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a levels:mickey mouse A grades vs proper subject B grades watch

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    I don't think there's any such thing as a mickey-mouse subject. Anything studied in detail reveals there is much more to it than would first appear.

    Take for example the much maligned "Golf Course Management" If GCM is merely a matter of making sure the grass gets cut then it'd surely not be worthy of more than a weeks course, let alone a 3 year degree.

    But is it?

    Imagine being a golf course manager and what that might entail. Think you could run St.Andrews for example?
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    Music is definitely NOT a mickey mouse subject! it requires different skills compared to something like chemistry, maths, etc. but it still requires skills. in our syllabus, we needed to write a 1500 word comparasion between 2-3 recordings of the same piece of music, hve a 2 and 1/2 hr exam and perform a 10 min recital infrnt of a complete strnger! scary, non?
    for the record, i did music, maths, english lit, chemistry and general studies for my a-levels this yr...NONE of which were mickey-mouse subjects. it's so annoying to hear ppl say tht jst because music is usually classed as an extra-curricular activity, its EASY to do an a-level in that subject!?! how come no-one's accused PE of being an easy subject thn?? :mad:
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    I don't like that term Mickey mouse subject because all A-levels are hard.
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    (Original post by ickleangel)
    Music is definitely NOT a mickey mouse subject! it requires different skills compared to something like chemistry, maths, etc. but it still requires skills. in our syllabus, we needed to write a 1500 word comparasion between 2-3 recordings of the same piece of music, hve a 2 and 1/2 hr exam and perform a 10 min recital infrnt of a complete strnger! scary, non?
    for the record, i did music, maths, english lit, chemistry and general studies for my a-levels this yr...NONE of which were mickey-mouse subjects. it's so annoying to hear ppl say tht jst because music is usually classed as an extra-curricular activity, its EASY to do an a-level in that subject!?! how come no-one's accused PE of being an easy subject thn?? :mad:
    When someone suggests that a subject is "Mickey Mouse" what they're really saying is that it's so easy that anyone could do it.

    So, Mozart, Bach, Strauss et al weren't really extraordinary and devoted composers at all. They just weren't very good at difficult subjects like chemistry so took the easy music option :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    the word in bold.

    i dont think that comment is really necessary, especially in light of the fact that a) my knowledge had nothing to do with the original suggestion b) you spent all afternoon digging out data that cannot be applied to that suggestion. c) your track record of proving my wrong. the EU butchers bones spring to mind.
    This is directly relevant to your statements, you claimed that Chemistry was 'better' than PE or ICT. If the subjects are easier then why do they have the lowest level of people achieving A grades? You've not been able to back up your assertions with any evidence. It takes seconds to get this data from the Edexcel website, it's there for all to see. All we have to test our claims is the data on those who have taken the A-Levels. You're position is based on delusions. Unless of course you would like to enlighten us all as to why you're so qualified to make these judgements?

    Digging up the past, I proved that the EU legislation did not in fact ban butchers from giving away bones which had not been degreased, you were just as wrong as I was.

    Either make a testable claim with regards to what you believe are micky mouse subjects or admit you're wrong.
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    (Original post by Llamas)
    I proved that the EU legislation did not in fact ban butchers from giving away bones which had not been degreased, you were just as wrong as I was.
    Are you aware of vienna95's views on the EU though?
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Are you aware of vienna95's views on the EU though?
    How could I not be!
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    (Original post by Llamas)
    You've not been able to back up your assertions with any evidence.
    I was trying to explain this to Vienna last night but she wasn't having any of it. She's right for God's sake. End of story. You should know that Vienna is never wrong, how silly of you to suggest otherwise.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    no.


    not related to the debate.


    which assertions are you referring to?


    you claims, not mine. my suggestion, my claims will not be satisfied with the results you provided. they are not applicable.


    why ARE YOU so qualified to make THIS judgement?


    you counter argument did not prove me wrong. my counter argument proved you wrong.



    i made one.
    For Christ's sake Vienna....you've been proved wrong, just accept it instead of resorting to waffle.

