't see there to be any point in being 'snobbish' about university status. what does it seek to achieve?
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    (Original post by Dajo123)
    It might interest you to know that distance and course structure were the main factors in my choosing UCL, NOT reputation.
    yeah, right
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    (Original post by Dajo123)
    I also applied to read law at Greenwich
    I pity your agonising choice Greenwich or UCL! You must have had many sleepness nights considering where to go!
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    (Original post by second1)
    I pity your agonising choice Greenwich or UCL! You must have had many sleepness nights considering where to go!
    :rolleyes: I rejected LSE (putting Kingston as my insurance), why would i do this if my decision was influenced by league tables? I didn’t base my decisions on reputation; i cannot see why this notion is alien to some people!.
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    (Original post by Dajo123)
    :rolleyes: I rejected LSE
    Typical

    I would reject them too in favour of UCL
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    Something which may interest you guys is the number of Firsts (in %) that the universities get. I have put together a table to show these (only the top 15 unis). Personaly I think that this is one of the most important things you should be looking at when picking your university (as well as other things such as social aspects, etc).

    Here my table:
    University - Firsts and 2:1(%) - Entry Grades
    1.Cambridge - 87.8 - 29.8
    2.Oxford - 85.0 - 29.5
    3.Bristol - 80.3 - 27.0
    4.St. Andrews - 77.8 - 26.3
    5.Edinburgh - 76.4 - 26.6
    6.Nottingham - 75.4 - 26.0
    7.Warwick - 74.8 - 26.6
    8.Bath - 74.2 - 25.7
    9.Imperial College - 72.3 - 28.3
    10.UCL - 72.3 - 25.7
    11.LSE - 70.6 - 28.3
    12.Glasgow - 70.6 - 24.6
    13.Manchester - 70.4 - 23.9
    14.Birmingham - 70.0 - 23.8
    15.York - 67.9 - 25.7

    However you have to remember that as entry grades rise the % of firsts should too so for example Warwick and Bath both have similar percentages of firsts but Baths' entry grades are lower by 0.9 points which would suggest that Warwick has the better teaching (note - this assuption is confirmed by the Times guide).
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    (Original post by Chubb)
    Something which may interest you guys is the number of Firsts (in %) that the universities get. I have put together a table to show these (only the top 15 unis). Personaly I think that this is one of the most important things you should be looking at when picking your university (as well as other things such as social aspects, etc).

    Here my table:
    University - Firsts (%) - Entry Grades
    1.Cambridge - 87.8 - 29.8
    2.Oxford - 85.0 - 29.5
    3.Bristol - 80.3 - 27.0
    4.St. Andrews - 77.8 - 26.3
    5.Edinburgh - 76.4 - 26.6
    6.Nottingham - 75.4 - 26.0
    7.Warwick - 74.8 - 26.6
    8.Bath - 74.2 - 25.7
    9.Imperial College - 72.3 - 28.3
    10.UCL - 72.3 - 25.7
    11.LSE - 70.6 - 28.3
    12.Glasgow - 70.6 - 24.6
    13.Manchester - 70.4 - 23.9
    14.Birmingham - 70.0 - 23.8
    15.York - 67.9 - 25.7

    However you have to remember that as entry grades rise the % of firsts should too so for example Warwick and Bath both have similar percentages of firsts but Baths' entry grades are lower by 0.9 points which would suggest that Warwick has the better teaching (note - this assuption is confirmed by the Times guide).
    Aren't those statistics 1sts and 2:1s? It seems to high to be firsts to me. There is no way any university can have 87.8% firsts.
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    (Original post by amazingtrade)
    Aren't those statistics 1sts and 2:1s? It seems to high to be firsts to me. There is no way any university can have 87.8% firsts.
    Yes sorry about that - I've edited it now.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If we were to look at teaching standard alone I would expect to find the table above to change:

    University - Teaching Standard
    1.York - 23.1
    2.Cambridge - 22.9
    3.Loughbourgh - 22.8
    4.St. Andrews - 22.7
    5.Warwick - 22.7
    6.Essex - 22.5
    7.Dundee - 22.5
    8.Glasgow - 22.4
    9.Oxford - 22.4
    10.Imperial College - 22.3
    11.Durham - 22.2
    12.Newcastle - 22.2
    13.Kings - 22.2
    14.Leicester - 22.2
    15.Southampton - 21.8
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    (Original post by Chubb)
    Yes sorry about that - I've edited it now.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If we were to look at teaching standard alone I would expect to find the table above to change:

