Why does anyone think voting tory is a good idea? Watch

extermin8or
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#41
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#41
(Original post by RF_PineMarten)
Why do people immediately jump to ridiculous extremes whenever anything even vaguely left wing is mentioned, and compare it to socialism and countries like Venezuela? Venezuela is an authoritarian government with all sorts of other social problems; Britain is a stable democracy with a different standard of "left wing". Comparisons like that are ridiculous.

For crying out loud, "socialism" is not a catch all term for anything you disagree with, or for anything outside of Tory party policy.
Except have you seen the recent labour manifesto leak? Or the shadow Chancellor saying Marx-leneism is the way to go. (note proper socialism has never worked, not in a single country. I'm not even talking full blown communism there either. It works for select services/sectors such as for health services but that's about it and even that has serious issues). Actually look at the rhetoric corbyn is spouting aswell. That comparison actually isn't that far our there.
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Metalfros
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#42
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Voting Tory is dumb. Let the hate come!
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extermin8or
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#43
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(Original post by BigYoSpeck)
Do you have Boris as your avatar out of irony or do you not care that he's an appalling excuse for a human being?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ed-nasty-video
Because. The guardian is a great example of unbiased high brown reporting of late... Oh.... Hang on a moment.
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BigYoSpeck
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#44
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(Original post by extermin8or)
Because. The guardian is a great example of unbiased high brown reporting of late... Oh.... Hang on a moment.
In case you didn't follow the link, it being The Guardian is irrelevant. It's from a BBC interview, and even if you don't judge the BBC to be reputable, the source is irrelevant, it's pure simple facts of things the man has done, and his pathetic attempt to weasel out from them.
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extermin8or
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(Original post by BigYoSpeck)
In case you didn't follow the link, it being The Guardian is irrelevant. It's from a BBC interview, and even if you don't judge the BBC to be reputable, the source is irrelevant, it's pure simple facts of things the man has done, and his pathetic attempt to weasel out from them.
Oh nor the BBC is fine, of late I've read far too much guardian, they've been starting to make the daily mail look intelligent someone the tripe they publish. (Had an article the other day about how James bond was so disgusting to all modern values it should be canned and implying if you enjoyed any of the films you were a bad person - they like to imply or on occasion outright state I've noticed what opinions apparently (according to them) make you a terrible people. Anyway I digress.
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Wired_1800
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#46
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Wow, there is so much ignorance about the Labour Party on this thread.

Some people are arguing about absolute rubbish and repeating the lies that the press has fed to them. Now I understand why Americans got Trump, many cannot think for themselves.

The Labour Government is the best option we have to saving this country. The tories have destroyed the country to the extent that nurses are going to food banks, homelessness has risen across the country, education standards are dodgy, while the rich are getting richer.

People need to wake up and stop playing personality politics with their futures. You may not like how Corbyn, Abbott or McDonnell looks but they have policies that will transform this nation for the better.

I watched BBC Question Time, where one woman was crying that she voted Tory and they took away some of her benefits. I was angry at how stupid she was.

Let me put this for you, George Osborne ruined the economy, and then got jobs advising a big bank and working for the London Evening Standard. When he faced criticism, he simply quit as an MP. This is a man, who said that he puts his constituents and country first.

Please wake up and stop playing the fool for the rich. Trust me, the tories don't care about you.
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RF_PineMarten
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#47
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(Original post by extermin8or)
Except have you seen the recent labour manifesto leak? Or the shadow Chancellor saying Marx-leneism is the way to go. (note proper socialism has never worked, not in a single country. I'm not even talking full blown communism there either. It works for select services/sectors such as for health services but that's about it and even that has serious issues). Actually look at the rhetoric corbyn is spouting aswell. That comparison actually isn't that far our there.
Social democracy seemed to work well for the UK when we managed to build things like the NHS out of the debt ridden ashes of world war 2. And we managed to reduce the debt significantly while doing all that. It's really not as clear cut as you're making it out to be.
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extermin8or
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(Original post by BigYoSpeck)
In case you didn't follow the link, it being The Guardian is irrelevant. It's from a BBC interview, and even if you don't judge the BBC to be reputable, the source is irrelevant, it's pure simple facts of things the man has done, and his pathetic attempt to weasel out from them.

Well I have actually seen the video before and whilst I don't know much about his incident with the times, he was fired and suffered the consequences of those actions, although it sounds fairly minor in the grand scheme of things and as though it was many years ago-everyone does make mistakes. I don't agree with people having affairs etc however their private life so long as not breaking the law isn't in my opinion anyones business to judge them on although I understand why some care but equally I understand why he lied about it and whilst I can't believe I'd ever cheat on anyone, I can't say I wouldn't lie when asked regardless of whom by (bar a police investigation in which it's relevant ofc) for obvious reasons. The more people you tell a secret the more likely it will be discovered. Finally the voice recording. It's embarrassing to be sure, however Boris clearly feels quite uncomfortable with the call and didn't do what he agreed to and so it would seem was just humouring him.
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paul514
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#49
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
The Labour Government is the best option we have to saving this country. The tories have destroyed the country to the extent that nurses are going to food banks, homelessness has risen across the country, education standards are dodgy, while the rich are getting richer.

