Ox/bridge Medicine Watch

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Ben.S.
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#141
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#141
(Original post by Sza)
BTW i love the digression from the topic title.
It normally happens!

Ben
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LH
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#142
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#142
(Original post by Ben.S.)
Age! Mature wine and cheese can't act responsibly and expertly express opinions!

Ben
But set ages do not have set maturity. I have always been mature for my age.
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Sza
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#143
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#143
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
But set ages do not have set maturity. I have always been mature for my age.
Why would you say that?

Because you've thought of your future alot more then people of your own age?
Because your able to argue against people older then you?
Because you (maybe) have a high intelligence then others?

Please Lordy explain...
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Leekey
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#144
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#144
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
But set ages do not have set maturity. I have always been mature for my age.
I dont think that anyone is really in a postion to judge thier own maturity!!!
Ben.S.
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#145
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#145
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
But set ages do not have set maturity. I have always been mature for my age.
I know set ages don't have set maturities - how nice it would be if they did. But maturity means age (as well as what you're talking about) - that's all I'm getting at.

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LH
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#146
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#146
(Original post by Leekey)
I dont think that anyone is really in a postion to judge thier own maturity!!!
I am probably a better judge than somone who has never met me who is sitting at another computer.
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Leekey
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#147
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#147
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
I am probably a better judge than somone who has never met me who is sitting at another computer.
Hopefully that wasnt aimed at me becasue if you read my post(s) you will find that I have never commented on anyones maturity and my comment which you quoted was a general one for everyone!!!
Ben.S.
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#148
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#148
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
I am probably a better judge than somone who has never met me who is sitting at another computer.
Did anyone say otherwise? It is never really appropriate to assess your own character and intelligence - arrogant, maybe. I'll believe you, though.

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LH
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#149
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#149
(Original post by Ben.S.)
Did anyone say otherwise? It is never really appropriate to assess your own character and intelligence - arrogant, maybe. I'll believe you, though.

Ben
There is a fine line between arrogance and extreme confidence. I am always just on one side or the other.
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not1
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#150
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#150
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
There is a fine line between arrogance and extreme confidence. I am always just on one side or the other.
i used to err on the side of the latter, dont feel i have either nowadays.
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LH
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#151
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#151
(Original post by edders)
i used to err on the side of the latter, dont feel i have either nowadays.
It is best to be about two steps away from the line on the confidence side, but it is easy to stray.
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not1
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#152
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#152
i hope you appreciate how lucky ur going to a grammar school lordy. i wish i had, i might have done some work for my gcses then, and got a place at oxford as it was i just dossed around with my mates for 5 years (as you can easily do when at a state school) and got mediocre grades... tried to make up for it with my alevels by working really hard but the AS's werent enough to make up for it.
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iluvthesun
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#153
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#153
(Original post by Haz)
Yes, I objected to that bit too. The interviewer will spot an arrogant attitude a mile off and believe me, they will hate it. An aquaintence of mine was rejected from Cambridge. He had a very sharp mind, 6 A grades and an attitude like yours.
The hard part is trying to "sell yourself" to the interviewer without seeming arrogant. I mean, if you really want to get in, you're not gonna just sit there and not talk about your brilliant achievements, right?! You might seem a bit too shy to them...

I dunno if that's the right attitude for medical applicants, as opposed to applicants for Law. But you've got to show them why you're better than the thousand or so other applicants, cos they only have 200 places! If you say that "any university will do - so long as I become a doctor", then why put oxbridge as your first choice? If you apply to oxbridge, then it's apparent that you DO care about what university you end up at.

The interviewers are looking for modesty, but they should understand that people who apply have the intention of getting in. Therefore a little showing-off is not that big a crime! What a blurry issue. Anyone got different opinions?

____
Mace
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lala
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#154
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#154
(Original post by Haz)
Lala -

On the face of it I feel ‘state school’ because that is my most recent experience. I had thought that although a private primary education helped put me on a level playing field (because of my hearing) I hadn’t retained anything else from it. Your comment about your basic skills made me think again and realise that the fact I managed to get through a bad state school successfully is probably largely due to the strong basic skills I had when I went up. They also allowed me to get the most out of that unique state school diversity. I too am worried about the class issue at Cambridge but these days I expect there to be a fair few people that share a similar background, or the difference not to be that noticeable. Sadly I don’t think many working class students at a very bad school would have the teaching or other help they needed to apply to Oxbridge. Do you think that if you had continued at your state you would have applied? While I think the assisted places scheme illustrates the problem with some state schools rather than solves it, I’m really glad that at least some people get the opportunities they deserve.

