Unfair student loans based of parents income.

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Max12121
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Im going to university this year and to be concise im getting a very low loan around 5k. Considering my accommodation (mid range) is around £5,600 it is very low.

I dont understand why loans are based of parents income as i would not expect my parents to shell out thousands of pounds to keep me going in uni.I have a friends who's living costs are like £4000 a year but they get a £9000 loan because their parents are low earners.How is this fair.

Is it fair that those who have parents with a good income are being given much less of a loan even if the parents are not contributing to uni costs.

Should the loans be based off living costs instead of parental income?
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fxlloutboyy
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The loans should be based on parental income as a higher income means they have the ability to provide financial support. A family of low income can definitely not provide much, if any, support. If I had a family income where I didn't quality for the full loan I would expect them to contribute.

If it was based off living costs then everyone would choose the highest rent, claim they have high expenditures and there'd be no way to monitor the amount of loan given as it'd mostly be fraudulent
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How about people who's parents are earning a high amount so they don't qualify for a loan?
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Aztec Chic
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I suppose I kinda get you. My friends all of which live with both parents so have two sets of income, loans ranged from about 3k to 7k whereas mine is much higher living with one parent. I also think I got slightly more because I will be studying in London. I think it's just a case of who is more likely to be in a position to be able to provide than anything. I understand it's probably frustrating whereby because your parents earn a certain amount it doesn't mean they can afford the kinda of extra fees. On the other hand I don't think it'd be fair if we all got the same amount
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Max12121
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(Original post by fxlloutboyy)
The loans should be based on parental income as a higher income means they have the ability to provide financial support. A family of low income can definitely not provide much, if any, support. If I had a family income where I didn't quality for the full loan I would expect them to contribute.

If it was based off living costs then everyone would choose the highest rent, claim they have high expenditures and there'd be no way to monitor the amount of loan given as it'd mostly be fraudulent
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Legally though parents are no longer responsible for you at 18 and could say that they are not supporting you at all.

I see your point on how loans based of rent will cause issues but do you think its fair that i will be a lot worse off due to my parents higher income (even though there not contributing to my costs) whereas my friend who is receiving a £9000 loan will live in somewhat "luxury" with all that money just because his parents are on a low income

It could be looked at from the point of view that high earners and consequently the students are being punished just because their parents earn more.
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Max12121
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(Original post by Aztec Chic)
I suppose I kinda get you. My friends all of which live with both parents so have two sets of income ranged from about 3k to 7k whereas I am much higher living with one parent. I think it's just a case of who is more likely to be in a position to be able to provide than anything. I understand it's probably frustrating whereby because your parents earn a certain amount it doesn't mean they can afford the kinda of extra fees. On the other hand I don't think it'd be fair if we all got the same amount
Yeah i see where your coming from. Its infuriating in my case however knowing that my parents income has no effect on how much they can support me because i will be on my own.It is presumed that just because my parents earn a bit more they will support me
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fxlloutboyy
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What loan are you actually getting?

I think you'd be right if the income brackets were low but they're not. You still get nearly £4'000 if the income is £60,000 - these people would easily be able to afford to give financial support.

I understand some families don't provide support to their children, hence the special circumstances ie being assessed as estranged. SFE can't provide a high loan to everyone who says they aren't getting support as, again, many causes would be fraudulent as there's no way to prove it

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Aztec Chic
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Is it the case where you will just be able to get by with the support of your parents if they are supporting you and maybe a job or will you genuinely not be able to afford to go?
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Max12121
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(Original post by fxlloutboyy)
What loan are you actually getting?

I think you'd be right if the income brackets were low but they're not. You still get nearly £4'000 if the income is £60,000 - these people would easily be able to afford to give financial support.

I understand some families don't provide support to their children, hence the special circumstances ie being assessed as estranged. SFE can't provide a high loan to everyone who says they aren't getting support as, again, many causes would be fraudulent as there's no way to prove it

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Im talking about the Maintenance loan (from student finance Wales).
I see where your coming from however i think its wrong that the parents are expected to financially support you through 4 years of Uni.And just because a family income is around £50,000 (which is a fair bit) outgoings are just as expensive as well as other siblings or family members they have to support.
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Fujoshi
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(Original post by Max12121)
Legally though parents are no longer responsible for you at 18 and could say that they are not supporting you at all.

I see your point on how loans based of rent will cause issues but do you think its fair that i will be a lot worse off due to my parents higher income (even though there not contributing to my costs) whereas my friend who is receiving a £9000 loan will live in somewhat "luxury" with all that money just because his parents are on a low income

It could be looked at from the point of view that high earners and consequently the students are being punished just because their parents earn more.
I think whether you have siblings (especially if they're also at uni) and any major debts your parents have should be taken into account since such things will drastically impact how much they can garnish your loan by. Perhaps a section where you/your parents can specify how much they can support you by would work best, rather than just basing it off rent costs or parent income alone?

As it is just chalk it down to experience - you'll be living closer to how your low income friend has been living, while they're be living closer to how you're used to living. Gives people the chance to get a taste of how 'the other half' live. ( I'd also suggest learning how to budget well and plan meals etc to save what money you can).
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Max12121
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(Original post by Aztec Chic)
Is it the case where you will just be able to get by with the support of your parents if they are supporting you and maybe a job or will you genuinely not be able to afford to go?
Well i will be able to afford to go.I have enough savings from working over the past through years. I will also have to find some part time work in uni.