Nurses who's salary is higher than the national average wage and who's minimum starting wage is only 5k below the national average wage.... yea ok it's their pay that drove them to a food bank 😂

There are no accurate figures for homelessness but when prices for having a roof over your head rise, homelessness would also rise.

There are 1.8 million more kids in a school classed as good or outstanding than before they came in..... hardly dodgy.

The rich always get richer, we live in a capitalist system and all the quantitive easing we have done pushes asset prices through the roof....

You say how stupid people are and list a load of *******s that means nothing, it's you that doesn't have a clue.



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1998RF
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(Original post by Ambitious1999)
Voting Tory is a good idea if: 1) you are rich and hate the poor, 2) want the welfare system abolished, 3) want the NHS abolished 4) read the daily mail, and believe what they see on the endless channel 5 to shows demonising people on benefits and 5) are a vile racist and hate Europe.

If that's you then your a true Tory through and through.
Has it never occurred to you that not all Tories are, as you so maladroitly phrase it, vile racists , but vote Conservative because, for them, there is no viable alternative? You vote Labour (or whatever it is you vote) because it suits your needs most, for some people voting Tory suits them most.
Why do people struggle accepting the fact that no one political party is going to suit everyone? It's up to each individual person what they want to vote and they shouldn't be attacked in any way for that.
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Wired_1800
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#51
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(Original post by paul514)
Nurses who's salary is higher than the national average wage and who's minimum starting wage is only 5k below the national average wage.... yea ok it's their pay that drove them to a food bank 😂

There are no accurate figures for homelessness but when prices for having a roof over your head rise, homelessness would also rise.

There are 1.8 million more kids in a school classed as good or outstanding than before they came in..... hardly dodgy.

The rich always get richer, we live in a capitalist system and all the quantitive easing we have done pushes asset prices through the roof....

You say how stupid people are and list a load of *******s that means nothing, it's you that doesn't have a clue.



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Okay.

First of all, please get your facts right. The nursing salary varies according to hospital and nature of work. The average starting salary is about £21k. This average then rises to about £28k depending on the experience and other factors. However, this is not often the case because i directly know people who get paid less than £21k. Unfortunately, their salaries are not as fantastic and you seem to put it.

Even with that salary, the number of hours worked should make paying such a ridiculous amount to be banned.

As you stated, the rising cost of living should be reflected by the rising cost of wages, which have not gone up. These coupled with taking care of families would push them towards food banks.

For homelessness, when cost of living goes up, the government needs to invest more and not remove resources. The thought that you seem to be content with homelessness in some way, is deeply worrying.

Education is one of the numerous cases where government costs are destroying the system. If the number of pupils in a school rise, then surely the investment should rise and not fall?

I think that people like you have been fed a lie and believe in a dog eat dog world of Tory capitalist society.

I hope that everyone gets their karma and you feel the pain that people feel everyday under the Tory Government.

Finally, you dont really know me, so dont assume that i dont have a clue. I may be closer to the truth than you think.
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Wired_1800
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#52
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(Original post by 1998RF)
Has it never occurred to you that not all Tories are, as you so maladroitly phrase it, vile racists , but vote Conservative because, for them, there is no viable alternative? You vote Labour (or whatever it is you vote) because it suits your needs most, for some people voting Tory suits them most.
Why do people struggle accepting the fact that no one political party is going to suit everyone? It's up to each individual person what they want to vote and they shouldn't be attacked in any way for that.
Some people supported the Nazi Party during Hitler's reign. Then he caused a world war and killed 6 million Jews.

I am in no way comparing the tories to nazis, but trying to rebute your statement that voting tory suits some people most and it should kinda of be accepted.

I think people need to speak about the deep issues that have risen from the tory government.

There is this sad idea that people arguing against Tory cuts and plans are just "stupid leftist liberals" who dont know anything.

I am in no way arguing that Labour is the Messiah, but i think they have a good chance of saving the nation from Tory disaster.
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seaholme
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#53
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(Original post by BigYoSpeck)
The choice is basically either an unproven government with such bold promises that people are sceptical of in Labour.

Or a well proven and highly effective government in the Conservatives. The problem is I don't mean that as a compliment. The conservatives have been incredibly effective at pushing down the quality of living for normal people. Britain being a country with a healthy growing economy, yet the only country in Europe other than Greece with a decline in average people's real earnings. Austerity measures that are decimating health care with an NHS on the brink. Cuts to social care that has cost lives. Cuts to education while pushing for a tiered system in grammar schools that has historically favoured the already affluent.

If you vote for the Conservatives you are electing a government that is highly competent at doing what it does. But what it does is hurting you. Maybe Labours plans are pie in the sky, but given how many countries around the world successfully provide high standards of living to average people without worrying about being a large global economy isn't it worth taking a chance on?

