Why does anyone think voting tory is a good idea? Watch

Wired_1800
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Rock Fan)
Him and Gordon Brown wrecked our economy and let everyone and everyone into the country, don't mind people coming from abroad but it needs to be controlled
So Tony Blair wrecked the economy or the bankers destroyed it?

Immigration is one aspect of the debate, so try to look at other things. Don't limit it to one topic like brexit or immigration. Else you run the risk of making a grave mistake.
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username2808800
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Wired_1800)
So Tony Blair wrecked the economy or the bankers destroyed it?
He overspent between 2002 and 2008. He inherited a good economy to from John Major

Clinton was the real housing villain and the crash was inspired by hydraulic keynesianism-The belief infinite credit supply would lead to infinite growth.

Let us see what Clinton did.
Under Clinton's Housing and Urban Development (HUD) secretary, Andrew Cuomo, Community Reinvestment Act regulators gave banks higher ratings for home loans made in "credit-deprived" areas. Banks were effectively rewarded for throwing out sound underwriting standards and writing loans to those who were at high risk of defaulting. If banks didn't comply with these rules, regulators reined in their ability to expand lending and deposits.

These new HUD rules lowered down payments from the traditional 20 percent to 3 percent by 1995 and zero down-payments by 2000. What's more, in the Clinton push to issue home loans to lower income borrowers, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made a common practice to virtually end credit documentation, low credit scores were disregarded, and income and job history was also thrown aside. The phrase "subprime" became commonplace. What an understatement.

Next, the Clinton administration's rules ordered the taxpayer-backed Fannie and Freddie to expand their quotas of risky loans from 30 percent of portfolio to 50 percent as part of a big push to expand home ownership.

Fannie and Freddie were securitizing these home loans and offering 100 percent taxpayer guarantees of repayment. So now taxpayers were on the hook for these risky, low down-payment loans.

Tragically, when prices fell, lower-income folks who really could not afford these mortgages under normal credit standards, suffered massive foreclosures and personal bankruptcies. So many will never get credit again. It's a perfect example of liberals using government allegedly to help the poor, but the ultimate consequences were disastrous for them.

Additionally, ultra-easy money from the Fed also played a key role. Rates were held too low for too long in 2002-2005, which created asset price bubbles in housing, commodities, gold, oil, and elsewhere. When the Fed finally tightened, prices collapsed. So did mortgage collateral (homes) and mortgage bonds that depended on the collateral.

Many bond packages were written to please Fannie and Freddie, based on the fantastical idea that home prices would never fall. Fannie and Freddie, by the way, cost the taxpayers $187 billion.

Just to make this story worse, Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama voted to filibuster a Republican effort to roll back Fannie and Freddie. But on top of all this, while Hillary was propping up Fannie and Freddie, she was taking contributions from their foundations.

Never in history has a crash happened because banks have shoddy loans. It's not in their interest to make loans to people who cannot afford them .

Look at the acts he signed and the role Fannie and Freddie's played.


Monetary policy then played a factor

The failure of monetary policy and the cheap dollar were a big factor.

The weak dollar inflated the housing market..
Both Bush and Clinton have the responsibility .
Bush lost control of spending and abandoned Regan's monetary policy.( I am blaming George Bush and yes he was a republican).
George Bush was awful.


Let me quote.
"In the recession of 2001, the Federal Reserve System…began aggressively expanding the U.S. money supply. Year-over-year growth in the M-2 monetary aggregate rose briefly above 10 percent, and remained above 8 percent entering the second half of 2003. The expansion was accompanied by the Fed repeatedly lowering its target for the federal funds (interbank short term) interest rate. The federal funds rate began 2001 at 6.25 percent and ended the year at 1.75 percent. It was reduced further in 2002 and 2003, in mid-2003 reaching a record low of 1 percent, where it stayed for a year. The real Fed funds rate was negative…for two and a half years. In purchasing power terms, during that period a borrower was not paying but rather gaining in proportion to what he borrowed. Economist Steve Hanke has summarized the result: This set off the mother of all liquidity cycles and yet another massive demand bubble.
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Rock Fan
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Wired_1800)
So Tony Blair wrecked the economy or the bankers destroyed it?

Immigration is one aspect of the debate, so try to look at other things. Don't limit it to one topic like brexit or immigration. Else you run the risk of making a grave mistake.
Always good to hear all sides of the argumemt, why did no one stop the bankers though?
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Wired_1800
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#84
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(Original post by Rock Fan)
Always good to hear all sides of the argumemt, why did no one stop the bankers though?
Because they were was a global spending spree. Many people did not know that they were making dodgy deals. This led to the crisis in 2008, when the bankers could not handle the chaos.
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Wired_1800
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#85
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(Original post by fleky6910)
He overspent between 2002 and 2008. He inherited a good economy to from John Major

Clinton was the real housing villain and the crash was inspired by hydraulic keynesianism-The belief infinite credit supply would lead to infinite growth.

