Sorry Remainers, You Were Right: Brexit Was A Mistake Watch

Juan Perón
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I've been a Eurosceptic for as long as I can remember, and strongly supported Brexit, seeing it as a chance to claw back British sovereignty and save our island from hordes of Muslim migrants. However, I have come to see, through my own research and looking at facts and evidence, that this was mistake, and that I was wrong, and that this result was the triumph of demagoguery, nativism, xenophobia, ignorance, prejudice and historically-illiterate nostalgia, and a bitter education in the stupidity of the democratic system, which gives equal weighting to the votes of both the educated and the stupid. I sided with the stupid in a non-existent war on "the establishment", and I now repent of my populistic folly and my embrace of the herd over the derided liberal elite, who were right after all.

I was wrong to think that Brexit was a good thing because "muh sovereignty". In a globalised world full of power blocs, national sovereignty counts for less than it used to. It is often better to pool sovereignty with other nations in pursuit of a common goal. We have more clout as part of a team than alone. Furthermore, absolute state sovereignty is not a good thing. North Korea has absolute sovereignty over its affairs, and uses this sovereignty to tyrannise over and butcher and imprison its own people. The freedom of the individual is more important than borders or state sovereignty (which does not mean the popular sovereignty of the people living in the state, but the right of the people in charge of the state to do whatever they want). The EU is a counter-balance to the UK government if it takes particularly damaging actions. Supra-national institutions are necessary to serve as a check on nation-states to preserve the freedom of the individuals within those states. Now the government has free rein to remove workers' rights, allow corporations to pollute our air and God knows what else.

I supported Brexit foolishly believing that our special relationship with the USA and a new relationship with the Angosphere would make up for it. I fell for the nostalgic, romanticised view of the 19th century promoted by right-wing libertarian Brexiteers. What they forget is that our Anglosphere allies wanted us to stay in the EU because we were worth more to them as allies as part of a global trading bloc than outside of it. And there is no reason to believe that trade with our Anglosphere partners will make up for the loss of trade with our neighbours. The special relationship has been exposed as meaningless on this issue as the word of President Donald J. Trump is worth less than a sack of dog feces. Months after criticising Obama for the very same thing, Trump has pushed the UK back down the back of the queue for trade talks. He is an isolationist and an America First realist. It is in America's economic interests to forge trade links with a bloc of almost half a million people rather than the mere 60 million of the UK. We had a chance to implement the fantasies of the Brexiteers back in the 19th century with Joseph Chamberlain and Imperial Preference. But now the boat has sailed and the empire is finished. We will be ignored by our erstwhile allies as they forge global ties of their own. We will be left a bitter, impoverished, miserable little island.

I supported Brexit believing in the nonsensical idea that the EU was a bureaucratic tyranny. Yet the fact is that the UK Civil Service, at over 400,000 employees, is much larger than the EU's bureaucracy. Those who rail against the supposedly undemocratic nature of the EU ignore the fact that MEPs are elected from across Europe to sit in the European Parliament using a fairer election system than is used in our general elections. These then debate on and vote on legislation proposed by the Commission. There must be a majority in both the EU Parliament and the Council for laws to pass.

Those Brexiteers who complain about unnecessary EU laws are often unable to name any, and even make up stories about EU regulation on the shape of bananas and other such nonsense. Many believed these lies during the referendum.

I supported Brexit thinking that immigration from the EU was burdening our country. Yet all the evidence shows that EU migrants pay more than they take out, are young and healthy and therefore do not burden local services and create jobs rather than taking British jobs, whilst having little effect on wages. I listened to the rantings of ignorant racists and demagogues, and ignored empirical evidence.

I supported Brexit because I wanted to "take back control" over our borders. Yet we already have control over them, and our border control is more than stringent enough. We still have border control, passport checks and identity checks. Issues like terror go beyond borders and require global cooperation.

