Explain this to me? Watch

AnonymousIBDA1
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 2 years ago
#1
I posted this but it seems to have vanished.

Hi guyz,
This is a question to all Muslim friends out there? How should I interpret Surah 9:29 of the Qur'an? It says and I quote:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."

Now I am not islamophobic or have anything against Muslims. It's just that whenever there's a terrorist attack by people claiming to be Muslims I told that these people aren't Muslims, and the Qur'an only preaches peace. This verse and many others don't. Could someone explain the context of this verse, please?

Thanks
0
reply
Friffinghell
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#2
Report 2 years ago
#2
Wellllll.... I'm not Muslim... but this particular passage is no longer valid in todays terms- it originated circa the ottoman empire and died out in the late 1800s.

The jizyah was a tax imposed on resident non-muslims as the main bureaucracy and government was fulfilled via religious centres which would leave them exempt otherwise.

The jizyah isn't a thing anymore. Thus the need to convert or face paying the jizyah is no longer an issue.

So it's a passage of historical interest.
1
reply
username2926188
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#3
Report 2 years ago
#3
If you really wanted to know the answer and not just have another thread where people are bashing Muslims then you could've easily asked us on the ISOC thread. Getting tired.
1
reply
Plantagenet Crown
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#4
Report 2 years ago
#4
It's demonstrably untrue that the Quran contains only peace. A 5 second Google search will yield violent verse after violent verse.
1
reply
Friffinghell
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#5
Report 2 years ago
#5
A story involving violence is not the same as preaching violence.

The bible and the Quran has the stories of Cain and Abel for example. But it's a moral story about jealousy. Violence is involved but it's not a story that advocates violence.
0
reply
Lord_Mediocre
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#6
Report 2 years ago
#6
(Original post by emerald7770)
If you really wanted to know the answer and not just have another thread were people are bashing Muslims then you could've easily asked us on the ISOC thread. Getting tired.
Except ISoc doesn't allow any debate on the issue.
0
reply
That'sGreat
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#7
Report 2 years ago
#7
You don't need to be a genius to interpret it, the whole Qu'ran is full of violence, which is weird for a "religion of peace". The real Muslims are the ones who follow the Quran properly, and they're the ones causing us problems. You might have Muslim friends, but they just cherry pick from the Quran, so it's right to say that the true Islam is being carried out by the vile terrorists, not by your friends.
1
reply
Lord_Mediocre
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#8
Report 2 years ago
#8
(Original post by Friffinghell)
A story involving violence is not the same as preaching violence.

The bible and the Quran has the stories of Cain and Abel for example. But it's a moral story about jealousy. Violence is involved but it's not a story that advocates violence.
“When the sacred months have passed, then kill the Mushrikin wherever you find them. Capture them. Besiege them. Lie in wait for them in each and every ambush but if they repent, and perform the prayers, and give zacat then leave their way free.”

Where is the moral story there? Seems to just be violent!
0
reply
Friffinghell
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#9
Report 2 years ago
#9
(Original post by That'sGreat)
You don't need to be a genius to interpret it, the whole Qu'ran is full of violence, which is weird for a "religion of peace". The real Muslims are the ones who follow the Quran properly, and they're the ones causing us problems. You might have Muslim friends, but they just cherry pick from the Quran, so it's right to say that the true Islam is being carried out by the vile terrorists, not by your friends.
Your definition is problematic.

Firstly, I would be hard pushed to think of a religious text that doesn't mention violence. So... meh.

The 'real muslims'. 'Real muslims?' Is there pretend ones?

Reading the Quran, or a religious text is a bit like reading poetry. It's quite open to interpretation. Some people are adamant that their way is the correct way - but that's not necessarily the way that the author intended. People will always skew text to fit their narrative if it suits them to do so.

'True Islam'.... I'd assume that you're referring to people who apply religious texts in a literal sense? Wellllll... they'll have some real issues fulfilling functions that no longer exist. This could be described as basic illiteracy and ignorance thus they can't be described as true followers of the religion.
0
reply
Lord_Mediocre
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#10
Report 2 years ago
#10
(Original post by Friffinghell)
Your definition is problematic.

Firstly, I would be hard pushed to think of a religious text that doesn't mention violence. So... meh.

The 'real muslims'. 'Real muslims?' Is there pretend ones?

Reading the Quran, or a religious text is a bit like reading poetry. It's quite open to interpretation. Some people are adamant that their way is the correct way - but that's not necessarily the way that the author intended. People will always skew text to fit their narrative if it suits them to do so.

'True Islam'.... I'd assume that you're referring to people who apply religious texts in a literal sense? Wellllll... they'll have some real issues fulfilling functions that no longer exist. This could be described as basic illiteracy and ignorance thus they can't be described as true followers of the religion.
Why would Allah make the "perfect" scripture so outrageously open to interpretation?
0
reply
Friffinghell
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#11
Report 2 years ago
#11
(Original post by The_Mediocre_One)
“When the sacred months have passed, then kill the Mushrikin wherever you find them. Capture them. Besiege them. Lie in wait for them in each and every ambush but if they repent, and perform the prayers, and give zacat then leave their way free.”

