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Corbyn links this attack to war abroad watch

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    I think this is gonna completely end Jeremy Corbyn tbh. Firstly it will rightly be seen as cowardly and weak secondly it is not really correct. We don't know the motive of the attackers but 1/they attacked children 2/these attack have taken place all around europe in France Germany Belgium. Countries that weren't involved in foreign wars. Also we should not base our foreign policy on not wanting to upset people, British people should back our troops. The actual reality is that we have an enemy in our country who are more loyal to their faith than to this country. This won't go down well I think and we are heading for one of the worst performances a Labour government has ever had.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40053427
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    I think this is gonna completely end Jeremy Corbyn tbh. Firstly it will rightly be seen as cowardly and weak secondly it is not really correct. We don't know the motive of the attackers but 1/they attacked children 2/these attack have taken place all around europe in France Germany Belgium. Countries that weren't involved in foreign wars. Also we should not base our foreign policy on not wanting to upset people, British people should back our troops. The actual reality is that we have an enemy in our country who are more loyal to their faith than to this country. This won't go down well I think and we are heading for one of the worst performances a Labour government has ever had.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40053427
    He's saying there's "links", not that there's a direct causation for terror attacks as a result of wars abroad. And that's completely true. The West is likely to suffer from far fewer attacks because terrorists won't feel as resentful.

    ""many experts... have pointed to the connections between wars our government has supported or fought in other countries and terrorism here at home""

    Sorry, but facts don't care about your feelings. I know your right wing echo chambers have been screaming that it's all Islam but unfortunately reality is more complex.


    Once again, anti-Corbynites are using cheap straw mans to defame him. Sorry, but try to come up with an argument without fallacies. It's people like you who are the reason for why he's climbing the polls with cheap lies and deception.

    "The actual reality is that we have an enemy in our country who are more loyal to their faith than to this country"

    You, my friend, are deluded.
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    (Original post by lolfloplol)
    He's saying there's "links", not that there's a direct causation for terror attacks as a result of wars abroad. And that's completely true. The West is likely to suffer from far fewer attacks because terrorists won't feel as resentful.

    ""many experts... have pointed to the connections between wars our government has supported or fought in other countries and terrorism here at home""

    Sorry, but facts don't care about your feelings. I know your right wing echo chambers have been screaming that it's all Islam but unfortunately reality is more complex.


    Once again, anti-Corbynites are using cheap straw mans to defame him. Sorry, but try to come up with an argument without fallacies. It's people like you who are the reason for why he's climbing the polls with cheap lies and deception.

    "The actual reality is that we have an enemy in our country who are more loyal to their faith than to this country"

    You, my friend, are deluded.
    I'm not necessarily disagreeing in the sense that yes obviously it increases terror but not necessarily in this instance. Also I am saying it won't play well with the general public because it will be seen as weak. Also it shows an interesting dichotomy that we now have to consider our 'minorities' when doing something overseas which we wouldn't have done maybe sixty years ago.
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    He's right is he not? The reason why we are a target for terrorists is because of our involvement in the conflict in the middle east.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    I'm not necessarily disagreeing in the sense that yes obviously it increases terror but not necessarily in this instance. Also I am saying it won't play well with the general public because it will be seen as weak. Also it shows an interesting dichotomy that we now have to consider our 'minorities' when doing something overseas which we wouldn't have done maybe sixty years ago.
    He's of libyan origin, would you not say NATO involvement in Libya is in part something that could have played a role? Seems more likely than moderate Islam. Also - When you say belgium, france germany dont do anything thats just plain wrong, all of them are part of NATO that have done their part in intervention.

    It'll be seen as weak because of twisted tabloids. Anyone with a brain wont see it as weakness, rather that its a a sign of strength that unlike internet right wingers, Corbyn is looking at the bigger issues. Like it or not, facts dont care about feelings. Corbyn could if he wants stand up and say so Le Pen style speech or he can tell us the reality. And he's not going to lose votes for it.

    The period where you had your chance to smear corbyn is past. The public can see past the lies of the media.
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    Vote Labour this June.
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    Of course he would use this to push his whinging narrative...
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    (Original post by lolfloplol)
    He's of libyan origin, would you not say NATO involvement in Libya is in part something that could have played a role? Seems more likely than moderate Islam. Also - When you say belgium, france germany dont do anything thats just plain wrong, all of them are part of NATO that have done their part in intervention.

    It'll be seen as weak because of twisted tabloids. Anyone with a brain wont see it as weakness, rather that its a a sign of strength that unlike internet right wingers, Corbyn is looking at the bigger issues. Like it or not, facts dont care about feelings. Corbyn could if he wants stand up and say so Le Pen style speech or he can tell us the reality. And he's not going to lose votes for it.

    The period where you had your chance to smear corbyn is past. The public can see past the lies of the media.
    Yes but his family were fleeing Gadafi which we 'helped' to get rid of. Tbh I wasn't really thinking of Libya as I forgot we were involved with them. With 7/7 they actually said it was a result of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and 9/11 was for US support of Israel. However most of the recent attacks in Europe are more just a vague attack on the west and the non believers. Maybe the people who helped build the bomb were gadafi sympathisers I hadn't thought of it like that.
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    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    Yes but his family were fleeing Gadafi which we 'helped' to get rid of. Tbh I wasn't really thinking of Libya as I forgot we were involved with them. With 7/7 they actually said it was a result of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and 9/11 was for US support of Israel. However most of the recent attacks in Europe are more just a vague attack on the west and the non believers. Maybe the people who helped build the bomb were gadafi sympathisers I hadn't thought of it like that.
    Terrorists are irrational people. All he sees is non believers killing believers, that's what ISIS says too. Watch some ISIS propaganda videos trust me you will see what I mean.