    You said that the number of students achieving grade As in each subject would prove which are mickey mouse. The data was found and happened to show fewer students achieving grade As in so-called "mickey mouse" subjects. There's our evidence. Now where's yours?
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    (Original post by musicman)
    I was trying to explain this to Vienna last night but she wasn't having any of it. She's right for God's sake. End of story. You should know that Vienna is never wrong, how silly of you to suggest otherwise.
    if i wanted to be the 'winner' i would go and play cards. im sorry but a discussion with differing opinions and viewpoints isnt really a game to me. what exactly were you trying to explain? from what i remember, my opinion was nonsense and yours was all-binding, according to you. revert the petty sarcasm back on yourself before you look to score 'points'.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    if i wanted to be the 'winner' i would go and play cards..
    When did I use the term "winner"?

    (Original post by vienna95)
    what i remember, my opinion was nonsense and yours was all-binding.
    You said it.

    (Original post by vienna95)
    revert the petty sarcasm back on yourself before you look scoring 'points'
    Erm....no.
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    (Original post by musicman)
    For Christ's sake Vienna....you've been proved wrong, just accept it instead of resorting to waffle.
    where have i been proved wrong? because YOU claim as such?

    You said that the number of students achieving grade As in each subject would prove which are mickey mouse.
    if you actually bothered to read what I wrote, i asserted that you would have to subject the entire 6th form to both examinations.

    The data was found and happened to show fewer students achieving grade As in so-called "mickey mouse" subjects. There's our evidence.
    evidence relating to entrants for each particular exam, not applicable to my assertion in the slightest.

    Piginapoke agrees after examining the same data, "looked at the same data myself yesterday but decided it proved nothing"

    Lord Huntroyde appears to have a theory in this regard, "It doesn't - common sense dictates that only able mathematicians or scientists will take such A-levels, so they are likely to gain high grades.

    People who are less intellectually endowed might choose to do subjects which are considered "easier", such as Media, but still get lower grades.

    Either way, it is no surprise that the sciences get high pass rates and high numbers of top grades - those without a natural flair for them don't touch them with a bargepole."

    i appreciate that they have even the most basic courtesy to distinguish my assertion from your supposed evidence.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    where have i been proved wrong? because YOU say so?
    I think my previous post made it quite clear how you'd been proved wrong, though yet again you won't accept it, as per usual.


    (Original post by vienna95)
    if you actually bothered to read what I wrote, i asserted that you would have to subject the entire 6th form to both examinations.
    Though I thought we were hypothetically saying that "all talents were equal", in which case the data would be reliable.

    (Original post by Vienna95)
    Piginapoke agrees after examining the same data, "looked at the same data myself yesterday but decided it proved nothing"
    Your point....?

    (Original post by Vienna95)
    People who are less intellectually endowed might choose to do subjects which are considered "easier", such as Media, but still get lower grades.
    Is this just based on vague anecdotal evidence or do you have hard proof of this?

    (Original post by vienna95)
    Either way, it is no surprise that the sciences get high pass rates and high numbers of top grades - those without a natural flair for them don't touch them with a bargepole."
    The same can be said for music, drama, PE, languages, performance studies, art, etc, etc, etc.

    (Original post by vienna95)
    i appreciate that they have even the most basic courtesy to distinguish my assertion from your supposed evidence.
    And I'd appreciate it if you actually listened to anything other people said. So you think that if everybody were to do "difficult" science subjects then "easy" mickey mouse subjects then more people would achieve As in mickey mouse subjects than in physics etc? Yes/No answer please, no waffle.
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    Hi Vienna
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    Difficulty is subjective. A subject that you enjoy and choose, you will find much "easier" than another. For example I find subjects like English, History... very hard, wheread someone who does these and enjoys them would be good at them and thus find them easier than I would.

    And why is Mickey Mouse brought into this. I've got one and he's well clever you know! Poor Mickey.

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    (Original post by musicman)
    I think my previous post made it quite clear how you'd been proved wrong, though yet again you won't accept it, as per usual.
    because the 'evidence' is not applicable to my assertion. two other members have been able to testify that much and I rarely have the benefit of that resource.

    Though I thought we were hypothetically saying that "all talents were equal", in which case the data would be reliable.
    an individuals talent in one subject is equal to his/her talent in the other subject. so no, the data still remains irrelevent as far as what im discussing is concerned.

