Why do poor people vote for the Torys? Watch

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#61
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#61
(Original post by Sycatonne23)
Because believe it or not, not every single poor person in the country wants to remain poor for the rest of their lives, stuck in council housing and dependent on benefits. Some people genuinely want to lift themselves out of poverty, not vote for the party which wants to accommodate poverty and promote dependence for political gain.
I see it differently, the Labour party currently is trying to bring back the importance of the social cleavage of class, as it was up until the 70s (where people started to vote along other lines of division).
The Labour party does this with slogans and metaphor, for example, they claim to be "for the many not the few", which not only implies that they are for the working class, but that the tories are for the few. They also assert that the tories don't care about the poor/disabled etc. The aim is not to promote themselves or their own policy, but to profit of the divisions they help create in society. The more they can make it us vs them, the better they do.

Labour's tactics are also very very similar to UKIP (who used us vs them with immigrants and us vs them with political elite). It's just Labour use us (working class) v them ("the few")/
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L i b
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#62
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(Original post by Bornblue)
Lol. The increase in jobs has been largely fuelled by an increase in people becoming self-employed after being unable to find other employment.
More people are moving into self-employment, but that's a reasonably long-standing trend, far pre-dating the current government or the 2008 recession.

You can look at the data, but the ONS summarises it thus: "The data presented here suggest that in general, self-employed workers are broadly content with their labour market status. Relatively few report negative reasons for becoming self-employed, few indicate that they are looking for alternative employment and among the part-timers, many respondents report that they would prefer not to work full-time".

This would lead me to believe that the problems around self-employment are not quite as you suggest - and indeed for many people it is a sensible option. I, for one, have no problem with someone who can't find a job (that tiny, dwindling rump of people) getting out there and entering self-employment. That's a positive, so far as I can see.

Wages have fallen behind inflation, living standards have dropped, house prices have soared.
Living standards? By what metric?

If you look at the total pay figures (Real AWE), they are broadly increasing above inflation - some of the monthly year-on-year comparisons are negative, but it's fluctuations are minimal. In reality, it's pretty flat.

That's a problem, but it's tied to our productivity problem that several governments have failed to address effectively: it sitting at a flat level really just shows more people entering the labour market at the lower end and in less productive sectors. An issue, certainly, but not the issue you're focusing on.

If you look at real disposable income, again this is growing - and the most striking feature is that its growing at the bottom end of the income spectrum as more people enter employment or take on more hours. Again, from the ONS--

"Median disposable income for the poorest fifth of households rose by £700 (5.1%) between 2014/15 and 2015/16; in contrast the income of the richest fifth of households fell by £1,000 (1.9%) over the same period."

If you drill down on the house price statistics, you'll find it's only really significant growth in London since 2008. The regions are largely toddling along quite normally - the South East of course leads, but outside the south it's actually pretty flat. That is of course again an issue, but it's largely a localised problem.

I've heard some decent rhetoric on housing from the Tories (they'll have to match it with actions, of course) but very little from the opposition parties about supply-side changes.
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username1738683
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#63
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Instead of 'poor' we should refer to working-class people, people can be poor for all sorts of reasons. Being work-shy is one of the many possible root causes. Those should vote for the party that best serves their interests, of course.

Working-class people ought to vote Tory because they always have been and still are the most likely to deliver economic growth and job creation in this country. The ideal way out of 'poverty' is to facilitate an economic platform with jobs for people to go to. Voting Labour really is turkeys and Xmas for the working class. They want to employ everyone in the public sector, that's it.

We do have the lowest unemployment rate for decades and that is with all the immigrants pouring in.
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Ralphjons
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#64
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Interesting thread. When I studied sociology I learned about Lockwood et al and their studies into working class attitudes in the 70s I can identify similar attitudes here. Namely aspiration and deference. Many students will come out of university up to their eyeballs in debt and working for £10 an hour whilst watching criminal banksters being hailed as too big to fail. Many people have real understanding of real wealth and inequality. Attitudes are slowly turning.
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Davij038
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#65
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Because they’re dumb bigoted racists who read the daily mail and want to bring back hanging.