    University - Teaching Standard
    1.York - 23.1
    2.Cambridge - 22.9
    3.Loughbourgh - 22.8
    4.St. Andrews - 22.7
    5.Warwick - 22.7
    6.Essex - 22.5
    7.Dundee - 22.5
    8.Glasgow - 22.4
    9.Oxford - 22.4
    10.Imperial College - 22.3
    11.Durham - 22.2
    12.Newcastle - 22.2
    13.Kings - 22.2
    14.Leicester - 22.2
    15.Southampton - 21.8
    that tables all well and good but for teaching standards you really need to look at the department you're going into, not the average for the uni if you see what i mean. My department got 24/24 but over all the uni did pretty badly, but thats ok cos if your department did well it doesn't matter if the chemistry department is poor (Just an example i've no idea if it was
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    (Original post by Dajo123)
    A degree is not always a ticket to success.

    The construction industry can be quite lucrative. Once a labourer has worked through the ranks to the position of site/project manager, a salary in excess of £40,000 p.a. isn’t uncommon. Also, i disagree with your wild generalisation regarding people in construction, it seems quite an ignorant comment to deem people at uni simply "better", i don't see how someone can reach such an unsound conclusion......

    It's not common to work your way up like that though.

    Yes building is a good trade to be in for the money, but do you still want to be on a building site when you are 60? At least a degree gives you a choice an the chance to change career.
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    (Original post by Vladek)
    that tables all well and good but for teaching standards you really need to look at the department you're going into, not the average for the uni if you see what i mean. My department got 24/24 but over all the uni did pretty badly, but thats ok cos if your department did well it doesn't matter if the chemistry department is poor (Just an example i've no idea if it was
    Yes I know - I just wasn't prepared to fill it in for everyone and I wanted all the unis on the list so that people could see that the unis with the brilliant reputations arn't as good as some would lead you to beleave - for example Oxford being joint 8th for teaching.
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    (Original post by Chubb)
    Yes I know - I just wasn't prepared to fill it in for everyone and I wanted all the unis on the list so that people could see that the unis with the brilliant reputations arn't as good as some would lead you to beleave - for example Oxford being joint 8th for teaching.
    Of course no QAA subject teaching assessments have been done since December 2002 and none will be done. The individual subject assessments have been replaced with institutional assessments of universities own internal quality audits/assessment systems. Instead of a mark out of 24 each uni will get one of 3 assessments (roughly equatable with: pants, ok and brill)

    I'd also recommend that rather than anyone making desicions on teaching quality based on the QAA SCORES they read the QAA reports that accompany those scores (all available online here: http://www.qaa.ac.uk/revreps/reviewreports.htm ) - in some cases the difference between 24 out of 24 and 23 out of 24 can be an unclear assessment criteria in a single peice of coursework, or a slightly disorganised coursework hand in system...and of course considering the dates that the assessments are carried out (in some cases back to 1994) it's more than likely that these problems have been fixed.
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    I think a lot of people here are generalising universities too much. When you're evaluating universities with the intention of choosing which one is best for you, then you should be evaluating the individual department and course you're looking at. You should also consider when you're intending to do when you finish your degree.

    I'm doing an A.I. degree and want to go on to research work after my degree at the university, so I used the Research Assessment Exercise Comp. Sci. results to compare universities.

    You might even find that Oxford or Cambridge don't always top the tables, it depends on what you want to study.
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    (Original post by Chubb)
    If we were to look at teaching standard alone I would expect to find the table above to change:

    University - Teaching Standard
    1.York - 23.1
    2.Cambridge - 22.9
    3.Loughbourgh - 22.8
    4.St. Andrews - 22.7
    5.Warwick - 22.7
    6.Essex - 22.5
    7.Dundee - 22.5
    8.Glasgow - 22.4
    9.Oxford - 22.4
    10.Imperial College - 22.3
    11.Durham - 22.2
    12.Newcastle - 22.2
    13.Kings - 22.2
    14.Leicester - 22.2
    15.Southampton - 21.8
    That makes interesting reading. Thanks.
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    (Original post by sashh)
    It's not common to work your way up like that though.

    Yes building is a good trade to be in for the money, but do you still want to be on a building site when you are 60? At least a degree gives you a choice an the chance to change career.
    It'd be hard work lugging bricks after 40 yet alone 60!
 
 
 
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