The Student Room Group

Are women still oppressed???

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Reply 20
Original post by Quava
Relatively true my friend.
However oppression of women is all over the world. Women don't even have equal pay in the UK.


Women are much more likely than men to take leave to care for a baby. Women are much less likely than men to work overtime, and less likely to push themselves into prominent corporate positions. Companies will obviously be favoring the worker who works the longer hours and takes less paid leave. This is why, on average, men earn more than women. The problem comes when women and men are putting in the same hours and women receive significantly less than their male peers. In fact, women are much more likely to be paid a higher salary than men if they persist in their work and do not have children or take leave. The cases of women working the same time as men being paid significantly less than their male peers is miniscule, and is obviously subject to other variables I haven't mentioned.
Reply 21
Original post by Djerun
Women are much more likely than men to take leave to care for a baby. Women are much less likely than men to work overtime, and less likely to push themselves into prominent corporate positions. Companies will obviously be favoring the worker who works the longer hours and takes less paid leave. This is why, on average, men earn more than women. The problem comes when women and men are putting in the same hours and women receive significantly less than their male peers. In fact, women are much more likely to be paid a higher salary than men if they persist in their work and do not have children or take leave. The cases of women working the same time as men being paid significantly less than their male peers is miniscule, and is obviously subject to other variables I haven't mentioned.


Check the facts. Men earn more. My teacher told me herself that the male teachers in the department earn more than the female teachers. If you were to have a male and female candidate with the same exp, grades etc. the facts state men earn more.
It is still common in a domestic setting but I don't think they are by mainstream society as a whole.
Original post by Djerun
Women are much more likely than men to take leave to care for a baby. Women are much less likely than men to work overtime, and less likely to push themselves into prominent corporate positions. Companies will obviously be favoring the worker who works the longer hours and takes less paid leave. This is why, on average, men earn more than women. The problem comes when women and men are putting in the same hours and women receive significantly less than their male peers. In fact, women are much more likely to be paid a higher salary than men if they persist in their work and do not have children or take leave. The cases of women working the same time as men being paid significantly less than their male peers is miniscule, and is obviously subject to other variables I haven't mentioned.


Also the difference in earnings mostly arises at the higher pay levels and people at the higher pay levels are in their 50s and 60s so would have grown up in the 1950s and 60s when women didn't go for careers as much. You can't expect that to disappear overnight. The demographic changes need time to come through. If you look at the gap between genders in their 20s, it is virtually nonexistent.
University-educated women in the free world on their MacBooks, sipping their coffee: OMG, I'm so oppressed.

Meanwhile, in North Korea...
Reply 25
"Women are not oppressed in muslim countries, men just hold rights over women and they can hit them if they disobey them" - EternalLight

She loves getting spanked though so she does not have a problem with it :sexface:
Reply 26
Original post by Quava
Check the facts. Men earn more. My teacher told me herself that the male teachers in the department earn more than the female teachers. If you were to have a male and female candidate with the same exp, grades etc. the facts state men earn more.


So the fact that "your teacher told you herself" is the basis for your argument? I'd struggle to find any leading economist that would agree that on the same hours and time, women earn significantly less than men. Male teachers don't have babies, so wouldn't be taking leave for them. Therefore, men would be working more time and subsequently deserve more pay.
Not in the UK, no.

And the amusing thing is that it's usually white, middle-class women trying to tell all other women that they're being oppressed when in reality, most women simply don't feel that way. That's probably why support for feminism in the UK is (thankfully) only 7%.
Reply 28
Original post by Djerun
So the fact that "your teacher told you herself" is the basis for your argument? I'd struggle to find any leading economist that would agree that on the same hours and time, women earn significantly less than men. Male teachers don't have babies, so wouldn't be taking leave for them. Therefore, men would be working more time and subsequently deserve more pay.


OMG MY TEACHER IS NOT THE BASIS OF MY ARGUMENT. Oh **** my capslock broke.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/06/equal-pay-gender-gap-britain-women-earnings-men

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/nov/28/men-uk-still-paid-vastly-more-women-gender-pay-gap-study

The UK's gender wage gap stands at 9.4 per cent in 2016 according to the ONS ... Back in 2012 women earned 9.5 per cent less than men.
Reply 29
Original post by feministy
Aye, but women are still oppressed.


Women share the same rights as men in the United Kingdom. Black people were oppressed by Americans centuries ago, they were systematically enslaved by a system with legal backing. Their rights were null and were regarded as less than human. That is oppression.

This is the definition of oppression, "prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or exercise of authority." You are saying that women, as a gender, are being wholly oppressed by by a system of authority. What would you say to the women in prominent positions, such as JK Rowling? Theresa May? What about the 18 female billionaires in the United Kingdom? Black people would never have gained such prominence in the horrific, oppressive society that they lived in. Women occupy many of the same roles as men, graduate and receive better grades than men (on average) and occupy some of the most prominent positions in the United Kingdom. Nursing, Pharmaceuticals, social care, community management, psychology, veterinary medicine and other fields are dominated by women. You could equally claim that men were being "oppressed" using this logic. There is no oppression of women in countries such as the United Kingdom, and by claiming debatable incidents of "sexism" with no solid factual backing completely disregards the problems truly oppressed people face.
Reply 30
Original post by Quava
OMG MY TEACHER IS NOT THE BASIS OF MY ARGUMENT. Oh **** my capslock broke.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/06/equal-pay-gender-gap-britain-women-earnings-men

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/nov/28/men-uk-still-paid-vastly-more-women-gender-pay-gap-study

The UK's gender wage gap stands at 9.4 per cent in 2016 according to the ONS ... Back in 2012 women earned 9.5 per cent less than men.