    This is my point though. Ultimately if we are to think long term change we're going to have to review foreign policy too. And the most obvious start to that is to a) differentiate between radial and moderate Islam and b) bring about foreign policy change. Neither of which you seem to really fathom.
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    This week I was thinking about voting Labour, then Corbyn spoke. :facepalm2:

    (Original post by lalalalatyr)
    He's right is he not? The reason why we are a target for terrorists is because of our involvement in the conflict in the middle east.
    No, he isn't right. Islamic terrorism existed before any Western involvement in the Middle East. And neither France nor Germany were involved in the Iraq War and yet both countries have been victims of brutal attacks in the last couple of years.
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    He's got my vote
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    The terrorists want to destroy our way of life - what we stand for, our freedoms and liberties. They are entirely independent of the government of the time's foreign policy. The link is simply incorrect. We'll still be dressing in bikinis and allowing people to have gay sex and letting women drive, Syria or no Syria. This is what the terrorists wish to destroy.

    Corbyn is being incredibly crass and unthinking with this 'announcement'. I believe he will be severely criticised for it, rightly so.
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    He is absolutely correct.

    Libya is a stunning example. We went in there, bombed it , overthrew Geddafi, and allowed absolute political chaos and takfiri, millitant, terrorist groups to emerge, making it a haven for Alqaeda and ISIS [Daesh]. They produce vast terrorist links, training and indoctrination and brainwashing and a hub for further growth of their vicious ideology.

    I could name country after country we have gone to 'give' democracy to.
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    (Original post by Reality Check)
    The terrorists want to destroy our way of life - what we stand for, our freedoms and liberties. They are entirely independent of the government of the time's foreign policy. The link is simply incorrect. We'll still be dressing in bikinis and allowing people to have gay sex and letting women drive, Syria or no Syria. This is what the terrorists wish to destroy.

    Corbyn is being incredibly crass and unthinking with this 'announcement'. I believe he will be severely criticised for it, rightly so.
    But he is right.

    If we go and destabilized countries, like Libya for example, allowing terrorist groups to take advantage of a power vacuum, and only plan to overthrow governments, but never clean up after, such groups will grow, expand and widen their influence online and by other means. They will have a power base, recruit, brainwash, and be behind terrorist attacks.

    Nothing justifies a terrorist from committing an act, but we have to understand events are interconnected.
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    IS wouldn't even exist without the Iraqi war, so yes he is right.

    (Original post by karl pilkington)
    British people should back our troops. The actual reality is that we have an enemy in our country who are more loyal to their faith than to this country.
    In what world does sending troops into pointless wars, sending some to their deaths, 'back[ing] our troops'?

    How does bombing Syrians tackle the "enemy in our country"? Can you not envision how that might perhaps actually make things worse?

    (Original post by Snufkin)
    No, he isn't right. Islamic terrorism existed before any Western involvement in the Middle East. And neither France nor Germany were involved in the Iraq War and yet both countries have been victims of brutal attacks in the last couple of years.
    Before any western involvement in the middle east? Really?
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    (Original post by Tawheed)
    He is absolutely correct.

    Libya is a stunning example. We went in there, bombed it , overthrew Geddafi, and allowed absolute political chaos and takfiri, millitant, terrorist groups to emerge, making it a haven for Alqaeda and ISIS [Daesh]. They produce vast terrorist links, training and indoctrination and brainwashing and a hub for further growth of their vicious ideology.

    I could name country after country we have gone to 'give' democracy to.
    Not to mention the elephant in the room- Iraq
    I'm not a political person but I'm so happy to see that the Labour Party is moving away from the Blairite policies which helped cause this problem.
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    (Original post by Snufkin)

    No, he isn't right. Islamic terrorism existed before any Western involvement in the Middle East. And neither France nor Germany were involved in the Iraq War and yet both countries have been victims of brutal attacks in the last couple of years.
    You do not have to be involved in a war to feel the effects of it. What wars have done are overthrown leaders of the respective countries, leaving an enormous power vacuum often filled with terrorists - or allowed them to grow in power. These groups then widen their influence, their recruitment, influencing and brainwashing people from all over the world , whether or not the people from those countries took part in the war or not.


    "Islamist Terrorism" maybe did exist before, no-one is denying that, but overthrowing leaders of countries, bombing it to smithereens and allowing terrorist groups to take advantage of the power vacuum certainly has not helped.
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    Unfortunately, a man as brave and honest as Corbyn is going to be met with vicious animosity from the media, who are bought and sold with certain vested interests.

    The truth has left him no friend.
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    Just had a look at Theresa May's voting record:

    1. Not only did she vote against the claim that there was no sufficient evidence given to launch a war in Iraq/chemical WMDS

    she also:

    2. Voted for the Iraq War.

    This enabled the rise of ISIS [DAESH] who originally were 'alqaeda in Iraq'. She supported both the Libiya strikes [which gave way to takfiri terrorist groups there too and a hub for terrorism outreach, education and growth] and God knows what would have happened if she had her way on Syria [and she also voted for the strikes].
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    1) Radical Islam is of course to blame. These terrorists are radical Muslims and follow an extreme and in my view false interpretation of Islam.
    2) But why has it spread so rapidly in the Middle East? Partly because of Western foreign policy. We overthrew stable dictatorships in Iraq, Libya and we are actively seeking to do it in Syria.
    3) This led to political instability in these regions which has spread across the Middle East and the Islamic world.
    4) This political instability has led to severe economic decline and chaos.
    5) This has allowed radical Islamic terror groups to flourish.

    You don't see terror groups forming in the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain. Why? Because these countries haven't been affected by this. Saudi Arabia and Iran a different issue because the governments there actively promote terrorism and fund it.
 
 
 

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