What the government need to do.

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Moody Communist
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In the light of recent events such as the tragic bombing in Manchester, where I am proud to say I live - along with many other terrorist attacks world wide, it's clear there's something not right.

There are a couple of things which I strongly believe the government should do as soon as parliament re-opens.

The first being the obvious to many people: reduce the amount of foreign immigration by at-least 75%. This reduces the likelihood of extremists from any country and from any religion of causing destruction in our country.

The second thing we need to do is ban travel to any countries within the middle east (to and from) - along with revoking any immigration from these countries. This is not a racist move or xenophobic by any means - it's called protecting your homeland in the best way possible. I know it's not ideal for some people however we as a country need to start focusing on ourselves instead of acting as a hotel for extremists.

There is the whole argument about foreign people, particularly from the middle east immigrating for jobs primarily in the tertiary sector (healthcare, teaching etcetera). People argue that we need these people, and to that I agree at the moment. However, we need to stop risking the safety of our own people by letting in foreigners without doing little background checks.

I feel that the government need to increase the standards of education further to ensure that Britain can be a self-sufficient country with a strong economy. If we educate our own people better, we will not be dependent on immigrants to do certain jobs.

Our government needs to act fast, ban middle-east immigration and enhance background and security checks on foreigners and immigrants along with tourists from all places.

How many more attacks, deaths and injuries will it take to get the clear message into peoples heads. We need to depend on our own, not the foreign economies and societies.

Unfortunately, Islam is seen as a 'terrorist' religion which of course it's not - however we do need to begin taking extra precautions in this day and age; NOT just with Muslims but everybody who enters Britain.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Moody Communist)
In the light of recent events such as the tragic bombing in Manchester, where I am proud to say I live - along with many other terrorist attacks world wide, it's clear there's something not right.

There are a couple of things which I strongly believe the government should do as soon as parliament re-opens.

The first being the obvious to many people: reduce the amount of foreign immigration by at-least 75%. This reduces the likelihood of extremists from any country and from any religion of causing destruction in our country.

The second thing we need to do is ban travel to any countries within the middle east (to and from) - along with revoking any immigration from these countries. This is not a racist move or xenophobic by any means - it's called protecting your homeland in the best way possible. I know it's not ideal for some people however we as a country need to start focusing on ourselves instead of acting as a hotel for extremists.

There is the whole argument about foreign people, particularly from the middle east immigrating for jobs primarily in the tertiary sector (healthcare, teaching etcetera). People argue that we need these people, and to that I agree at the moment. However, we need to stop risking the safety of our own people by letting in foreigners without doing little background checks.

I feel that the government need to increase the standards of education further to ensure that Britain can be a self-sufficient country with a strong economy. If we educate our own people better, we will not be dependent on immigrants to do certain jobs.

Our government needs to act fast, ban middle-east immigration and enhance background and security checks on foreigners and immigrants along with tourists from all places.

How many more attacks, deaths and injuries will it take to get the clear message into peoples heads. We need to depend on our own, not the foreign economies and societies.

Ps if you hadnt noticed commerce is international these days and we cant just live on an island with no contact with anyone of you want to enjoy the lifestyle you currently do.

Unfortunately, Islam is seen as a 'terrorist' religion which of course it's not - however we do need to begin taking extra precautions in this day and age; NOT just with Muslims but everybody who enters Britain.
Except that would have had no effect on the person in question because he was a UK citizen.

It wouldnt stop a terrorist coming in under say a student or holiday visa or being activated because they already live here. Nothing to stop them traveling to a friendly country and coming to the UK that way.

So you could stop anyone coming to the UK because they were foreign.

It would alienate millions of people and let the terrorists win by giving them a disproportionate power over how we live life and that is the whole point of terrorism.

Tragic though the attack was, it still remains true that terrorist attacks in this country are rare and its a mistake to overreact and react in ways which are more likely to harm the UK.
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Moody Communist
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Except that would have had no effect on the person in question because he was a UK citizen.

It wouldnt stop a terrorist coming in under say a student or holiday visa or being activated because they already live here. Nothing to stop them traveling to a friendly country and coming to the UK that way.

So you could stop anyone coming to the UK because they were foreign.

It would alienate millions of people and let the terrorists win by giving them a disproportionate power over how we live life and that is the whole point of terrorism.

Tragic though the attack was, it still remains true that terrorist attacks in this country are rare and its a mistake to overreact and react in ways which are more likely to harm the UK.
Banning foreign immigration stops these kinds of people being born in our country (in reference to your comment about him being UK-born).

Terrorist attacks may be rare, but unless we do things about them then they won't be. Also, we cannot justify the actions at all of this disgusting idiot.