Tell me, why should a person who does less work, takes more leave, is much less likely to do overtime should rightfully earn more than a person who rarely takes leave and rarely works overtime? There is a pay gap, it is not relative to the same amount of hours and time. (with variables applied)
In western countries women are still heavily oppressed.
Original post by Djerun
Women share the same rights as men in the United Kingdom. Black people were oppressed by Americans centuries ago, they were systematically enslaved by a system with legal backing. Their rights were null and were regarded as less than human. That is oppression.

This is the definition of oppression, "prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or exercise of authority." You are saying that women, as a gender, are being wholly oppressed by by a system of authority. What would you say to the women in prominent positions, such as JK Rowling? Theresa May? What about the 18 female billionaires in the United Kingdom? Black people would never have gained such prominence in the horrific, oppressive society that they lived in. Women occupy many of the same roles as men, graduate and receive better grades than men (on average) and occupy some of the most prominent positions in the United Kingdom. Nursing, Pharmaceuticals, social care, community management, psychology, veterinary medicine and other fields are dominated by women. You could equally claim that men were being "oppressed" using this logic. There is no oppression of women in countries such as the United Kingdom, and by claiming debatable incidents of "sexism" with no solid factual backing completely disregards the problems truly oppressed people face.

Oh yeah lol I forgot sexism doesn't exist!!! Silly me!
Reply 33
Original post by Djerun
Tell me, why should a person who does less work, takes more leave, is much less likely to do overtime should rightfully earn more than a person who rarely takes leave and rarely works overtime? There is a pay gap, it is not relative to the same amount of hours and time. (with variables applied)


No because not all women get pregnant and take time off. If a woman works the same hours as the man and has the same stats, why should the women who is clearly just as hard working, be paid less?
Reply 34
Original post by feministy
Oh yeah lol I forgot sexism doesn't exist!!! Silly me!


Uh, sexism does exist..
Original post by Quava
Check the facts. Men earn more. My teacher told me herself that the male teachers in the department earn more than the female teachers. If you were to have a male and female candidate with the same exp, grades etc. the facts state men earn more.


That would be illegal. So unless the school is openly breaking the law, there's something else responsible for the difference.

Men tend to negotiate for higher pay, take less time off, work more hours, etc. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for pay disparities that don't have anything to do with discrimination.

When these factors are controlled for, time and again the pay gap shrinks to practically nothing.

Importantly, the gap only really becomes significant for married women with children. The gap for single, childless women is something like 5% and even less if they're younger.

It's mostly about choice. Women just choose to work less, hence lower average pay. That and they get pregnant.
Original post by Quava
Relatively true my friend.
However oppression of women is all over the world. Women don't even have equal pay in the UK.


In what way (and how) don't women have equal pay? (Site published papers if possible)
Original post by feministy
Oh yeah lol I forgot sexism doesn't exist!!! Silly me!


Never has an oppressed group:

Been better educated (girls do better in school)

Had a higher healthcare spending on them

Had more lenient sentences in court

Had bias in family courts towards them

Had a lower chance of being physically assaulted

Had a lower chance of being murdered

Had less work related injuries & deaths

Been less likely to be depressed

Been less likely to kill themselves

Been less likely to be unemployed

Been less likely to be homeless

Been less likely to abuse drugs

Been seen as worth more ("women and children first", domestic violence being seen as a female issue when the proportion is more like 40% men and 60% women)

Had the power to ruin the "oppressors" life by claiming rape

Lived longer

Had a movement, despite all these points, claiming they are oppressed and that they need even more privileges


The average woman is not oppressed. The only thing that resembles oppression in the UK today, is class oppression. Which effects both women and men.
Reply 38
Original post by Dandaman1
That would be illegal. So unless the school is openly breaking the law, there's something else responsible for the difference.

Men tend to negotiate for higher pay, take less time off, work more hours, etc. There are plenty of legitimate reasons for pay disparities that don't have anything to do with discrimination.

When these factors are controlled for, time and again the pay gap shrinks to practically nothing.

Importantly, the gap only really becomes significant for married women with children. The gap for single, childless women is something like 5% and even less if they're younger.

It's mostly about choice. Women just choose to work less, hence lower average pay. That and they get pregnant.


https://www.theguardian.com/society/...n-earnings-men

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...-pay-gap-study

The UK's gender wage gap stands at 9.4 per cent in 2016 according to the ONS ... Back in 2012 women earned 9.5 per cent less than men.
Reply 39
Original post by Quava
No because not all women get pregnant and take time off. If a woman works the same hours as the man and has the same stats, why should the women who is clearly just as hard working, be paid less?


But much more than the majority DO get pregnant and take time off. Sure there are many that don't, but the majority do. Women in their 20s earn more on average than me, this suddenly changes when the women reach their 30s however. This directly ties in with women having children at around 30 or more years of age.

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