votes just for taxpayers

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ProdC
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#1
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#1
Minors do not have the right to vote, that is for two reasons: they are stupid and they don't contribute to society in any way.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have just taxpayers to vote? Only working people who contribute to the society. Retirees, unemployed, minors, students, tax avoiders and others who don't contribute to the society, don't get to elect it. They of course should be somehow represented in the voting process, but no direct right to vote.
What do you think about this?

And for Gods sake, I am only brainstorming and trying to find reasons why this would be a bad idea. I am not standing strongly behind this, I am just wondering and asking people what they think.
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Dusky Mauve
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#2
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'Somehow be represented in the voting process'. But cannot vote. How would you suggest this would be achieved?
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999tigger
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#3
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#3
(Original post by ProdC)
Minors do not have the right to vote, that is for two reasons: they are stupid and they don't contribute to society in any way.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have just taxpayers to vote? Only working people who contribute to the society. Retirees, unemployed, minors, students, tax avoiders and others who don't contribute to the society, don't get to elect it. They of course should be somehow represented in the voting process, but no direct right to vote.
What do you think about this?
Which taxes?
Havent retirees spent a lifetime contributing? What about mothers who contribute to the welfare and raising of families? They havent or dont contribute in any way?
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username2965904
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#4
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If you buy anything with VAT on it you are a taxpayer
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ProdC
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#5
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Which taxes?
Havent retirees spent a lifetime contributing? What about mothers who contribute to the welfare and raising of families? They havent or dont contribute in any way?
my bad, income tax. (VAT doesn't count)
Well, the elderly contributed all of their life and they elected all of their life. As soon as you stop paying income tax, and you live off welfare and pensions and other such govt funded income, you lose your right to vote.
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ProdC
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#6
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(Original post by KingHarold)
If you buy anything with VAT on it you are a taxpayer
my bad, income tax. VAT and others shouldn't count.
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ProdC
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#7
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(Original post by Dusky Mauve)
'Somehow be represented in the voting process'. But cannot vote. How would you suggest this would be achieved?
they could be represented in polls and during campaigns, have a voice. maybe make their votes count less, say 0.5 of a taxpayers vote. in any way, diminish their influence on the final outcome of the voting process.
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999tigger
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#8
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(Original post by ProdC)
my bad, income tax. (VAT doesn't count)
Well, the elderly contributed all of their life and they elected all of their life. As soon as you stop paying income tax, and you live off welfare and pensions and other such govt funded income, you lose your right to vote.
So you dont believe in democracy, then . Ok.
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IWMTom
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#9
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What about Corporation Tax? Does that count in your very specific subset of taxation?
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JamesN88
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#10
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So could people opt out of income tax if they relinquish their right to vote? Would voting be compulsory for everyone who works?
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ProdC
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#11
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#11
(Original post by 999tigger)
So you dont believe in democracy, then . Ok.
not in absolute democracy, no. absolute democracy gives you Brexit and **** as such. this is moderate democracy. Reference Plato.
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ProdC
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#12
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(Original post by IWMTom)
What about Corporation Tax? Does that count in your very specific subset of taxation?
no, it doesn't, because corporations don't vote anyway.
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ProdC
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#13
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(Original post by JamesN88)
So could people opt out of income tax if they relinquish their right to vote? Would voting be compulsory for everyone who works?
Voting should be compulsory but failing to do so should not be punishable.
One couldn't refuse to pay tax, the attitude towards taxation would be pretty much as it is at the moment.
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IWMTom
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#14
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(Original post by ProdC)
no, it doesn't, because corporations don't vote anyway.
I don't pay income tax, but as the sole director of a company, I pay corporation tax on my profits - I run under a private company rather than a sole trader. I currently do not pay myself enough of a wage to pay income tax, but as the threshold is nil, I pay corporation tax on my hard earned money.

Should I not be allowed to vote?
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999tigger
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#15
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#15
(Original post by ProdC)
not in absolute democracy, no. absolute democracy gives you Brexit and **** as such. this is moderate democracy. Reference Plato.
OK go for it then, no harm with you wanting to disenfranchise millions of people.
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Drewski
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#16
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#16
(Original post by ProdC)
What do you think about this?
I believe I speak for most people when I say I think you're talking out of your arse.
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JamesN88
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#17
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(Original post by ProdC)
not in absolute democracy, no. absolute democracy gives you Brexit and **** as such. this is moderate democracy. Reference Plato.
It can seem absurd that the "Muslamic ray gun" bloke and Stephen Hawking get an equal say but that's the principle of modern liberal democracy, everyone has an equal share in it via their vote.
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ProdC
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#18
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#18
(Original post by IWMTom)
I don't pay income tax, but as the sole director of a company, I pay corporation tax on my profits - I run under a private company rather than a sole trader. I currently do not pay myself enough of a wage to pay income tax, but as the threshold is nil, I pay corporation tax on my hard earned money.

Should I not be allowed to vote?
Any changes in the voting system would cause problems and the need for a change.
Officially, your company is paying tax, not you.
Such a change of the voting mechanism would cause people like to actually pay themselves a salary from their corporation, and pay tax from it.
Since your company's income is not stable and it varies, you could pay yourself a minor minimal salary of a day/week worth of work, and pay tax from it and therefore purchase your right to vote.
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IWMTom
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#19
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(Original post by ProdC)
Any changes in the voting system would cause problems and the need for a change.
Officially, your company is paying tax, not you.
Such a change of the voting mechanism would cause people like to actually pay themselves a salary from their corporation, and pay tax from it.
Since your company's income is not stable and it varies, you could pay yourself a minor minimal salary of a day/week worth of work, and pay tax from it and therefore purchase your right to vote.
That's absolute nonsense. Based on legal entities, yes, I am not the one paying tax, but I am still contributing to the economy of the country. Your logic is flawed; your system would never work.
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ProdC
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#20
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#20
(Original post by JamesN88)
It can seem absurd that the "Muslamic ray gun" bloke and Stephen Hawking get an equal say but that's the principle of modern liberal democracy, everyone has an equal share in it via their vote.
Well that's the point, isn't it the time to change the system to an improved democracy? A democracy with a whiff meritocracy?
This system still is democratic, except for it is not equal.
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