For all those who say that Brexit was "anti-establishment"

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Juan Perón
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https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...cked-democracy
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Quady
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What has the link and the thread title got to do with one another?
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nulli tertius
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The Guardian article is paranoid nonsense. Finding people likely to vote for something or someone and then persuading them to do so doesn't subvert democracy. It is democracy.

What was wrong with the Referendum campaign was the lies. Those lies were not one-sided but Leave won and so its lies were more significant than Remain's lies. There is no doubt that the lies in the Referendum campaign were worse than any that had been seen in any 20th-21st century election. The media did not call out those lies because the press handed over its pages to partisan columnists and critical reporting went on holiday.
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Voi
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Brexit happened because brits are secretly racist... nowt more to it than that im afraid

sure they might talk to non-whites but secretly they dislike them - wouldn't employ them unless they had to by law

all this complicated arguments as to why we voted leave is really just nonsense

reality of the matter
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_Fergo
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
The Guardian article is paranoid nonsense. Finding people likely to vote for something or someone and then persuading them to do so doesn't subvert democracy. It is democracy.

What was wrong with the Referendum campaign was the lies. Those lies were not one-sided but Leave won and so its lies were more significant than Remain's lies. There is no doubt that the lies in the Referendum campaign were worse than any that had been seen in any 20th-21st century election. The media did not call out those lies because the press handed over its pages to partisan columnists and critical reporting went on holiday.
When you use populism and lies to gain votes from people who don't actually spend time to evaluate their choices, democracy loses all its meaning.

I'd agree with those who wouldn't call it democracy in substantive terms.

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nulli tertius
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(Original post by _Fergo)
When you use populism and lies to gain votes from people who don't actually spend time to evaluate their choices, democracy loses all its meaning.

I'd agree with those who wouldn't call it democracy in substantive terms.
Democracy requires nothing more of a voter than a vote. It doesn't require attention from a voter and it doesn't require reasons from a voter. If you don't accept that, then you don't believe in democracy.

Democracy does require more of a candidate. What it requires is that the candidate/advocate believes what he is saying to the electorate. It doesn't have to be true and no-one else has to believe it but democracy is corrupted when the candidate doesn't believe what he is asserting.
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the bear
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
The Guardian article is paranoid nonsense. Finding people likely to vote for something or someone and then persuading them to do so doesn't subvert democracy. It is democracy.

What was wrong with the Referendum campaign was the lies. Those lies were not one-sided but Leave won and so its lies were more significant than Remain's lies. There is no doubt that the lies in the Referendum campaign were worse than any that had been seen in any 20th-21st century election. The media did not call out those lies because the press handed over its pages to partisan columnists and critical reporting went on holiday.
the Guardian are reduced to begging for donations on their website to enable them to continue their weird mind-games...

https://contribute.theguardian.com/uk
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_Fergo
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Democracy requires nothing more of a voter than a vote. It doesn't require attention from a voter and it doesn't require reasons from a voter. If you don't accept that, then you don't believe in democracy.

Democracy does require more of a candidate. What it requires is that the candidate/advocate believes what he is saying to the electorate. It doesn't have to be true and no-one else has to believe it but democracy is corrupted when the candidate doesn't believe what he is asserting.
Oh I don't believe in democracy.

But you're saying the same thing as me in different words, for I said substantively rather than technically (i.e the population being able to vote). Since its inception, the very promise of democracy was that the vote was informed. Without that, the vote is both meaningless and dangerous.

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Midlander
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The thought of Bullingdon Boris being a people's champion has a lot left to be desired. Same for Dulwich old boy Farage.


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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Midlander)
The thought of Bullingdon Boris being a people's champion has a lot left to be desired. Same for Dulwich old boy Farage.
What about Old Novaportian Corbyn minimus of Yew Tree Manor?
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