22 people died in this attack caused by somebody of Libyan decent, due to our government failing at it's job at safeguarding and protecting the public. 22 people is 22 people too many. Not ONE person should have been killed in such a disgusting way. Nobody should be leaving their home where they feel safe to never come back. The government does not do enough.

Terrorists will not enjoy us banning their entries - forgive me if I have interpreted what you have said wrong. If we stop immigration from these prone countries they have not won, they have lost. We put ourselves first and we should not have a care in the world whether they think they have won or not.

We have many immigrants and we are a generally proud country. These 'kind' immigrants who I shall refer to them as do a great help in our society and they will not be alienated because we are all British, members of one society - but we should be prepared to not enroll any more people in our society just yet.

Like I stated before, reduce immigration from non-middle-east countries by 75% so not all immigration will be stopped. People should be given FULL background checks and those who are Muslim should be given a four-day maximum tourist stay. This is not enough time for an elaborate terrorist attack to be planned. It's better to attempt to reduce threats than do nothing at all.

It's tragic that these extremists make me label these middle-eastern countries as potential threats, however, there is no safe alternative.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Moody Communist)
Banning foreign immigration stops these kinds of people being born in our country (in reference to your comment about him being UK-born).

Terrorist attacks may be rare, but unless we do things about them then they won't be. Also, we cannot justify the actions at all of this disgusting idiot.

22 people died in this attack caused by somebody of Libyan decent, due to our government failing at it's job at safeguarding and protecting the public. 22 people is 22 people too many. Not ONE person should have been killed in such a disgusting way. Nobody should be leaving their home where they feel safe to never come back. The government does not do enough.

Terrorists will not enjoy us banning their entries - forgive me if I have interpreted what you have said wrong. If we stop immigration from these prone countries they have not won, they have lost. We put ourselves first and we should not have a care in the world whether they think they have won or not.

We have many immigrants and we are a generally proud country. These 'kind' immigrants who I shall refer to them as do a great help in our society and they will not be alienated because we are all British, members of one society - but we should be prepared to not enroll any more people in our society just yet.

Like I stated before, reduce immigration from non-middle-east countries by 75% so not all immigration will be stopped. People should be given FULL background checks and those who are Muslim should be given a four-day maximum tourist stay. This is not enough time for an elaborate terrorist attack to be planned. It's better to attempt to reduce threats than do nothing at all.

It's tragic that these extremists make me label these middle-eastern countries as potential threats, however, there is no safe alternative.
1. It wouldnt stop these sort of people coming to the UK though (notwithstanding you banning aby visitors to the UK and it doesnt stop people here being radicalised (notwithstanding you wnat to deprt all muslims r all brown peope.

2. You talk about attacks being rare, but they show no signs of increasing. Id rather trust the efforts of the security services as is, which have been pretty effective thus far. They will learn from this attack and make it harder, but theres not a lot you can do if someone wants to take a vehicle and crash it into a crowd.

3. Who needs to justify this persons actions?

4. Your next paragraph doesnt make any sense. the security services do a great deal. Only hindsight will tell us what mistakes were made. If you want to spend more money then be prepared to pay more taxes.

5. What you do if you ban 75% (why not 100%?) of foreigners is isolate yourself from the world. A determined adversary can always smuggle themselves across a border. You can also radicalise the disaffected already here.

6. What you want is a total muslim ban, which is what a 4 day visa amounts to.

7. So its all disproportionate measures, xenophobia and isolationism plus letting the terrorists win by giving them power over how we live. Ok.
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Moody Communist
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(Original post by 999tigger)
1. It wouldnt stop these sort of people coming to the UK though (notwithstanding you banning aby visitors to the UK and it doesnt stop people here being radicalised (notwithstanding you wnat to deprt all muslims r all brown peope.

2. You talk about attacks being rare, but they show no signs of increasing. Id rather trust the efforts of the security services as is, which have been pretty effective thus far. They will learn from this attack and make it harder, but theres not a lot you can do if someone wants to take a vehicle and crash it into a crowd.

3. Who needs to justify this persons actions?

4. Your next paragraph doesnt make any sense. the security services do a great deal. Only hindsight will tell us what mistakes were made. If you want to spend more money then be prepared to pay more taxes.

5. What you do if you ban 75% (why not 100%?) of foreigners is isolate yourself from the world. A determined adversary can always smuggle themselves across a border. You can also radicalise the disaffected already here.

6. What you want is a total muslim ban, which is what a 4 day visa amounts to.

7. So its all disproportionate measures, xenophobia and isolationism plus letting the terrorists win by giving them power over how we live. Ok.
Security services HAVE NOT done enough. The attacker has been flagged up to them TWICE and he has still managed to carry out such barbaric acts.

I'm struggling to understand what you're actually saying since most of your paragraphs say the same thing using different words. A 75% ban is reasonable because it still allows people to come across (who are not Muslim or from the middle-east).