I'd sooner put my faith in a man I don't know can do the job he's claiming he can do, but at least wants to do the job we need someone to do rather than a woman I know for sure can do the job she's planning on doing which will harm 95% of the people in this country.
This essentially summarises my own feelings on the issue. It's voting for competent evil as opposed to voting for well-meaning incompetence. And even the party of well-meaning incompetence (Labour) has some pretty serious flaws.

All I can say is how messed up this country is that we don't have any option for somebody who is both competent AND interested in improving the lives of citizens...

I do find it difficult to see how people can vote for the Conservatives given they are offering nothing but more of the same destruction of our living standards, institutions, freedom and economy. I have to say in my opinion a lot of it comes down to the fact that Corbyn is just such a poor choice of leader.
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paul514
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Okay.

First of all, please get your facts right. The nursing salary varies according to hospital and nature of work. The average starting salary is about £21k. This average then rises to about £28k depending on the experience and other factors. However, this is not often the case because i directly know people who get paid less than £21k. Unfortunately, their salaries are not as fantastic and you seem to put it.

Even with that salary, the number of hours worked should make paying such a ridiculous amount to be banned.

As you stated, the rising cost of living should be reflected by the rising cost of wages, which have not gone up. These coupled with taking care of families would push them towards food banks.

For homelessness, when cost of living goes up, the government needs to invest more and not remove resources. The thought that you seem to be content with homelessness in some way, is deeply worrying.

Education is one of the numerous cases where government costs are destroying the system. If the number of pupils in a school rise, then surely the investment should rise and not fall?

I think that people like you have been fed a lie and believe in a dog eat dog world of Tory capitalist society.

I hope that everyone gets their karma and you feel the pain that people feel everyday under the Tory Government.

Finally, you dont really know me, so dont assume that i dont have a clue. I may be closer to the truth than you think.
All of my facts were correct average nurse starting salary is 22k which is 28k in London. With overtime and unsocial hours payments it's even more. Average salary is 27k uk wide.

If they need to use food banks then so do 10's of millions of other people but they don't do this whole nurses using food banks point is *******s. Any nurse who is using them is bad at budgeting.

I don't hate the homeless or anything like that but until enough social and private houses are built it will just get worse as housing costs are massive out of people's budgets.

It's a fact 1.8 million more kids are in good and outstanding schools regardless of what's happened/happening to budgets.

You can spin what you like but they are all facts


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seaholme
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(Original post by angelike1)
If we claim to NEVER use our nuclear weapons no matter what that leaves us in a massive danger zone.
If somebody wants to use a nuclear weapon us having one or not isn't going to make a difference. If our view is that we'd never be the first to fire one (and I'd hope that is the case!), we may as well not have them at all, as the only way we'd ever use them would be reactive. And reactively firing a nuclear weapon simply assures the deaths of millions more innocent people than are already about to die, as we unleash our bomb to blow them up in the intervening minutes before getting blown up ourselves. What a splendid victory...
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TheMightyBadger
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#56
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The Tories are not illiterate and have common sense.
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Jackieox
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Because scrapping tuition fees is such a brilliant plan isn't it?
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TheMightyBadger
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Oh yeah, I forgot to add that the Tories actually understand economics and how to achieve certain objectives. This may not mean that they have achieved them all, but at least they understand basic economics and can count.
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seaholme
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(Original post by Jackieox)
Because scrapping tuition fees is such a brilliant plan isn't it?
To be fair, there may be something in it. Putting the fees up to £9,000 in the face of stagnant incomes for most young people will actually cost the country far more in the long run because so much of that debt will never be repaid and the government will still own it.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...y-costing-more

http://londoneconomics.co.uk/wp-cont...rsion-docx.pdf
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by paul514)
All of my facts were correct average nurse starting salary is 22k which is 28k in London. With overtime and unsocial hours payments it's even more. Average salary is 27k uk wide.

If they need to use food banks then so do 10's of millions of other people but they don't do this whole nurses using food banks point is *******s. Any nurse who is using them is bad at budgeting.

I don't hate the homeless or anything like that but until enough social and private houses are built it will just get worse as housing costs are massive out of people's budgets.

It's a fact 1.8 million more kids are in good and outstanding schools regardless of what's happened/happening to budgets.

You can spin what you like but they are all facts


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I am not trying spin. I am just trying to portray what it is like to live in austerity britain.

Not all nurses, get the benefits that you seem to claim. Like i said before, i know people who struggle with the current system. A friend who is a nurse has a contracted 11:30 hours per day and her final salary is about £20850. When you add the odd overtime that she does it comes up to £23450. That is her working more than 55 hours per week.

With rising costs, one can see that she cannot even reach the average salary, when she clocks more time than the average worker does.

The fact of 1.8million pupils is a positive despite tory cuts to education budgets. You have teachers, administrators and other heads campaigning for more support. Yet, there is the barely minimum.

You have confirmed my point with housing that we need more investment over drastic and deep cuts. How can we build 1 million new homes, when the government is asking local councils to look for more ways to "save" money? Despite there being no money to save.

The truth of the matter is that people are suffering under a harsh tory government. This was very similar to the Tatcher Government.

All I ask is that people wake up and say enough is enough. Else, the tories will push more people off the cliff.
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