okey
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is it important to be predicted a* in maths for these courses if you have a*aaa but with the a* in another related subject? and if you go on to achieve an a* in maths anyway?
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Helloworld_95
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It's up to the uni so we can't really give any concrete advise tbh. They could easily swap the offer to be A*XX with an A* in Physics, or they could give you an offer for A*XX with an A* in maths in which case if you got the A* in maths you would be let in, equally they could not give you any offer on the basis that you're not predicted A* in Maths or they could offer you A*XX with A* in maths then reject you if you achieve an A* in Physics but not in maths.If you're talking about a subject other than physics then they almost certainly won't allow you to substitute an A* in that for an A* in maths.

If I had to guess, Loughborough would probably let you in with A* in physics rather than maths, they might even let you in with AAA. I doubt you would see a similar situation at imperial though.
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okey
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(Original post by Helloworld_95)
It's up to the uni so we can't really give any concrete advise tbh. They could easily swap the offer to be A*XX with an A* in Physics, or they could give you an offer for A*XX with an A* in maths in which case if you got the A* in maths you would be let in, equally they could not give you any offer on the basis that you're not predicted A* in Maths or they could offer you A*XX with A* in maths then reject you if you achieve an A* in Physics but not in maths.If you're talking about a subject other than physics then they almost certainly won't allow you to substitute an A* in that for an A* in maths.

If I had to guess, Loughborough would probably let you in with A* in physics rather than maths, they might even let you in with AAA. I doubt you would see a similar situation at imperial though.
But what would the realistic chances of an offer be from say imperial, if all they have to go on is the ucas application?

Are predicted grades the core factor used to choose between applicants or is there some entrance exam? surely predicted grades would be inaccurate since schools have different policies on what they'll predict their students
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Helloworld_95
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(Original post by okey)
But what would the realistic chances of an offer be from say imperial, if all they have to go on is the ucas application?

Are predicted grades the core factor used to choose between applicants or is there some entrance exam? surely predicted grades would be inaccurate since schools have different policies on what they'll predict their students
Yes predicted grades plus a bit of personal statement will be what they go off of.

Maybe it's a bit unfair but why should Imperial care? The grades they ask for are 4,5,6 grades higher than what someone would really need to succeed in the course, and yet they still have tonnes of applicants to filter out, so they will take any reason to do so.
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Doones
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(Original post by okey)
But what would the realistic chances of an offer be from say imperial, if all they have to go on is the ucas application?

Are predicted grades the core factor used to choose between applicants or is there some entrance exam? surely predicted grades would be inaccurate since schools have different policies on what they'll predict their students
They also have an interview.
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okey
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(Original post by Helloworld_95)
Yes predicted grades plus a bit of personal statement will be what they go off of.

Maybe it's a bit unfair but why should Imperial care? The grades they ask for are 4,5,6 grades higher than what someone would really need to succeed in the course, and yet they still have tonnes of applicants to filter out, so they will take any reason to do so.
"why should imperial care" hahahaha
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(Original post by okey)
is it important to be predicted a* in maths for these courses if you have a*aaa but with the a* in another related subject? and if you go on to achieve an a* in maths anyway?
It would be better to be predicted an A* in the related subject that they want. If they're really specific like an A* in Maths then I think you would need to be predicted an A* in Maths.
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Helloworld_95
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(Original post by okey)
"why should imperial care" hahahaha
Really.

They have 50 other applicants with the same right to be there as you and 400 more which have a greater right to be there. Saying no to you doesn't affect them in the slightest.

The average number of A*s that a student has that is given an offer for engineering by Imperial is 3.2. You are just not close enough to that standard that someone could reasonably say they should give you a chance.
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Moonstruck16
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(Original post by Helloworld_95)
Really.

They have 50 other applicants with the same right to be there as you and 400 more which have a greater right to be there. Saying no to you doesn't affect them in the slightest.

The average number of A*s that a student has that is given an offer for engineering by Imperial is 3.2. You are just not close enough to that standard that someone could reasonably say they should give you a chance.
Lol early morning reality check here

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Helloworld_95
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(Original post by Moonstruck16)
Lol early morning reality check here

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I mean, there are plenty of engineering courses with similar reputations to Imperial, minus the brand name, that are much easier to get into. I don't get why OP would think it's an easy ride given that he almost certainly chose it because of the brand name lol.
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okey
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(Original post by Helloworld_95)
Really.

They have 50 other applicants with the same right to be there as you and 400 more which have a greater right to be there. Saying no to you doesn't affect them in the slightest.

The average number of A*s that a student has that is given an offer for engineering by Imperial is 3.2. You are just not close enough to that standard that someone could reasonably say they should give you a chance.
point being they might be saying no to a student who would do better, so they should care if they want the best students.
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Doones
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(Original post by okey)
point being they might be saying no to a student who would do better, so they should care if they want the best students.
The only practical filter for "better" is grades. Although they can and do look at context (eg deprived area, poor school) as well.



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(Original post by Doonesbury)
The only practical filter for "better" is grades. Although they can and do look at context (eg deprived area, poor school) as well.