Or because a lot of the left believe the above and genuinely treats them with contempt.

Of course, the Tories haven’t been great for the poor either. But they do generally listen to them and take in their concerns.
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Bored123456789
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#66
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Anything to prevent Labour (especially since Corbyn is the leader) from winning.
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username1738683
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#67
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(Original post by Ralphjons)
Interesting thread. When I studied sociology I learned about Lockwood et al and their studies into working class attitudes in the 70s I can identify similar attitudes here. Namely aspiration and deference. Many students will come out of university up to their eyeballs in debt and working for £10 an hour whilst watching criminal banksters being hailed as too big to fail. Many people have real understanding of real wealth and inequality. Attitudes are slowly turning.
Because a degree in Sociology should be netting at least twice that rate? That the attitude that needs changing?
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Johnny English
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#68
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(Original post by mashbbk)
My honest opinion is that it is all down to immigration. People either think there is too much, hate all immigration altogether, or perhaps even be bigots/racists. Some may even blame their social or economic problems on them.

I think you're right in your observations . Many people have had enough of mass immigration . Many would like to see a more rural idyll preserved . We are only a very small island after all .
There is little doubt that violent crime and especially knife and gun crime is dominated by certain ethnic groups .

Sex offences in places like Rochdale ,Rotherham , Newcastle , Telford , Luton and many others I could mention is dominated by another ethnic group .

Poverty in these areas is not the primary cause . It's a far more profound and disturbing problem if Police reports and recommendations are anything to go by .

It's all about maintaining a good quality of life with easily accessible green spaces to relax in . It's not just about building new homes and schools for immigrants and our current expanding population .

Many people I speak seem completely oblivious to the consequences of expansive building plans and projects across the country .

A City the size of Cardiff needs to be built every year just to house the current influx of new entrants .

I fear the whole situation is one of impending doom and disaster .

I doubt if even Batmen and Robin could save us .,..


The End
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3121
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#69
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(Original post by Mair18919)
Absolutely not, but the parliamentary Labour party is composed of well off middle class people who love mass immigration. Uncontrolled immigration has damaged the quality of life, job and housing prospects of the majority of British people, but especially the low skilled. The Labour party has abandoned the interests of the indigenous working class in favour of immigrants. Thats why people voted Brexit and will not vote Labour in many cases.
And Tory cuts have helped with the quality of life and housing? I’m sure all those zero hours contracts in the gig economy are serving many in great ways!

Have you ever seen a movie called The Big Short? If not, watch it or at least the ending.
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JoshDawg
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#70
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(Original post by Moura)
I see so many working class people unsure whether to vote for Labour or Tory or are actively saying they will vote Tory... I fail to understand this. The majority of people in the UK will be adversely affected by anything the Tories do. The only thing they are interested in is ensuring the same people who are on top stay there and those at the bottom do the same. Even middle class I think have to be pretty unpleasant people to vote for them. I just don't understand WHY they are in power. Are people that conditioned that they think that they are lesser than those who have money?
Poor people pay taxes, labour likes to raise taxes. Poor people like to keep the money they earn
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username1738683
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#71
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Income tax allowance under the Conservatives has risen from £6.5k in 2010 to £11.5k as it stands, that is pennies for the rich but a few pounds for those on low incomes. They froze council tax rises that had been used by Labour as a blatant form of indirect taxation because they didn't want to put it on income, a tremendous social injustice that saw a few cases of old people walking into prison voluntarily as a means of protest.

They have cut down the deficit, employment is at an all time high under any measure we care to apply. Immigrants have been landing in large numbers, looking for a place in our job market and mostly finding it. It's never been cheaper to borrow money, the Footsie is at an all time high. As a way out of poverty, jobs for people to go to are what we need most. Building sites in London are manned by immigrants these days, with the educated natives busy elsewhere. Times are hard.
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username878267
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#72
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(Original post by Davij038)
Of course, the Tories haven’t been great for the poor either. But they do generally listen to them and take in their concerns.
You write stuff on here which I'm not even sure you can honestly believe.
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neversoutherner
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#73
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(Original post by zhog)
The Tories inherited a difficult situation, at least unemployment is at an all time low and that is a very good thing. There is no such thing as a perfect world.
LOL. Simply reclassifying millions of unemployed people as being 'in employment does not mean that they are no longer unemployed.