My point about social demeanour was more relevant to those state schools from areas such as mine with both middle and working class students. Here you get the diversity that can produce excellent social skills, but they allow one to adapt to different social groups rather than be familiar with an upper middle class social demeanour for example. I realise that if a state school is in an all working class area such as yours, you lose that diversity. I think our ‘mixed backgrounds’ will ultimately make us more socially aware – an invaluable skill for university. I was not familiar with the Sutton Trust but I have now looked it up in google. It seems like a good idea – I imagine bright students will be able to catch up quickly to a level that matches their public school counterparts, and also give them practice at academic conversational skills. However, as with all these schemes, they need to be wider reaching. The fact that schools accept and encourage the schemes shows that they are not always the most needy. My school had very little interest in becoming involved in any of these schemes provided by university. It’s a great start, but the negative ideology in some schools needs to be tackled before something like the Sutton trust can be embraced. This is a very preliminary point mind, I don’t know much about it yet! BTW, my hearing has gradually got better and is good now. I just have the odd problem it.
Working class state school pupils tend not to apply for a couple of reasons, both linked to the fact that our/their (see, identity crisis!) is likely to be inferior to that of middle class pupils. The teaching isnt going to be anything like as good as at a good independent or state so grades are unlikely to be as good and as you say, there is unlikely to be the encouragement- my secondary school basically told me I should apply to Oxbridge, until then it hadnt occured to me. Which I think speaks volumes about the different levels of encouragement. There wont be any role models because a working class applicant is less likely to know anyone else who has applied, and there is also the worry that the family and peer group might disapprove- a helluva lot of people where I live have been surprised when I've explained that you no longer have to be a toff to go to Oxbridge.
I dont think there is any chance that I'd have applied if I'd continued in the local state system. For a start, I wouldnt have got the grades that I did- occasionally someone manages to get a string of A*s but you need such dedication and willingness to go against the grain, and I know I wouldnt have been able to. I would have gone insane. A big part of the problem is that, in my area at least, working class teenagers are aware of university but just dont see it as at all relevant to them or as something that they can aspire to, hence in my area I'm a massive novelty as a student. I think you're right about the diversity point then, I can see how a state education in a mixed area would provide you with this, though as you say it should be remembered that it wont be the same at a school where one social group is predominant. That said, while I do think that having had a mixed education gives you a great advantage because of having experienced both sides of the coin, in terms of going to Oxbridge and being comfortable there it's probably more important to be familiar with the middle class attitude and way of doing things then anything else!
I thought you might be interested in the Sutton Trust stuff because of what you said about diversity when social classes mix and not having to give up opportunities. I agree very much with its founders philosophy- basically that the independent sector will always be there and the fairest thing to do is to open it up by providing funds for children who would otherwise lack educational opportunities to attend. This chimed in exactly with what I think. Its not the answer to everything, obviously, but I think that while there are still some people whose state education will be crap, its a great opportunity and serves as a way out. I look forward to the day when the state education available to everyone is so good that children dont have to opt out of it if they want something better then completely appalling, but to be honest I think it might be a long wait.
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DanMushMan
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#155
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#155
Can I just say that as a current Cambridge Med student I'd like to set a few things straight.

Firstly, not everyone is a snob, hardly anyone is. The majority of people aren't from a private school. The med course in the country may not be the 'best' in the country; I can find many many different sources of 'league tables' which totally disagree with each other. Pick a uni because of the course and the location, if you're happy with that then that's all you need, especially for a medical course (since all are GMC-approved).

A lot of college's now, due in part to external pressures are trying to make a level playing field for people. Most interviewers will know that someone from a public school will have had more opportunities to practise interviews than other people, infact interviewers don't like someone who produces a 'perfect' interview, because it looks coached.

There seems to be a stigma where anyone from 'oxbridge' should be ashamed, because they're all obviously rich snobs who've had everything handed to them on a plate. When in fact its just full of hard-working people who deserve their places there and should be proud.
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Jamie
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#156
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#156
The fool has landed...
Looks like good scope for laying smackdowns round here, and lots of people onto the job already.