Also, the arguments for Brexit are sometimes contradictory. On the one hand the EU is supposed to be a horrible protectionist club which won't let us make free trade deals with other countries. Yet these same people advocate protectionism in the form of restrictions on freedom of movement of labour, which I find hypocritical. On the other hand the EU is also a globalist neoliberal organisation which undermines state sovereignty. So on the one hand the EU is bad because it is protectionist, so the answer is...protectionism, and on the other the EU is bad because it is neoliberal and globalist, yet the answer is...more neoliberalism!

Now the referendum has resulted in a tyranny of the majority, a tyranny of the 52% over the 48%. I am ashamed to be associated with people who are vile enough to call their opponents "enemies of the people" and bully judges and MPs in such a disgraceful manner. We have torn away from that august tradition of rule by the British Parliament and adopted rule by the unwashed masses. It's like the English Civil War when mobs gathered outside Parliament to terrify the Commons into obeying its voracious will. Our elected representatives have caved in a way that would make Burke blush, and refused to cancel this dreadful decision, even though the referendum was merely advisory. And now a majority of British voters think that Brexit was the wrong decision.

Sorry Remainers, you were right.
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Reality Check
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Watch the brexiteers froth at the mouth at this... :rofl:
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Sammylou40
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You've changed your mind? Too late!!
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Juan Perón
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(Original post by Sammylou40)
You've changed your mind? Too late!!
Actually I didn't vote, I was too young. And a good thing too, because I would have voted Leave.
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dxnnybrxwn
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Glad you saw some sense. You're very right in that brexit basically sold people dreams
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Reality Check)
Watch the brexiteers froth at the mouth at this... :rofl:
Defectors will be shot.

I shall hopefully remember to respond to his post in detail in a few hours.
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Stewart Dent
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Tim Farron just came in his pants
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Joep95
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(Original post by Juan Perón)
The EU is a counter-balance to the UK government if it takes particularly damaging actions. Supra-national institutions are necessary to serve as a check on nation-states to preserve the freedom of the individuals within those states. Now the government has free rein to remove workers' rights, allow corporations to pollute our air and God knows what else.
What about if the eu decides to do those things you say that the government could do? The eu could do those things so maybe we need a global institution but they could do that so we would need a universal institution etc etc
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Juan Perón)
the right of the people in charge of the state to do whatever they want). The EU is a counter-balance to the UK government if it takes particularly damaging actions. Supra-national institutions are necessary to serve as a

Now the referendum has resulted in a tyranny of the majority, a tyranny of the 52% over the 48%. I am
Sorry Remainers, you were right.
I have chopped your post to the important bits due to the length.

I was going to try debate all your points however reading through it seems that these two are most pertinent. The first suggests that you do not trust your own government, the second suggests that it is not right for the majority to choose the fate of their country (be that a majority of citizens or politicians).
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CherishFreedom
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So you suddenly recognise the accusations of 'demagoguery, nativism, xenophobia, ignorance, prejudice and historically-illiterate nostalgia' on Brexiteers. This seems like a big u-turn. It's interesting that you supported Brexit, and then now you suddenly take an extreme opposition to literally every mainstream argument of Brexit. From my perspective here, things are looking pretty much as most Brexiteers had expected Brexit to look like (if not, even better than expected). The economy is in a good shape, there are political posturing from the UK and the EU as expected, Article 50 triggered, snap general election called, UK to replace EU legislations after exiting the EU.

What changed so drastically between your expectation during the referendum debate, and the UK now that made you flip your views completely?

Another interesting thing is that your account is new, and therefore there is no history of you ever posting anything supporting Brexit or criticising remain.

Something tells me you were not really a Brexiteer at the first place. In my judgement, you are quite likely a remainer, trying to disguise as a regretful Brexit supporter. In other words, it looks almost like a typical remain 'circle-jerk' post, except that you framed it in a dishonest, back-handed and confession-like way.

I'll leave you to defend yourself, and others to judge. If it's true, it's not clever and is a tad sad to be frank.
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Bang Outta Order
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Bait.

