Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Thoughts on Piers Morgan asking whether he could identify as an elephant Watch

Announcements
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by E102)
    Sex is your male or female genitals, gender is a social construct there are many genders
    Such as?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I don't think that's what people are outraged about. If a male person wants to wear lipstick, makeup and dresses, call himself Jane and have (self-funded) surgery to look like a woman then that's perfectly fine. I'll think it's a bit weird but it's his choice at the end of the day, and nobody else's business. Even if he decides to live life in the forest as an elephant, that's also up to him.

    Where it becomes an issue is when people start expecting special treatment for it. For example recently, a male person who was in prison for committing rape decided that he identified as a woman and demanded to be transferred to a female prison, a decision which was upheld. This defeats the purpose of having sex-segregated prisons in the first place. The same applies to segregated public toilets, changing rooms, sports competitions etc.

    It's one thing to live out your private life in your own way, and quite another thing to just be able to pick and choose which set of rules apply to you.
    There will always be people who try to abuse systems set up to help people, it doesn't mean that system shouldn't exist, just that it should be regulated.

    I am referring to the hateful comments I see on the internet (of which there are many), outrage and ridiculing of people who are transgender or gender fluid etc, for no other reason than these people live their lives in a way which doesn't align with other peoples' black and white view of the world. You don't need to understand why someone feels they way they feel or does the things they do to be able to show them respect and treat them with kindness.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Granted.

    Some questions for you:

    (1) Where people come up with unique gender designations for themselves, is it actually to their benefit that society play along? If they're truly ill, is it best for them that everyone should collude in the thoughts that result from their illness?

    (2) Is it to the benefit of other people with the same problem that the above should happen?

    (3) Regardless of the above, should everyone be expected to play along with every tumblrite's special designation for their own identities on the basis that some percentage of them will have an actual illness (which should be treated anyway)?
    I don't give a damn about tumblr and I am not qualified to speculate on what is best for transgender people. I advocate deference to science and medicine. I don't understand transgenderism, I can't relate to it, and I don't pretend to. What I take issue with is people channelling their own lack of understanding into scorn, derision, and dismissal of the experiences of others. It amounts to nothing more than the bullying of one of the most marginalised demographics in the world right now.


    (Original post by l'etranger)
    The internet mocks transgerism because the transgender movement acts like a bunch of second rate fascists whereby even questioning the scientific validity of the concept of a transgender is seen as morally evil. What adds insult to injury is that transgenderism implies there is such a thing as a male and a female brain which is totally at odds with one of the underlying principles of feminism. The left is tearing itself apart in its intellectual bankruptcy and lashes out in the most wild and hysterical manner, as you are doing here because it is so insecure of itself.

    Unqualified individuals who seek to comment on the 'scientific validity' of transgenderism should be rightly told to shut the **** up. Note that those who throw scorn at transgender people universally fall under the category of 'unqualified individuals'. I'm not a sociologist, gender theorist, or doctor. But I do know that gender dysphoria exists, and that sexual reassignment is the most effective treatment available right now. Gender dysphoria is apolitical; your hysterical aversion to anything perceived as 'left wing' or 'feminist' is not an excuse to belittle and ridicule people already undergoing intense mental hardship.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Unqualified individuals who seek to comment on the 'scientific validity' of transgenderism should be rightly told to shut the **** up. Note that those who throw scorn at transgender people universally fall under the category of 'unqualified individuals'. I'm not a sociologist, gender theorist, or doctor. But I do know that gender dysphoria exists, and that sexual reassignment is the most effective treatment available right now. Gender dysphoria is apolitical; your hysterical aversion to anything perceived as 'left wing' or 'feminist' is not an excuse to belittle and ridicule people already undergoing intense mental hardship.
    Which university offers a degree in transgenderism?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by l'etranger)
    Which university offers a degree in transgenderism?
    ****ing incredible.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    ****ing incredible.
    If you're going to make ridiculous arguments from authority I will treat you as an object to be mocked.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrIso)
    Such as?
    I dont know genderfluid, non binary, if you're really that bothered why don't you go study gender studies 🙄
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    I don't give a damn about tumblr and I am not qualified to speculate on what is best for transgender people. I advocate deference to science and medicine. I don't understand transgenderism, I can't relate to it, and I don't pretend to. What I take issue with is people channelling their own lack of understanding into scorn, derision, and dismissal of the experiences of others. It amounts to nothing more than the bullying of one of the most marginalised demographics in the world right now.
    Alright, so you've no idea what you're talking about, and yet you're completely and vehemently confident that everyone who makes up a new definition of gender for themselves has a genuine illness? And you've no clue what the best treatment is, but (I take it from your 'dismissal of the experiences' comment) you're fully confident that playing along with whatever new identity someone has made up is the way to go?