    Your point....?
    since youre convinced im stubborn, i thought a third opinion would be welcome. what better than the man at the top of the members list.

    Is this just based on vague anecdotal evidence or do you have hard proof of this?


    The same can be said for music, drama, PE, languages, performance studies, art, etc, etc, etc.
    youre better off asking Lord Huntroyde himself.

    And I'd appreciate it if you actually listened to anything other people said. So you think that if everybody were to do "difficult" science subjects then "easy" mickey mouse subjects then more people would achieve As in mickey mouse subjects than in physics etc? Yes/No answer please, no waffle.
    i have been listening, and discussing. theres nothing to suggest I havent listened. I appreciated your comments aswell as those by icklehc. randdom also had some opinions that werent favourable to everyone, thats not a problem. the problems start when one or two members start laying personal remarks and fabrication against another person for reasons other than beneficial to the discussion in hand. in the case of yourself and Llamas, that person is me and then you wonder why im slightly peeved while youre grinding your axe.

    in regards to the question, i believe if you took a broad cross section of pupils in A-level education and put them all through Chemistry and Media Studies , the results would be on average, poorer in Chemistry.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    where have i been proved wrong? because YOU claim as such?

    if you actually bothered to read what I wrote, i asserted that you would have to subject the entire 6th form to both examinations.

    evidence relating to entrants for each particular exam, not applicable to my assertion in the slightest.

    Piginapoke agrees after examining the same data, "looked at the same data myself yesterday but decided it proved nothing"

    Lord Huntroyde appears to have a theory in this regard, "It doesn't - common sense dictates that only able mathematicians or scientists will take such A-levels, so they are likely to gain high grades.

    People who are less intellectually endowed might choose to do subjects which are considered "easier", such as Media, but still get lower grades.

    Either way, it is no surprise that the sciences get high pass rates and high numbers of top grades - those without a natural flair for them don't touch them with a bargepole."

    i appreciate that they have even the most basic courtesy to distinguish my assertion from your supposed evidence.
    The subjects may be considered easier, but there's no evidence to show that they are. If the less able still get poor grades in the so called 'micky mouse' subjects then the only conclusion you can justifiably push is that the subjects arn't easier or harder, just a lower caliber of student takes them. Stop skirting round the issue with your tunnel vision approach to debating.

    If you conducted your test (which is unlikely to ever take place) then I see no reason for you to conclude that there would be a pattern of 'micky mouse' subjects. Your claim is pure conjecture and you've put yourself into a nice little hidey hole by refusing to draw conclusions from any available evidence.

    Let's not forget this quote:

    the number of students able to acheive the same pass mark in one subject being significantly higher than another.

    if you took an average 6th form and put them all through Chemistry and then IT or media studies or PhysEd, you could get a clear example of why one is considered to be 'mickey mouse' and the other not.
    Conjecture. Guesswork. Speculation. Redundancy aside; a delusion.

    I've made my judgements on the available evidence. You've yet to provide anything but you're own stale opinion.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    Difficulty is subjective. A subject that you enjoy and choose, you will find much "easier" than another. For example I find subjects like English, History... very hard, wheread someone who does these and enjoys them would be good at them and thus find them easier than I would.

    This has been established but Vienna has to waffle on.

    Has anybody noticed the general trend of Vienna's arguments?

    -Somebody makes a point
    -Vienna HAS to disagree in her usual slapdash "I can't punctuate to save my life" manner
    -Other people put forward their opinions which she instantly claims are wrong.
    -Evidence is offered to support these opinions.
    -Vienna descends into pedantic waffle, still offering no evidence except offering hypothetical situations which merely suggest an idealised scenario rather than offer hard evidence to support her point.
    -The debate therefore loses its focus and becomes centered around Vienna's waffle.
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    (Original post by Llamas)
    Conjecture. Guesswork. Speculation. Redundancy aside; a delusion.

    I've made my judgements on the available evidence. You've yet to provide anything but you're own stale opinion.
    You've hit the nail on the head.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    and what did you get?
    I got a B for physics.
 
 
 
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