Mauritian Creole

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Arran90
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Is anybody here knowledgeable about Mauritian Creole. In particular:

1. Does Mauritian Creole only exist as a spoken language or is it written down apart from personal communications?

2. Is Mauritian Creole mutually intelligible with standard French?

3. Are almost all speakers of Mauritian Creole also fluent in standard French?

4. Does anybody who is not a Mauritian ever learn Mauritian Creole?

5. Is Mauritian Creole ever used in education in Mauritius?

6. Is fluency in Mauritian Creole a defining feature of who is a real Mauritian as opposed to just holding Mauritian nationality?
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Trevish
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[QUOTE=Arran90;71815672]Is anybody here knowledgeable about Mauritian Creole. In particular:

1: Spoken normally but they are starting to make it a written language
2: It's rather familiar with French but not exactly the same
3: Fluent, nope. But they know French
4:- Im mauritian sooooooo
5: They are starting to use now just as a subject( Creole)
6: Not really.
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Arran90
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(Original post by Trevish)
5: They are starting to use now just as a subject( Creole)
It seems like a retrograde step considering that English is slaughtering other languages worldwide. It is the choice language amongst the educated class from developing countries and the language of computer science and IT.

What is the reason for using Creole as a school subject? Are they trying to preserve it like Welsh?
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Trevish
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(Original post by Arran90)
It seems like a retrograde step considering that English is slaughtering other languages worldwide. It is the choice language amongst the educated class from developing countries and the language of computer science and IT.

What is the reason for using Creole as a school subject? Are they trying to preserve it like Welsh?
just to preserve it
well i wouldn't learn it though in written format
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Arran90
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(Original post by Trevish)
just to preserve it
well i wouldn't learn it though in written format
The number of Welsh speakers reached a record low around 1981 (judging from census returns) so many initiatives were made to encourage the use of Welsh including bi-lingual road signs; the S4C Welsh television channel; and teaching Welsh in schools. The initiatives seemed to work and by the early 2000s there had been a significant rise in the number of children and young people fluent or reasonably knowledgeable in Welsh. Many of the efforts have been undone in recent years with the rise of social media. Feelings towards teaching and learning Welsh are very mixed across Wales, and are particularly negative in urban parts of south Wales especially amongst people who have moved in from outside of Wales. With the rise of social media and video games in English questions are being raised as to whether it's worth spending much money and effort to try to keep Welsh alive as a language.

At least Welsh exists in written form unlike Mauritian Creole so it won't completely die. It will just become another Latin. Does the government of Mauritius fear that changes in technology and economic circumstances mean that Mauritian Creole could die unless initiatives are made to preserve it?
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Trevish
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(Original post by Arran90)
The number of Welsh speakers reached a record low around 1981 (judging from census returns) so many initiatives were made to encourage the use of Welsh including bi-lingual road signs; the S4C Welsh television channel; and teaching Welsh in schools. The initiatives seemed to work and by the early 2000s there had been a significant rise in the number of children and young people fluent or reasonably knowledgeable in Welsh. Many of the efforts have been undone in recent years with the rise of social media. Feelings towards teaching and learning Welsh are very mixed across Wales, and are particularly negative in urban parts of south Wales especially amongst people who have moved in from outside of Wales. With the rise of social media and video games in English questions are being raised as to whether it's worth spending much money and effort to try to keep Welsh alive as a language.

At least Welsh exists in written form unlike Mauritian Creole so it won't completely die. It will just become another Latin. Does the government of Mauritius fear that changes in technology and economic circumstances mean that Mauritian Creole could die unless initiatives are made to preserve it?
I won't say it is a language which might die. But they are improving on the language and trying to make it an official one. The reason I say I won't learn it in written is because, normally when we chat in mauritian creole, we write in our own way, but when it's being official, it seems confusing + IT is a bit like a french which might confuse us furthermore
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Arran90
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(Original post by Trevish)
But they are improving on the language and trying to make it an official one.
What is the reason for this because it's a language almost entirely confined to Mauritius? Fluency in Mauritian Creole will be of marginal benefit economically.

IT is a bit like a french which might confuse us furthermore
It's questionable whether Mauritian Creole is a proper language or whether it is a corrupted dialect of French. If Mauritian Creole was an ancient indigenous language then I could understand initiatives to protect and preserve it, like Welsh or Cornish, but it is debatable whether initiatives should be made to preserve what is possibly a corrupted dialect of a prominent language or make it a main language.

Which particular ethnic groups in Mauritius are most and least supportive of Mauritian Creole?
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Trevish
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(Original post by Arran90)
What is the reason for this because it's a language almost entirely confined to Mauritius? Fluency in Mauritian Creole will be of marginal benefit economically.



It's questionable whether Mauritian Creole is a proper language or whether it is a corrupted dialect of French. If Mauritian Creole was an ancient indigenous language then I could understand initiatives to protect and preserve it, like Welsh or Cornish, but it is debatable whether initiatives should be made to preserve what is possibly a corrupted dialect of a prominent language or make it a main language.