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I think entrance tests would be more reliable as they eliminate different schools policies on predictions, which play a larger role since a levels have gone linear.

But the current system isn't too bad, just not perfect.
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Doones
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(Original post by okey)
I think entrance tests would be more reliable as they eliminate different schools policies on predictions, which play a larger role since a levels have gone linear.

But the current system isn't too bad, just not perfect.
That's over the top for most universities.

Loughborough offer to the vast majority of applicants (>75%), assuming they have solid predictions.
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(Original post by okey)
I think entrance tests would be more reliable as they eliminate different schools policies on predictions, which play a larger role since a levels have gone linear.

But the current system isn't too bad, just not perfect.
But then the entrance test will put off a bunch more of the potential applicants and you give an even greater advantage to those who can pass an exam.

If you said on the job or project experience then you would have had a point but you can't fight academia with more academia.
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(Original post by Helloworld_95)
But then the entrance test will put off a bunch more of the potential applicants and you give an even greater advantage to those who can pass an exam.

If you said on the job or project experience then you would have had a point but you can't fight academia with more academia.
what is the "exam" you're referring to, I'm talking only with regards to predicted grades.

And an proper entrance test made by a university is more representative of an applicants suitability for a course than a prediction based on school curriculum.
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Helloworld_95
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(Original post by okey)
what is the "exam" you're referring to, I'm talking only with regards to predicted grades.

And an proper entrance test made by a university is more representative of an applicants suitability for a course than a prediction based on school curriculum.
Predicted grades are based on how well the teacher expects the student to do in the exam, in other words, it's based on exam performance as the predictions are usually made based on AS exams or mock exams.

Maybe they would be, but it's extremely unlikely. The content that would make sense to test for is far out of the realm of A level content so you would end up with applicants essentially doing another A level worth of topics, some of which will be irrelevant for other courses or their career, for a chance at Imperial. It's never going to happen and if it did you would end up with some private schools coaching their students on the exam.
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(Original post by Helloworld_95)
Predicted grades are based on how well the teacher expects the student to do in the exam, in other words, it's based on exam performance as the predictions are usually made based on AS exams or mock exams.

Maybe they would be, but it's extremely unlikely. The content that would make sense to test for is far out of the realm of A level content so you would end up with applicants essentially doing another A level worth of topics, some of which will be irrelevant for other courses or their career, for a chance at Imperial. It's never going to happen and if it did you would end up with some private schools coaching their students on the exam.
My point is some schools predict students a grade higher than what they achieve in those exams, whilst some even predict a grade below- this is where the inaccuracy comes from.

And I mean tests like the ukcat that they use in medicine or any of the test oxbridge use. It just makes for a better admissions system so I'm sure they'd do it for every course if they could afford it.
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(Original post by okey)
My point is some schools predict students a grade higher than what they achieve in those exams, whilst some even predict a grade below- this is where the inaccuracy comes from.

And I mean tests like the ukcat that they use in medicine or any of the test oxbridge use. It just makes for a better admissions system so I'm sure they'd do it for every course if they could afford it.
But it's a non-issue. Lboro, and most "top" engineering universities offer to the majority of applicants. They have no need for extra tests.

Oxford and Cambridge are much more selective. And they use entrance tests. But Cambridge have only recently started doing this, primarily as a result of losing UMS data from most applicants.

Imperial is the odd one out in that they also have a fairly low offer rate so yes it might make sense for them to also use an entrance test, but frankly it's up to them and at the moment they don't have to. They do have interviews though. I guess it's not impossible that the could use PAT or ENGAA at some point in the future.

Universities know that predictions are often wrong. In fact most predictions are too high, not too low.

The system isn't perfect but it works pretty well.

Don't forget for medicine and Oxbridge the deadline is much earlier to allow for tests and interviews. If every course required a separate entrance exam it would mean all courses would have to meet the early deadline. That would be a nightmare for university admissions.

Essentially the entrance exams are the A-levels for most students.

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Helloworld_95
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(Original post by okey)
My point is some schools predict students a grade higher than what they achieve in those exams, whilst some even predict a grade below- this is where the inaccuracy comes from.

And I mean tests like the ukcat that they use in medicine or any of the test oxbridge use. It just makes for a better admissions system so I'm sure they'd do it for every course if they could afford it.
That's the school's fault rather than Imperial's, it's pretty much standard practice to predict the same grade or one higher if near the boundary.

The UKCAT is an awful example, amongst the medical schools that use it none of them can agree on its importance.The BMAT makes slightly more sense but if it was really that much better a predictor then all the medical schools would be using it because it costs less to take than the UKCAT.

(Original post by Doonesbury)
Don't forget for medicine and Oxbridge the deadline is much earlier to allow for tests and interviews.
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Actually the UKCAT is taken way before the UCAS deadline so that's not too much of an issue, interviews also start being held around mid-December (some unis don't start until February) so they wouldn't lose that much time for interviews if they pushed the deadline to the normal UCAS deadline, maybe give med applicants an extra month to decide on all their offers if the time is really needed?
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