The Uk's unemployment rate is 20%, when one considers; people on work programme; people on benefit sanction; people on DWP 'training courses' and people forced to work for their JSA at Poundland or suchlike.

There are circa 5 million people in the above categories; all are unemployed, yet the Tories deem them to be in work. It is a monstrous con.
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Snazzyzebra
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#74
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(Original post by Moura)
I see so many working class people unsure whether to vote for Labour or Tory or are actively saying they will vote Tory... I fail to understand this. The majority of people in the UK will be adversely affected by anything the Tories do. The only thing they are interested in is ensuring the same people who are on top stay there and those at the bottom do the same. Even middle class I think have to be pretty unpleasant people to vote for them. I just don't understand WHY they are in power. Are people that conditioned that they think that they are lesser than those who have money?
Because ideology transcends economic class
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Skyhawkwolf
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#75
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They can pull a convincing argument on how they can help the working class.
(Original post by Moura)
I see so many working class people unsure whether to vote for Labour or Tory or are actively saying they will vote Tory... I fail to understand this. The majority of people in the UK will be adversely affected by anything the Tories do. The only thing they are interested in is ensuring the same people who are on top stay there and those at the bottom do the same. Even middle class I think have to be pretty unpleasant people to vote for them. I just don't understand WHY they are in power. Are people that conditioned that they think that they are lesser than those who have money?
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Lord Jon
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#76
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Probably a lot of reasons tbh -

They subscribe to conservative ideals. Conservativism isn't all tax breaks for the rich and put the poor in workhouses. That's a fairly un-nuanced way of looking at it.

They fell out of touch with Labour. - There's probably many reasons why for that one.

Personality politics. - I can't imagine anyone with a brain cell thinking Theresa May has personality but there we are...
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L i b
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#77
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(Original post by neversoutherner)
LOL. Simply reclassifying millions of unemployed people as being 'in employment does not mean that they are no longer unemployed.

The Uk's unemployment rate is 20%, when one considers; people on work programme; people on benefit sanction; people on DWP 'training courses' and people forced to work for their JSA at Poundland or suchlike.

There are circa 5 million people in the above categories; all are unemployed, yet the Tories deem them to be in work. It is a monstrous con.
I'm sorry, but this is utter, utter nonsense. Wherever you've read this steaming pile of bull-****, you've been duped and are a fool for believing it.

People on government supported training and employment schemes represent 0.2% of people in work, according to the ONS. There are not "millions" in this situation. Equally, people under a benefit sanction are a tiny number of the labour market, and being sanctioned has no impact on your (un)employment status.

20% is around the level of economic inactivity (which is at a historic low in the UK). This includes students and others in education (about 20-30%), people looking after families or the home (again, about 20-30%) and those who are too sick to work (about 20%) - then about 15% who retired before 65. These people are not unemployed as they are not actively seeking work.
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Johnny English
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#78
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Because many poor people have had enough of the liars and idiots that currently rule the Labour party . Mcdonnell (marxist) Abbott ( plank ) Corbyn (communist) and the like just don't quite cut it for most people that remember their politics from 20 years ago . They are sick and tired of the false promises Corbyn and his merry band of ultra lefties are making . It's just utterly pathetic and blatant .
God help us if they ever got into power anytime soon . We would get bankrupt within 6 months .
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Bored123456789
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#79
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(Original post by Johnny English)
Because many poor people have had enough of the liars and idiots that currently rule the Labour party . Mcdonnell (marxist) Abbott ( plank ) Corbyn (communist) and the like just don't quite cut it for most people that remember their politics from 20 years ago . They are sick and tired of the false promises Corbyn and his merry band of ultra lefties are making . It's just utterly pathetic and blatant .
God help us if they ever got into power anytime soon . We would get bankrupt within 6 months .
What's quite scary is their nutty supporters know all this and yet still support them.
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Joe312
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#80
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Maybe they don't think that being poor should somehow give them the right to vote to take away money from rich people.
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