Anywho...
1) Read a comment further back on this monstrosity of a thread that doctors seem all to be middle classed. Personally I'm an unemployed-class background medic, but make no mistake, I'll be middle classed when I graduate. There are no owrking class doctors for gods sake. The title defies it!
If there's one thing I hate it's people banding the label working class around. Classes are so merged nowadays. Even saying Coucil estate isn't what it used to mean. I live in a council house, have bugger all (no car, flash electronics etc) whereas across the road in a council house is a family with three cars, 2 of them brand new!

2) I had god damn awful grades at GCSE, and I did 3 a levels and got straight As, but got into cambridge...Trust me, this class divide doesn't exist. If however 50% of the decent applicants are public school, then 50% of the undergrads will be public school!

3) I agree with Ruthie - I was a complete barstad at school. Felt properly untouchable (sounds so arrogant now) because I was one of the few people in my year actually destined for something decent in life. (I hope!)

4) I hate the phrase 'deserved a place'. Its way too subjective.

5) Original poster - moron. You sound like my ex girlfriend. Got straight A* and 1 A at GCSE then spent umpteen hundreds on endless appeals. Very petty. Crying foul only ever damages your dignity, and the reputation of an innocent interviewer.

6) And I would defend the bizarre methods of oxbridge interviewers. I mean, public school or state, you are seriously going to have to get your brain in gear if an interviewer asks you somathing wacky like to describe the cycles of the moon quarters.

Jamie
Brown Patrick Bateman
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#157
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#157
(Original post by foolfarian)
The fool has landed...
Wahey, another emigrant! I think I've successfully moved everyone from s-cool onto here. Don't think their admin's gonna be too pleased tomorrow morning...!
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Jamie
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#158
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#158
Dont get me wrong, love the place to bits, and am officially the longest serving member (and the instigator of ALOT of arguments...), but it seems to have gone down hill recently. A lot less intelligent arguments about politics, unis...anything really. Just people using really petty immature snipes at each other, and faking posts etc.
Jaime

'Guess whos back...back again...Jaimes back...tell a friend
lala
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#159
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#159
(Original post by foolfarian)
The fool has landed...
Looks like good scope for laying smackdowns round here, and lots of people onto the job already.

Anywho...
1) Read a comment further back on this monstrosity of a thread that doctors seem all to be middle classed. Personally I'm an unemployed-class background medic, but make no mistake, I'll be middle classed when I graduate. There are no owrking class doctors for gods sake. The title defies it!
If there's one thing I hate it's people banding the label working class around. Classes are so merged nowadays. Even saying Coucil estate isn't what it used to mean. I live in a council house, have bugger all (no car, flash electronics etc) whereas across the road in a council house is a family with three cars, 2 of them brand new!

2) I had god damn awful grades at GCSE, and I did 3 a levels and got straight As, but got into cambridge...Trust me, this class divide doesn't exist. If however 50% of the decent applicants are public school, then 50% of the undergrads will be public school!

3) I agree with Ruthie - I was a complete barstad at school. Felt properly untouchable (sounds so arrogant now) because I was one of the few people in my year actually destined for something decent in life. (I hope!)

4) I hate the phrase 'deserved a place'. Its way too subjective.

5) Original poster - moron. You sound like my ex girlfriend. Got straight A* and 1 A at GCSE then spent umpteen hundreds on endless appeals. Very petty. Crying foul only ever damages your dignity, and the reputation of an innocent interviewer.

6) And I would defend the bizarre methods of oxbridge interviewers. I mean, public school or state, you are seriously going to have to get your brain in gear if an interviewer asks you somathing wacky like to describe the cycles of the moon quarters.

Jamie
Ooh another oxbridge council estate kid! I'm all excited now.
Interesting what you said about the family opposite you having loads of cars. I hadnt really encountered much relative wealth where I live, instructive to read what you put about it. I suppose certain estates are different from others, must depend a lot on things like area of the country too I guess.
Some good views about the whole crying foul thing too.
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#160
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#160
(Original post by foolfarian)
Dont get me wrong, love the place to bits, and am officially the longest serving member (and the instigator of ALOT of arguments...), but it seems to have gone down hill recently. A lot less intelligent arguments about politics, unis...anything really. Just people using really petty immature snipes at each other, and faking posts etc.
Jaime

'Guess whos back...back again...Jaimes back...tell a friend
Indeed, s-cool's become terrible recently. Downhill with 1 or 2 posts a day. Last year it was very active with useful contributions from Martina & the likes. Now it's everyone vs Alexandra Harvey, or Sarah! correcting people's grammar.
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