I have no idea where you gather that radical attacks are not on the increase. You clearly have your head in the sand. We cannot just stand by and WAIT for the NEXT attack to happen and then just simply say 'we will improve our security services even more and yet again learn from mistakes'.

In response to your top paragraph. I feel that all muslims should be investigated one by one irregardless. Homeland security needs to be seen to.

I have no idea why you seem to think that banning immigration from the middle-east makes terrorists think they've won. I don't even think I can argue against what you've said because your comment is completely stupid. A terrorist isn't a terrorist if he cannot terrorize. Stopping this immigration will REDUCE the threat of terrorism.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Moody Communist)
Security services HAVE NOT done enough. The attacker has been flagged up to them TWICE and he has still managed to carry out such barbaric acts.

I'm struggling to understand what you're actually saying since most of your paragraphs say the same thing using different words. A 75% ban is reasonable because it still allows people to come across (who are not Muslim or from the middle-east).

I have no idea where you gather that radical attacks are not on the increase. You clearly have your head in the sand. We cannot just stand by and WAIT for the NEXT attack to happen and then just simply say 'we will improve our security services even more and yet again learn from mistakes'.

In response to your top paragraph. I feel that all muslims should be investigated one by one irregardless. Homeland security needs to be seen to.

I have no idea why you seem to think that banning immigration from the middle-east makes terrorists think they've won. I don't even think I can argue against what you've said because your comment is completely stupid. A terrorist isn't a terrorist if he cannot terrorize. Stopping this immigration will REDUCE the threat of terrorism.
1. Have they done enough? You don't know how many threats they have averted or what the overall workload plus resources they have. In time there ill be an investigation and they will learn what mistakes were made if any.

2. I think Muslim and xenophobic bans like your are stupid and will be ineffectual. It creates hostility from Muslim countries as well as damages international trade. If you hadn't realises the economy is rather important for a country and trade is a two way thing. Economies these days are interdependent. I highly doubt you are ready for economic consequences of your proposals.

3. Show me where radical attacks are on the increase to levels we cant control? When was the last major bomb attack? Its hilarious you claim I have my head in the sand when you are deluded that just banning 75% of foreigners is going to have a noticeable difference. You would certainly crash the economy and that would have a far bigger impact on peoples lives.

4. You wish to investigate all 4 million Muslims? How often would that work? Every year? Why not have one MI5 agent per Muslim to follow them round everywhere? You believe all Muslims are terrorists?

5. The aim of terrorism is to create terror and let them feel they have control. Your solutions are ineffectual knee jerk extreme reactions penalising millions and will not make us any safer. They think they will have won because we have 4 million citizens under suspicion, we become fearful of foreigners and we are happy to crash our economy. Fortunately no government is going to engage in such stupid and ineffectual suggestions as yours.
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Moody Communist
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(Original post by 999tigger)
1. Have they done enough? You don't know how many threats they have averted or what the overall workload plus resources they have. In time there ill be an investigation and they will learn what mistakes were made if any.

2. I think Muslim and xenophobic bans like your are stupid and will be ineffectual. It creates hostility from Muslim countries as well as damages international trade. If you hadn't realises the economy is rather important for a country and trade is a two way thing. Economies these days are interdependent. I highly doubt you are ready for economic consequences of your proposals.

3. Show me where radical attacks are on the increase to levels we cant control? When was the last major bomb attack? Its hilarious you claim I have my head in the sand when you are deluded that just banning 75% of foreigners is going to have a noticeable difference. You would certainly crash the economy and that would have a far bigger impact on peoples lives.

4. You wish to investigate all 4 million Muslims? How often would that work? Every year? Why not have one MI5 agent per Muslim to follow them round everywhere? You believe all Muslims are terrorists?

5. The aim of terrorism is to create terror and let them feel they have control. Your solutions are ineffectual knee jerk extreme reactions penalising millions and will not make us any safer. They think they will have won because we have 4 million citizens under suspicion, we become fearful of foreigners and we are happy to crash our economy. Fortunately no government is going to engage in such stupid and ineffectual suggestions as yours.
I'll respond to each of your points at once.

1. I agree that many threats have been 'averted' or so you say, however it's clear that not enough has been done. You are not focusing on the fact that the government knew of this man on more than one occasion and failed to act upon the information accordingly. Stop saying that we will learn from mistakes. We don't have time to learn from mistakes, now is the time. We shouldn't be waiting for somebody else to make the moves.

2. The economy will remain stable. First of all, being self sufficient in employment sectors from increasing education standards reduces the NEED for immigration. 25% of tourism is a good idea as it still allows boosting of local economies. Keeping 100% of tourism is a stupid idea. As I stated much earlier, the ban would be temporary to ensure stability. Countries still trade irregardless of tourism.