Let us see what Clinton did.
Under Clinton's Housing and Urban Development (HUD) secretary, Andrew Cuomo, Community Reinvestment Act regulators gave banks higher ratings for home loans made in "credit-deprived" areas. Banks were effectively rewarded for throwing out sound underwriting standards and writing loans to those who were at high risk of defaulting. If banks didn't comply with these rules, regulators reined in their ability to expand lending and deposits.

These new HUD rules lowered down payments from the traditional 20 percent to 3 percent by 1995 and zero down-payments by 2000. What's more, in the Clinton push to issue home loans to lower income borrowers, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac made a common practice to virtually end credit documentation, low credit scores were disregarded, and income and job history was also thrown aside. The phrase "subprime" became commonplace. What an understatement.

Next, the Clinton administration's rules ordered the taxpayer-backed Fannie and Freddie to expand their quotas of risky loans from 30 percent of portfolio to 50 percent as part of a big push to expand home ownership.

Fannie and Freddie were securitizing these home loans and offering 100 percent taxpayer guarantees of repayment. So now taxpayers were on the hook for these risky, low down-payment loans.

Tragically, when prices fell, lower-income folks who really could not afford these mortgages under normal credit standards, suffered massive foreclosures and personal bankruptcies. So many will never get credit again. It's a perfect example of liberals using government allegedly to help the poor, but the ultimate consequences were disastrous for them.

Additionally, ultra-easy money from the Fed also played a key role. Rates were held too low for too long in 2002-2005, which created asset price bubbles in housing, commodities, gold, oil, and elsewhere. When the Fed finally tightened, prices collapsed. So did mortgage collateral (homes) and mortgage bonds that depended on the collateral.

Many bond packages were written to please Fannie and Freddie, based on the fantastical idea that home prices would never fall. Fannie and Freddie, by the way, cost the taxpayers $187 billion.

Just to make this story worse, Senator Hillary Clinton and Senator Barack Obama voted to filibuster a Republican effort to roll back Fannie and Freddie. But on top of all this, while Hillary was propping up Fannie and Freddie, she was taking contributions from their foundations.

Never in history has a crash happened because banks have shoddy loans. It's not in their interest to make loans to people who cannot afford them .

Look at the acts he signed and the role Fannie and Freddie's played.


Monetary policy then played a factor

The failure of monetary policy and the cheap dollar were a big factor.

The weak dollar inflated the housing market..
Both Bush and Clinton have the responsibility .
Bush lost control of spending and abandoned Regan's monetary policy.( I am blaming George Bush and yes he was a republican).
George Bush was awful.


Let me quote.
"In the recession of 2001, the Federal Reserve System…began aggressively expanding the U.S. money supply. Year-over-year growth in the M-2 monetary aggregate rose briefly above 10 percent, and remained above 8 percent entering the second half of 2003. The expansion was accompanied by the Fed repeatedly lowering its target for the federal funds (interbank short term) interest rate. The federal funds rate began 2001 at 6.25 percent and ended the year at 1.75 percent. It was reduced further in 2002 and 2003, in mid-2003 reaching a record low of 1 percent, where it stayed for a year. The real Fed funds rate was negative…for two and a half years. In purchasing power terms, during that period a borrower was not paying but rather gaining in proportion to what he borrowed. Economist Steve Hanke has summarized the result: This set off the mother of all liquidity cycles and yet another massive demand bubble.
Did you write all these within 4 mins or did you copy and paste from another article?

Like i wrote before, many people did not know how bad the problem was with the banks and their dodgy deals.

This was a global problem, so it is unfair to claim that Tony Blair / Gordon Brown should get the sole blame.
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Rock Fan
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#86
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What about the Iraq war
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Wired_1800
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#87
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#87
(Original post by Rock Fan)
What about the Iraq war
Tony Blair has taken responsibility for the illegal war. Jeremy Corbyn voted against it.
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username1530463
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#88
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#88
(Original post by ScottishBrexitor)
It's actually in Labour's interest to lose in June than in May 2020 so they can replace Corbyn with someone sane.
There is no election in 2020. Because of this snap general election, the next General Election is in 2022. After we've left the EU.
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username2808800
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#89
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Did you write all these within 4 mins or did you copy and paste from another article?

Like i wrote before, many people did not know how bad the problem was with the banks and their dodgy deals.