Where is the moral story there? Seems to just be violent!
Context is everything.

This is referring to the peoples who were committing violence against the peace of the nation. Mushrikin is similar to English use of the word Pagan. If you view this from the same viewpoint as England vs the Vikings it has parallels.

So capture these people who are a threat - but if they repent and decide to join you then they are free men. If they continue to be a threat then kill them. Again, there is parallels with England/France vs Vikings as it's very much a story of assimilation in the face of a threat.
0
reply
Friffinghell
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#12
Report 2 years ago
#12
(Original post by The_Mediocre_One)
Why would Allah make the "perfect" scripture so outrageously open to interpretation?
It's like a door policy to an exclusive club.

If you're an idiot or a troublemaker then you're not allowed in.
0
reply
Lord_Mediocre
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#13
Report 2 years ago
#13
(Original post by Friffinghell)
It's like a door policy to an exclusive club.

If you're an idiot or a troublemaker then you're not allowed in.
So Islam is not a religion for everyone? Only the intellectual elite are allowed in? Except of course the intellectual elite are mostly Atheists.

Ironically most people who follow religions strictly are usually uneducated and drowning in dogma.
1
reply
Friffinghell
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#14
Report 2 years ago
#14
(Original post by The_Mediocre_One)
So Islam is not a religion for everyone? Only the intellectual elite are allowed in? Except of course the intellectual elite are mostly Atheists.

Ironically most people who follow religions strictly are usually uneducated and drowning in dogma.
As a non-religious person.... no religion is a religion for everyone.

If you interpret your religious text and *******ise it to excuse your sins then you are not truly of that religion. You can identify as it - but you are fundamentally not it.

Atheism is a belief structure of it's own. It's a valid choice. But if you're truly educated you're able to entertain discourse whilst being sensitive to the historical and geographical cultures of individuals.
0
reply
Lord_Mediocre
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#15
Report 2 years ago
#15
(Original post by Friffinghell)
As a non-religious person.... no religion is a religion for everyone.

If you interpret your religious text and *******ise it to excuse your sins then you are not truly of that religion. You can identify as it - but you are fundamentally not it.

Atheism is a belief structure of it's own. It's a valid choice. But if you're truly educated you're able to entertain discourse whilst being sensitive to the historical and geographical cultures of individuals.
Atheism isn't a belief structure in it own right, its quite the opposite. Atheism is the recognition that no religious belief system is valid.
0
reply
Friffinghell
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#16
Report 2 years ago
#16
(Original post by The_Mediocre_One)
Atheism isn't a belief structure in it own right, its quite the opposite. Atheism is the recognition that no religious belief system is valid.
Eh, that's a belief in itself.
0
reply
Lord_Mediocre
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#17
Report 2 years ago
#17
(Original post by Friffinghell)
Eh, that's a belief in itself.
It's not a universal belief structure though, its completely individual to each Atheist, aside from not believing in a God they don't follow a singular belief system that dictates their lives.
0
reply
Friffinghell
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#18
Report 2 years ago
#18
Christianity, Islam and Judaism (for example) are not universal belief structures either. There's many different factions - Roman Catholic, Episcopalians, Baptists, Ahmaddiya, Sunni, Shia, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform....

Aside from believing in a God they don't follow a singular belief system that dictates their lives.
0
reply
DancingGroot
Badges: 9
Rep:
?
#19
Report 2 years ago
#19
I'm not religious myself nor will I say I know much about the Qur'an but you should understand that it was believed to come down in pieces usually with advice on the current hardships the believers were going through, my point is that you need to read the entire surah and understand the context of the verse or at least show us all of it and ask questions then, what's the point of pointing at a couple lines and asking why it's there if you aren't even giving us context. Everyone and anyone can cherry pick anything and draw any conclusion. Radicals of both side will cherry pick verses to prove their point.
1
reply
Friffinghell
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#20
Report 2 years ago
#20
(Original post by DancingGroot)
I'm not religious myself nor will I say I know much about the Qur'an but you should understand that it was believed to come down in pieces usually with advice on the current hardships the believers were going through, my point is that you need to read the entire surah and understand the context of the verse or at least show us all of it and ask questions then, what's the point of pointing at a couple lines and asking why it's there if you aren't even giving us context. Everyone and anyone can cherry pick anything and draw any conclusion. Radicals of both side will cherry pick verses to prove their point.
It's just pointless.

"I'm an intellectual even though I never bothered my backside to pick up the book, nor understood the context and I have no respect for other people's decisions."

If you're that interested - the library is open.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts

All the exam results help you need

999

people online now

225,530

students helped last year
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Do you have grade requirements for your sixth form/college?

At least 5 GCSEs at grade 4 (65)
14.54%
At least 5 GCSEs at grade 5 (69)
15.44%
At least 5 GCSEs at grade 6 (84)
18.79%
Higher than 5 GCSEs at grade 6 (180)
40.27%
Pass in English and Maths GCSE (21)
4.7%
No particular grades needed (28)
6.26%

Watched Threads

View All