Which particular ethnic groups in Mauritius are most and least supportive of Mauritian Creole?
I would like to point out that it's not a corrupt dialect of French. It's actually a mixture of African languages with French because of the slaves etc
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Arran90
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(Original post by Trevish)
I would like to point out that it's not a corrupt dialect of French. It's actually a mixture of African languages with French because of the slaves etc
I thought that it was a mixture of French with some Indian languages. The number of people of Indian origin in Mauritius is far greater than the number of people of African origin. I am vaguely aware that some Indian languages are in everyday use in Mauritius.

Are there different dialects of Mauritian Creole depending on the community that uses it?
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Arran90
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Why exactly would a Muslim or a Hindu want to use Creole, or even be passionate about the language when:

1. It is not a language of their heritage.

2. It is not a language known by Muslims or Hindus who are not Mauritian.

3. It is completely confined to Mauritius and is not an international language.

4. It is a language of African slaves from the 18th century when Mauritius was a French colony whereas the Muslims and Hindus arrived in Mauritius during the 19th and early 20th century when Mauritius was a British colony.

It seems like Mauritius is part of a small number of countries where its citizens don't like English. Is Mauritius founded on a bedrock of a variant of nationalism where a unique identity is more important than the heritage of its people or economic expediency? Singapore made a clever move of choosing English as its national language whilst also respecting and supporting the heritage languages of its citizens. This was not because Singapore was British colony, it was because English is a global language and the language of science and business. Singapore is therefore outwards looking with one eye on the future and the other eye on the past. Mauritius. I struggle to understand why Muslims and Hindus have not abandoned Creole for English and the languages of their heritage.
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Trevish
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I would like to point out that ENGLISH is used in the parliamentary, at school and in various sectors(work). Don't point out when you don't know ****
Singapore has something called Singlish as well, which is mostly english with some singaporean things
Mauritian Creole is used for VERBAL communication
It is unique to the country and there is no sense of abandoning it. Also there is the Haitian Creole and different types of creoles which more or less similar
Your "reply" seems a complete attack to Mauritius
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Arran90
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(Original post by Trevish)
I would like to point out that ENGLISH is used in the parliamentary, at school and in various sectors(work). Don't point out when you don't know ****
Singapore has something called Singlish as well, which is mostly english with some singaporean things
Mauritian Creole is used for VERBAL communication
It is unique to the country and there is no sense of abandoning it. Also there is the Haitian Creole and different types of creoles which more or less similar
Your "reply" seems a complete attack to Mauritius
I find Mauritius to be a bewildering and difficult to understand country. Are you a Muslim or a Hindu because I'm interested in the situation from their perspective?

I have known Muslims and Hindus from the Indian subcontinent over the years and they have a long standing heritage that goes back centuries. They use a combination of a local language of their country of origin, a national language of their country of origin, or English. I have also known Singaporeans of different backgrounds. Therefore I'm using these people as a benchmark to compare Mauritius with.

Many mainland African countries use French as their national language. This is usually standard French rather than Creole although French and local language hybrids do unofficially exist. French serves two purposes as a national language:

1. A unifying language between numerous tribal groups each of which has their own local language that people from other tribal groups generally do not know.

2. An international language functioning as an interface to the wider world.

Creole in Mauritius only functions as (1) because it is virtually unknown and unused outside of Mauritius.

Do most Muslims and Hindus in Mauritius consider themselves to be first and foremost Mauritian or do they put their religion and / or their heritage first?

An interesting comparison is between the British system of multiculturalism and the French system of civic nationalism. Which is Mauritius closer to?
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Sir P.Ennis
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I lived in Mauritius for about a year and learned to speak the language fairly easily. I am half French so it came easy to me. Considering most of their words are broken French anyway.

Most Mauritians speak both French and English. From what I can tell. Although the ones who are uneducated only speak the standard Mauritian creole.

Why are you planning on moving there?
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Arran90
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(Original post by Sir P.Ennis)
From what I can tell. Although the ones who are uneducated only speak the standard Mauritian creole.
Interesting. Is Creole declining amongst the more educated younger population? Do they go round thinking that Creole is the language that the lower classes and grandparents speak?

I have read that there have been calls to include Creole in the primary school curriculum in order to improve literacy but I struggle to understand how this would work because Creole is largely a spoken language are there is next to no literature in Creole.

How is digital media having effects on Creole vs English? Could video games and social media end up successfully in improving literacy in English whilst initiatives in primary schools over the decades have failed? Do any video games in Creole even exist?

Why are you planning on moving there?
I'm very curious to know. I understand why Creole is the language of the descendents of African slaves from the 18th century but it intrigues me how and why it has penetrated deeply into Muslim and Hindu communities. Logically either (pure) French or English should be the unifying language of Mauritius along with heritage languages that differ between ethnic groups.
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Sir P.Ennis
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(Original post by Arran90)
Interesting. Is Creole declining amongst the more educated younger population? Do they go round thinking that Creole is the language that the lower classes and grandparents speak?

I have read that there have been calls to include Creole in the primary school curriculum in order to improve literacy but I struggle to understand how this would work because Creole is largely a spoken language are there is next to no literature in Creole.