3. You completely contradict yourself by saying a 75% ban will have no difference and then going on to say it will affect everyone. A 75% ban will bring a higher sense of safety to the people of the country.

4. Investigations of flagged people should be carried out immediately and without warning on all people irregardless of their religion. Secondly, I do believe an investigation into all Muslims is a doable idea. I did not say spy on them so I have no idea where you get the agent idea from. By investigation, I simply mean have a search around their property and look for any signs of radicalism. It would also make sense to actually monitor cyber activity more closely, especially against Muslims.

5. This is all hypothetical, so I don't see why you're telling me about governments listening to me. Banning people will not show that we as a country have a sense of terror, it will show that we care about our loved ones. Children were attacked, and if you feel that it's fine to continue to let these radical ****-heads flock into our country, that's your opinion. Suspending immigration from certain countries and reducing it by 75% does not make us fearful of foreigners. It's called security. I believe my solutions are very effective if correct negotiations between countries take place.
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999tigger
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(Original post by Moody Communist)
I'll respond to each of your points at once.

1. I agree that many threats have been 'averted' or so you say, however it's clear that not enough has been done. You are not focusing on the fact that the government knew of this man on more than one occasion and failed to act upon the information accordingly. Stop saying that we will learn from mistakes. We don't have time to learn from mistakes, now is the time. We shouldn't be waiting for somebody else to make the moves.

2. The economy will remain stable. First of all, being self sufficient in employment sectors from increasing education standards reduces the NEED for immigration. 25% of tourism is a good idea as it still allows boosting of local economies. Keeping 100% of tourism is a stupid idea. As I stated much earlier, the ban would be temporary to ensure stability. Countries still trade irregardless of tourism.

3. You completely contradict yourself by saying a 75% ban will have no difference and then going on to say it will affect everyone. A 75% ban will bring a higher sense of safety to the people of the country.

4. Investigations of flagged people should be carried out immediately and without warning on all people irregardless of their religion. Secondly, I do believe an investigation into all Muslims is a doable idea. I did not say spy on them so I have no idea where you get the agent idea from. By investigation, I simply mean have a search around their property and look for any signs of radicalism. It would also make sense to actually monitor cyber activity more closely, especially against Muslims.

5. This is all hypothetical, so I don't see why you're telling me about governments listening to me. Banning people will not show that we as a country have a sense of terror, it will show that we care about our loved ones. Children were attacked, and if you feel that it's fine to continue to let these radical ****-heads flock into our country, that's your opinion. Suspending immigration from certain countries and reducing it by 75% does not make us fearful of foreigners. It's called security. I believe my solutions are very effective if correct negotiations between countries take place.
1. You live in a fantasy if you think any system is perfect. Are you going to make available the funding and manpower needed? How much are you willing to pay in taxes? Ofc we have time to learn from mistakes or would you rather we didn't learn anything?

2. The economy would not remain stable if we just stopped 75% of immigration. The NHS would be in chaos, Tourism and hospitality would also be in chaos and tens of thousands would lose their jobs. there are over 3 million people dependent on tourism and its worth c £23 billion. That is foreign currency we cant afford to lose. Sure theyd be happy to lose their jobs just for your plan. Good way to crash the economy for everyone else.

3. A 75% ban will make very little difference on security because it wont affect people who illegally enter or those who are here and can be radicalised. A 75% ban will make a significant difference to UK citizens seeking to travel abroad, UK international relations and the economy.

4. How many people do you think you will need to conduct 4 million people? Plus monitor their internet? Will you be legislating to do so and you expect parliament to go along? why do you think one interview is enough/ You think all Muslims are happily going to let you search their properties? that's an awful lot of warrants and policemen. Absolutely zero chance of this being allowed. Why not intern them just like they did in the war. That worked well.

5. Its called an overreaction and knee jerk reactions. ISIS would absolutely love the fact that you were treating all Muslims as potential terrorist and had tanked the economy. It would be a massive propaganda coup to other Muslim countries about ISIS power and how Muslims were mistreated. Exactly what terrorists want. An utter disaster.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Moody Communist)
The first being the obvious to many people: reduce the amount of foreign immigration by at-least 75%. This reduces the likelihood of extremists from any country and from any religion of causing destruction in our country.
The recent terrorists attacks that have happened in the UK were committed by UK nationals, not immigrants. How would reducing foreign immigration make any difference?

Secondly, why 75%? If immigration did fuel terrorism in the UK then why not 100%? This seems like a number you've plucked out of thin air.


(Original post by Moody Communist)
The second thing we need to do is ban travel to any countries within the middle east (to and from) - along with revoking any immigration from these countries. This is not a racist move or xenophobic by any means - it's called protecting your homeland in the best way possible. I know it's not ideal for some people however we as a country need to start focusing on ourselves instead of acting as a hotel for extremists.

As above - how would this make any difference?
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