You were never for Leaving, you're just saying that so you don't come off like the typical Remoaner you are, meanwhile you're using the same rinsed out overused terminology like "xenophobia" trying to sound smart.

At the end of the day, there's "flaws" in every political concept simply because there's always gonna be someone whinging about how it's "wrong." But Brexit still has its pros, mostly the fact that it seeks to stop trafficking from other EU countries.

The huge drug and prostitution problem comes from Antwerp and Rotterdam in Netherlands, connecting to Hull on the East border of this country. This ferry route brings a copious amount of illegals, women, children, drugs, and firearms, and God knows what else, from other EU countries and Asia. Brexit's policies should eventually prevent or lessen this situation in the future. That is my main reason for supporting it.

Also, David Cameron is a Conservative, yet he wanted to remain so badly he quit (if this wasn't planned anyway no matter the outcome). So the true "liberals" and people who want proper progress in this country are the ones voting to Leave. I will never in my life turn my back on these pros in Leaving while also realising I have to accept some backhand results, but there's backhand results for everything.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by 0to100)
Bait.

You were never for Leaving, you're just saying that so you don't come off like the typical Remoaner you are, meanwhile you're using the same rinsed out overused terminology like "xenophobia" trying to sound smart.

At the end of the day, there's "flaws" in every political concept simply because there's always gonna be someone whinging about how it's "wrong." But Brexit still has its pros, mostly the fact that it seeks to stop trafficking from other EU countries.

The huge drug and prostitution problem comes from Antwerp and Rotterdam in Netherlands, connecting to Hull on the East border of this country. This ferry route brings a copious amount of illegals, women, children, drugs, and firearms, and God knows what else, from other EU countries and Asia. Brexit's policies should eventually prevent or lessen this situation in the future. That is my main reason for supporting it.

Also, David Cameron is a Conservative, yet he wanted to remain so badly he quit (if this wasn't planned anyway no matter the outcome). So the true "liberals" and people who want proper progress in this country are the ones voting to Leave. I will never in my life turn my back on these pros in Leaving while also realising I have to accept some backhand results, but there's backhand results for everything.
He jumped before he was pushed by the Brexit cabal. There were a lot of right wingers who either thought him impure, disliked him for being a Remainer or had never been brought to the cabinet for example.
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SaucissonSecCy
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Well written.

I don't believe for one second that you are a Brexit voter.

There is too much ill-concealed political zeal in that post.
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markova21
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You say that Brexit was a mistake. Well i'll let you into a wee secret. We haven't left yet. Nice try, pretending to be a Brexiteer all along. I don't buy it one iota.
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Bang Outta Order
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(Original post by markova21)
You say that Brexit was a mistake. Well i'll let you into a wee secret. We haven't left yet. Nice try, pretending to be a Brexiteer all along. I don't buy it one iota.
(Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
Well written.

I don't believe for one second that you are a Brexit voter.

There is too much ill-concealed political zeal in that post.
:rofl:
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Bang Outta Order
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(Original post by Juan Perón)
Actually I didn't vote, I was too young. And a good thing too, because I would have voted Leave.
knew it, piece of tripe thread

SaucissonSecCy markova21


see. he was lying. didn't even vote. and too young aka an uninformed child.
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Bang Outta Order
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(Original post by Rakas21)
He jumped before he was pushed by the Brexit cabal. There were a lot of right wingers who either thought him impure, disliked him for being a Remainer or had never been brought to the cabinet for example.
whatever
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Rhythmical
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(Original post by 0to100)
whatever
Hello my favourite Leave voter.
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Bang Outta Order
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(Original post by Rhythmical)
Hello my favourite Leave voter.
hello my least favourite remain would-have
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Rhythmical
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(Original post by 0to100)
hello my least favourite remain would-have
Oh burn I was coming here to see if you could make me more optimistic about Brexit...
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