How is digital media having effects on Creole vs English? Could video games and social media end up successfully in improving literacy in English whilst initiatives in primary schools over the decades have failed? Do any video games in Creole even exist?



I'm very curious to know. I understand why Creole is the language of the descendents of African slaves from the 18th century but it intrigues me how and why it has penetrated deeply into Muslim and Hindu communities. Logically either (pure) French or English should be the unifying language of Mauritius along with heritage languages that differ between ethnic groups.
Lol no. Everyone on the island speaks Creole it is still the main language regardless of their level of education or social status.

But the spoken language of the Mauritian media is French.

Mauritius is an island with only 1.2 million inhabitants. Have you ever visited Mauritius?

Mostly all goods are imported from overseas that includes video games.

Mauritius is been independent from colonization of the British and the French empire for more than 50 years now. And creole is an integral part of the island. It will always be the main language regardless of how insignificant Mauritian Creole is to the rest of the world.

Yes, the vast majority of the population are descendants of India and Gujarat. But there are also native Africans and Chinese that live there also, but they are in the minority.

But I live in the UK now. And I have not been back there in 3 years.

Why are you so interested in Mauritius anyway?
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Arran90
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(Original post by Sir P.Ennis)
And creole is an integral part of the island. It will always be the main language regardless of how insignificant Mauritian Creole is to the rest of the world.
Is the ability to speak Creole a defining criteria amongst Mauritians for who is a real Mauritian and who isn't? In other words, is Creole like a secret code known only to Mauritians and nobody else?

Native languages are declining throughout the world as they are being replaced by English and other mainstream languages but is Creole bucking the trend because it survives on effectively nationalist grounds?
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Trevish
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(Original post by Arran90)
I find Mauritius to be a bewildering and difficult to understand country. Are you a Muslim or a Hindu because I'm interested in the situation from their perspective?

I have known Muslims and Hindus from the Indian subcontinent over the years and they have a long standing heritage that goes back centuries. They use a combination of a local language of their country of origin, a national language of their country of origin, or English. I have also known Singaporeans of different backgrounds. Therefore I'm using these people as a benchmark to compare Mauritius with.

Many mainland African countries use French as their national language. This is usually standard French rather than Creole although French and local language hybrids do unofficially exist. French serves two purposes as a national language:

1. A unifying language between numerous tribal groups each of which has their own local language that people from other tribal groups generally do not know.

2. An international language functioning as an interface to the wider world.

Creole in Mauritius only functions as (1) because it is virtually unknown and unused outside of Mauritius.

Do most Muslims and Hindus in Mauritius consider themselves to be first and foremost Mauritian or do they put their religion and / or their heritage first?

An interesting comparison is between the British system of multiculturalism and the French system of civic nationalism. Which is Mauritius closer to?
I'm Hindu.
If you are not from Mauritius, it's better to stay quiet .
Mauritius uses a mixture of French & British Law.
Is it affecting you somewhere if Mauritian Creole is used when it comes to verbal communication?

Mauritius was recently considered to be in the "African" Region due to its location, however it's not so similar to African countries. And MOST african countries actually use english.

Singapore is different from Mauritius.


Most people know English or French in the country.

Those who probably don't know English perfectly would be the old persons who didn't achieve a high level of education in the past.


Also, if you are not aware, there are Muslims, Christians, Hindu, Chinese in the country and not solely Muslims & Hindus .

Why not talk about Christians?
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Trevish
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Trust me, Mauritian creole is not going away soon ! Infact it was also included in primary education to preserve it.
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Arran90
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(Original post by Trevish)
I'm Hindu
How does a Hindu who speaks Mauritian Creole as a first language square with Hindus living outside of Mauritius when almost all of them cannot speak the language and have no interest in learning it? The majority of Hindus worldwide only know Indian languages and English apart from foreign languages learned at school, such as French and German for GCSE.

Mauritius was recently considered to be in the "African" Region due to its location, however it's not so similar to African countries.
I have had difficulty working out exactly where Mauritius fits in with the rest of the world. Is it really part of Africa because it is very different demographically and culturally from mainland African countries? Is it an outpost of south Asia because of the heritage of a high proportion of its citizens? Should it be lumped in with Australia, New Zealand, and Pacific Islands? Mauritius is an oddball nation.

Why not talk about Christians?
The (white) French detest Creole because they jeolously safeguard their language and detest it being corrupted. They do not regard Creole to be a language in its own right but a corrupted and *******ised dialect of French. I have been informed that if you talk to a Frenchman in any form of Creole or corrupted French dialect then they will reply in pure French on principle. At the opposite end of the scale are the (mostly Catholic) descendents of African slaves from the 18th century where Creole is their mother tongue although, rather strangely, support for Creole to become an official language of Mauritius is only lukewarm amongst this ethnic group.
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Trevish
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We barely have to communicate with other Hindus. We are Hindus, not Indians, which is a huge difference.

Are yoi butthurt by the fact that Mauritians speak creole or what?
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