I think its more of a case that its annoying that i will have to be dipping and using large amounts of my hard earned savings and working lots(i have no problem with working and realise many do).I will also end up paying more money back than my friend who receives the £9000 loan and doesn't have to get a job or dip into any savings.
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Max12121
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(Original post by Fujoshi)
I think whether you have siblings (especially if they're also at uni) and any major debts your parents have should be taken into account since such things will drastically impact how much they can garnish your loan by. Perhaps a section where you/your parents can specify how much they can support you by would work best, rather than just basing it off rent costs or parent income alone?

As it is just chalk it down to experience - you'll be living closer to how your low income friend has been living, while they're be living closer to how you're used to living. Gives people the chance to get a taste of how 'the other half' live. ( I'd also suggest learning how to budget well and plan meals etc to save what money you can).
Yeah i agree to an extent. Mabey a system based off living costs could be exploited and it should be based of more variables than primarily parental income.

And yes living with less money can give some good life lessons.However doesn't change the fact that i am "mad" that i have to use all my hard earned savings and ultimately pay back more to the loan company.
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Aztec Chic
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(Original post by Max12121)
Well i will be able to afford to go.I have enough savings from working over the past through years. I will also have to find some part time work in uni.

I think its more of a case that its annoying that i will have to be dipping and using large amounts of my hard earned savings and working lots(i have no problem with working and realise many do).I will also end up paying more money back than my friend who receives the £9000 loan and doesn't have to get a job or dip into any savings.
Yeah I get you as I am that friend who will be 'living in luxury.' I can only imagine how annoying it is. If it's any consolation we will have more debt. What do you mean you will end up paying more back? Are you taking out an additional loan?
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Like_A_G6
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(Original post by fxlloutboyy)
The loans should be based on parental income as a higher income means they have the ability to provide financial support. A family of low income can definitely not provide much, if any, support. If I had a family income where I didn't quality for the full loan I would expect them to contribute.

If it was based off living costs then everyone would choose the highest rent, claim they have high expenditures and there'd be no way to monitor the amount of loan given as it'd mostly be fraudulent
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erm no. When I went to university, both my parents were working and I was ineligible for any means tested support. Their combined salary was good, but not the high five figure/six figure income that a lot of people from lower income families imagine the rest of the country earn. They had a mortgage to pay, had to save for retirement, and both me and my sister were starting university. To say they'd have the means to fund £5000 per year per child just in accommodation whilst balancing other commitments is just stupid. Both me and my sister had to study for our degree whilst relying on jobs/internships to fund the living costs. No doubt, this did put added strain on our lives for four years; added strain that students who were from both lower and higher income families did not experience or have to put up with.

I'm not saying lower income families should have their loans reduced, but more that middle income families should have what's available to them increased. I don't know why students from lower income families are so against this principle. It doesn't affect them in any way, it would just make the lives of people on slightly higher incomes easier and make them feel less short changed (lets not forget that the value of state benefits a person sees decreases the more tax you pay). As students pay back their loan with interest rates around 3%, they don't benefit from taking out the maximum loan available, and it would be irresponsible for them to request such an amount.
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Fujoshi
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(Original post by Max12121)
Yeah i agree to an extent. Mabey a system based off living costs could be exploited and it should be based of more variables than primarily parental income.

And yes living with less money can give some good life lessons.However doesn't change the fact that i am "mad" that i have to use all my hard earned savings and ultimately pay back more to the loan company.
How will you end up paying back more to the loan company if the amount you're borrowing is lower?
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Max12121
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(Original post by Aztec Chic)
Yeah I get you as I am that friend who will be 'living in luxury.' I can only imagine how annoying it is. If it's any consolation we will have more debt. What do you mean you will end up paying more back? Are you taking out an additional loan?
No im not taking out an additional loan.

How the Welsh government does it is that the Max maintenance loan you get is like £5000 ish. You automatically apply for a maintenance grant as well which is like an extension of the Maintenance loan in which you can get up to an additional £4000 that doesn't have to be paid back.The higher your maintenance grant the slightly less maintenance loan you get so if you got the full £4000 grant then you could only get a £4500 maintenance loan.

In my case i will have to pay back the £5000 in full whereas my friend does not have to pay back the £4000(Maintenance extension grant thing) and only has to pay back the £4500 ish he had from a maintenance loan

If that makes sense haha sorry it is a bit
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Max12121
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(Original post by Fujoshi)
How will you end up paying back more to the loan company if the amount you're borrowing is lower?
Check out my above post ive attempted to explain it haha
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Camilli
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UK law will obviously be its own thing, but in the US minors can take steps to declare financial independence if they want to escape strange households and be eligible for certain kinds of benefits. Can you prove that, as far as university is concerned, that you have no parents at all?
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Aztec Chic
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(Original post by Max12121)
No im not taking out an additional loan.

How the Welsh government does it is that the Max maintenance loan you get is like £5000 ish. You automatically apply for a maintenance grant as well which is like an extension of the Maintenance loan in which you can get up to an additional £4000 that doesn't have to be paid back.The higher your maintenance grant the slightly less maintenance loan you get so if you got the full £4000 grant then you could only get a £4500 maintenance loan.

In my case i will have to pay back the £5000 in full whereas my friend does not have to pay back the £4000(Maintenance extension grant thing) and only has to pay back the £4500 ish he had from a maintenance loan

If that makes sense haha sorry it is a bit
Ohhh I see. I understand more why you're annoyed lol. Damn that sucks
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Max12121
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(Original post by Camilli)
UK law will obviously be its own thing, but in the US minors can take steps to declare financial independence if they want to escape strange households and be eligible for certain kinds of benefits. Can you prove that, as far as university is concerned, that you have no parents at all?
I looked at becoming "Financially self dependent" when applying for the loans and apparently i had to be supporting myself for 3 or more years to be able to say that i am self dependent.
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