This was a global problem, so it is unfair to claim that Tony Blair / Gordon Brown should get the sole blame.
#

The ' bankers did it' is a simplistic, moronic view of how 2008 happened.

There are several factors which contributed to it, monetary policy , Freddie Mac , Bill Clinton, Bush.

You clearly don't know what your talking about.

Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were not responsible for 2008.
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username2808800
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#90
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(Original post by Rock Fan)
Always good to hear all sides of the argumemt, why did no one stop the bankers though?
Read my post about Bill. No one expected it. And' the bankers' is a simplistic explanation.
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richpanda
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Ambitious1999)
Voting Tory is a good idea if: 1) you are rich and hate the poor, 2) want the welfare system abolished, 3) want the NHS abolished 4) read the daily mail, and believe what they see on the endless channel 5 to shows demonising people on benefits and 5) are a vile racist and hate Europe.

If that's you then your a true Tory through and through.
This post sums up exactly why people don't like the Labour party
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Wired_1800
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#92
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(Original post by fleky6910)
#

The ' bankers did it' is a simplistic, moronic view of how 2008 happened.

There are several factors which contributed to it, monetary policy , Freddie Mac , Bill Clinton, Bush.

You clearly don't know what your talking about.

Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were not responsible for 2008.
Haha, you don't know me, so you should be careful.

The major trigger to the 2008 crisis was the sub-prime mortgage credit default in the US, where major lenders could not recoup their costs and called in their debts. This became global because most of the affected institutions where major banks with global operations.

When i wrote that it was the bankers' fault, this was factually accurate. It was their responsibility to conduct business in a safe manner but some dodgy players within the market mixed safe options with very risky ones.

This led to the seperation between investment and retail banking because investment involved riskier options than the standard retail divisions.

Just because you pasted articles does not mean that you know anything. I work in a major institution that was directly involved in 2008 crisis, so I clearly known what happened, the actors responsible and the resulting effect.

For security reasons, i would not go into more detail.
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paul514
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#93
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Did you write all these within 4 mins or did you copy and paste from another article?

Like i wrote before, many people did not know how bad the problem was with the banks and their dodgy deals.

This was a global problem, so it is unfair to claim that Tony Blair / Gordon Brown should get the sole blame.
It's their fault in this country for not regulating it.

That's it.


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username2808800
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#94
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I work in a major institution that was directly involved in 2008 crisis, so I clearly known what happened, the actors responsible and the resulting effect.
Do you acknowledge Clinton's role, Fraddie Mac's role and monetary policy?
Do you work for a bank?

(Original post by Wired_1800)
The major trigger to the 2008 crisis was the sub-prime mortgage credit default in the US, where major lenders could not recoup their costs and called in their debts. This became global because most of the affected institutions where major banks with global operations.
I already knew this.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by paul514)
It's their fault in this country for not regulating it.

That's it.


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I agree they are partially responsible but I don't think it is their fault.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by fleky6910)
Do you acknowledge Clinton's role, Fraddie Mac's role and monetary policy?
Do you work for a bank?


I already knew this.
I acknowledge that government officials should have done more.

However, the question is who was at fault and the fault lies squarely with the bankers. Not all bankers, but those who were involved in those dodgy operations.
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username2808800
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I acknowledge that government officials should have done more.
Bill Clinton encouraged banks to lend to people who could not pay it back.Monetary policy and Freddie Mac played a role. You are not answering the questions asked to you.

Yes the bankers had some responsibility but they were not the sole cause.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by fleky6910)
Bill Clinton encouraged banks to lend to people who could not pay it back.Monetary policy and Freddie Mac played a role. You are not answering the questions asked to you.

Yes the bankers had some responsibility but they were not the sole cause.
Like i wrote before government officials did not provide good regulatory frameworks. For this reason, they have a responsibility. However, the fault lies with the bankers, who were involved.
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username2808800
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
Like i wrote before government officials did not provide good regulatory frameworks. For this reason, they have a responsibility. However, the fault lies with the bankers, who were involved.
Answer these questions. You worked at a firm affected, does not make you an expert.

a)Do you acknowledge Clinton encouraged banks to lend to the poor
b)Do you acknowledge the role of Freddie Mac?
c)Do you acknowledge the role of monetary policy?
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by fleky6910)
Answer these questions. You worked at a firm affected, does not make you an expert.

a)Do you acknowledge Clinton encouraged banks to lend to the poor
b)Do you acknowledge the role of Freddie Mac?
c)Do you acknowledge the role of monetary policy?
I have answered your questions. Government officials had a responsibility, but not at fault.
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