    Okay.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Alright, so you've no idea what you're talking about, and yet you're completely and vehemently confident that everyone who makes up a new definition of gender for themselves has a genuine illness? And you've no clue what the best treatment is, but (I take it from your 'dismissal of the experiences' comment) you're fully confident that playing along with whatever new identity someone has made up is the way to go?

    Okay.
    Ok, since you've somehow managed to interpret 'I don't give a damn about tumblr and I defer to medical science' as 'I defer to tumblr', I'm going to make it so simple that even you can understand: Gender dysphoria exists. It is unpleasant. Let's not go out of our way to bully those who suffer from it.


    (Original post by l'etranger)
    If you're going to make ridiculous arguments from authority I will treat you as an object to be mocked.
    Can you explain what is so ridiculous about an argument from authority?
    • Section Leader
    Online

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    I don't give a damn about tumblr and I am not qualified to speculate on what is best for transgender people. I advocate deference to science and medicine. I don't understand transgenderism, I can't relate to it, and I don't pretend to. What I take issue with is people channelling their own lack of understanding into scorn, derision, and dismissal of the experiences of others. It amounts to nothing more than the bullying of one of the most marginalised demographics in the world right now.

    Unqualified individuals who seek to comment on the 'scientific validity' of transgenderism should be rightly told to shut the **** up. Note that those who throw scorn at transgender people universally fall under the category of 'unqualified individuals'. I'm not a sociologist, gender theorist, or doctor. But I do know that gender dysphoria exists, and that sexual reassignment is the most effective treatment available right now. Gender dysphoria is apolitical; your hysterical aversion to anything perceived as 'left wing' or 'feminist' is not an excuse to belittle and ridicule people already undergoing intense mental hardship.
    PRSOM.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by E102)
    He mocked them on television degraded them and made them feel singled out yet again, after everything they have campaigned for - piers cannot identify as an elephant and certainly not a black woman as guess what he isn't black for gods sake! He is taking the piss and it is horrible!
    And they aren't men or women, they're what they were born with whether you like it or not.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)

    Can you explain what is so ridiculous about an argument from authority?
    It's as ridiculous as someone saying ''God said so in the Bible therefore I'm right.''
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    identifying as non-binary is completely rational and seems to have a lot of scientific traction due to various factors such as there being more than two sexes: male, female and then a wide range of intersex conditions. society don't hear about intersex people much because they often have, so called, correction surgery at birth to get them within the sex binary; a procedure that can really mess with these kids mental health. as a society, we are so obsessed with fitting identities into binaries that sometimes fail to notice that science is backing up the non-binary argument. here's how.

    so from what i've picked up most have agreed that potentially someone's gender identity and sex can not align, thus are accepting gender and sex are different. although within that they are skeptical of non-binary factors in the gender section of that equation. now if you consider that intersex conditions occur in roughly 1 in 2000 births; to put that into perspective the UNICEF estimates that an average of 353,000 babies is born every day around the world. that is about 176 babies born each day with intersex conditions. now consider that that figure only takes into account obvious intersex conditions. now apply those figures to being non-binary, because being intersex is just the more physical and obvious equivalent of being non-binary.

    sex is not binary, sexuality is not binary, thus there is no real logic in insisting that gender is binary.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by l'etranger)
    It's as ridiculous as someone saying ''God said so in the Bible therefore I'm right.''
    Alright, it's been 10 minutes since you've made this post so I'm going to assume you've had time to reflect on how stupid it is. We all make mistakes, and I'm a firm believer in second chances, so how's this: you delete the above post, then I'll delete this post, and we can pretend like it never happened and pray that not too many people saw it.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Alright, it's been 10 minutes since you've made this post so I'm going to assume you've had time to reflect on how stupid it is. We all make mistakes, and I'm a firm believer in second chances, so how's this: you delete the above post, then I'll delete this post, and we can pretend like it never happened and pray that not too many people saw it.
    I completely stand my post and your smug hysterics are not going to work with me.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by l'etranger)
    I completely stand my post and your smug hysterics are not going to work with me.
    You literally said that deferring to the opinions of medical professionals on a medical matter is the same thing as appealing to the Bible. And you stand by it.

    Well, that's enough TSR for today.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    You literally said that deferring to the opinions of medical professionals on a medical matter is the same thing as appealing to the Bible. And you stand by it.

    Well, that's enough TSR for today.
    Just as the Bible may not be the word of God, medical professionals are not infallible.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by squeakysquirrel)
    If you look at the chromosomes of these people one will be male and one will be female. I accept that there are some people who are intersex - I have shared a flat with one such person. This is basic science.
    You got it in one!

    Just like I said above but was shot down - male, female and other :thumbsup:
    • Community Assistant
    • Welcome Squad
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    no wonder there is always an elephant in the room whenever he's on
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Harold Saxon)
    And they aren't men or women, they're what they were born with whether you like it or not.
    Exactly!
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Break up or unrequited love?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.