NUS Disaffiliation

hah, i've just written a very snobby letter to NUS. i'm glad that you think they're a pointless waste of space. i can't believe that you even need to pay for an NUS card now.... however, i think that the solution, if you disagree with it's direction, is to stand and be elected as NUS rep and voice this at the conference. if your views are representative, they'll be agreed upon.

Reply 2

bluenoxid

OP

13

I'd love to, but I believe a sensible election where we specify what we want will say more to them than anything else. The yes campaign are bringing a big gun in.

Reply 3

Noxid

A week tommorrow, we are having an election at Newcastle University about disaffiliating but I need to sort out the campaign. I have several arguments, but I need more.

My arguments are

NUS is a costly addition for a small amount of Sabb training (we arent part of NUSSL?)
Its politically weak. This year conference was a joke where most motions were guilotined and could not be fully debated.
Its not representative of students. Its too left wing and arguing on subjects it doesnt need to (ultra vires)
Its too busy releasing press releases than getting back to the floor and engaging with students to get them motivated to campaign.
Students arent bothered.

Ok, I've been involved enough with NUS to answer some of these problems. Firstly, there are money issues with NUS, and the only way that it keeps afloat is through subs. It does represent students on a national level, and is the only body able to adequately do so. Withdrawing your affiliation thus cannot increase representation of students, it merely castrates it. When you say "it's too left wing", what you mean is that you don't agree with the politics of students nationally. Simply withdrawing is not the way to deal with this problem. Personally I think NOLS are too right-wing, but that's just me. On the subject of ultra vires, it really doesn't spend that much time on the matter, and actually since the '94 education act this is a very serious issue for CMs. Maybe you think this disgusting piece of tory legislation is a good thing (and it would match your seeming desire to stop students having a voice), but I personally think it's something NUS should have a stance on.

As for the problems of conference, I've only been once (although was elected twice, but couldn't go to the second due to finals/dissertation etc.), and of course it's often unsatisfactory. From compositing through to steering, the process is rather annoying, but it does get things done (albeit slowly). You must remember that your NUS Region has a National Council delegate who you can get to do stuff, and you can lobby NEC etc. These are very good ways to get things done without the hassle of conference.

As for getting back to grass roots, you are ridiculously misled if you think that disaffiliating will help this cause. Now stop being so silly.

MB

Reply 4

bright star

i can't believe that you even need to pay for an NUS card now....

You don't. I've been a massive critic of the NUS Extra card, but please, if you believe that NUS can make a difference, get yourself an NUS democracy card. They are free.

MB

Reply 5

we can't our guild won't let us have them!! i incidentally have one now. i spent so long arguing with our guild officers about it that they gave me a tenner to go away :biggrin:

Reply 6

Report your sabbs to NUS about it.

MB

Reply 7

musicbloke

Report your sabbs to NUS about it.

MB

about what? not offering democracy card? they said that as they now use student cards to denote eligibility to vote, there was no need for a democracy card. this view doesn't sound reportable to me. is it?

Reply 8

bright star

about what? not offering democracy card? they said that as they now use student cards to denote eligibility to vote, there was no need for a democracy card. this view doesn't sound reportable to me. is it?

They're supposed to offer both Extra and Democracy cards if students want them. Not that NUS will do anything about it, given that their pilot of the Extra scheme in 2004/2005 in the North West didn't include the democracy card and pissed off loads of students.

MB

Reply 9

oh well thanks for that! i'll give NUS a ring then.

Reply 10

bluenoxid

OP

13

musicbloke

Ok, I've been involved enough with NUS to answer some of these problems. Firstly, there are money issues with NUS, and the only way that it keeps afloat is through subs. It does represent students on a national level, and is the only body able to adequately do so. Withdrawing your affiliation thus cannot increase representation of students, it merely castrates it. When you say "it's too left wing", what you mean is that you don't agree with the politics of students nationally. Simply withdrawing is not the way to deal with this problem. Personally I think NOLS are too right-wing, but that's just me. On the subject of ultra vires, it really doesn't spend that much time on the matter, and actually since the '94 education act this is a very serious issue for CMs. Maybe you think this disgusting piece of tory legislation is a good thing (and it would match your seeming desire to stop students having a voice), but I personally think it's something NUS should have a stance on.

As for the problems of conference, I've only been once (although was elected twice, but couldn't go to the second due to finals/dissertation etc.), and of course it's often unsatisfactory. From compositing through to steering, the process is rather annoying, but it does get things done (albeit slowly). You must remember that your NUS Region has a National Council delegate who you can get to do stuff, and you can lobby NEC etc. These are very good ways to get things done without the hassle of conference.

As for getting back to grass roots, you are ridiculously misled if you think that disaffiliating will help this cause. Now stop being so silly.

MB

You are telling me that £53,000 is good value for money for a few training sessions and a poor quality national body.

It fails to represent students effectively. Constant press releases are doing nothing when the NUS fails to market and handle itself effectively. Withdrawing our affiliation will help motivate it to restructure as tightening finances slowly tighten their grip. Its had decades to restructure yet it seems to be going through the slowest process possible where its damaging any democracy and prioritising optional commercial ventures. All in the name of students. Because its the only national body of students it seems to be a constant referral for students, but those who are apathetic of their union for a whole host of reasons (including in the main, part time work and poorly marketed unions) are not adequately represented. The NUS takes stances which do not represent the views of the majority of students. Just look at what they did during the AUT strike. Its rotten to the core.

The NUS can have a stance on things that effect students, but to argue on issues that students have little reason. Provide resources but dont waste time debating on it, as it will be up to individual unions on how much its campaigned on.

Disaffiliating will allow us to concentrate resources on our grass roots campaigns instead of funding that farce.

Reply 11

L i b

19

musicbloke

It does represent students on a national level, and is the only body able to adequately do so. Withdrawing your affiliation thus cannot increase representation of students, it merely castrates it.

In Scotland, CHESS (the Coalition of Higher Education Students in Scotland), formerly the Scottish Ancients Group, represented the disaffiliated unis far better than the NUS ever did and far more in tune with their students' wishes. They are not in a unique position and all that is required is a few notable universities in England to do the same and to unite based on mutual interests.

Simply withdrawing is not the way to deal with this problem.

Yes it is. The NUS presents a united front where none exists.

Reply 12

L i b

19

To be entirely honest, I have no idea why any union would want to be affiliated with the NUS. It's a useless organisation full of self-serving hypocrites.

Reply 13

Wise One

11

Noxid

I'd love to, but I believe a sensible election where we specify what we want will say more to them than anything else. The yes campaign are bringing a big gun in.

Approach the union, and complain. Outside campaigners shouldn't be allowed to meddle in what is, essentially, a 'domestic' referendum.

Reply 14

PQ

PS Reviewer

21

Noxid

You are telling me that £53,000 is good value for money for a few training sessions and a poor quality national body.

IIRC the sabbatical training offered by the NUS isn't included in the affiliation fee - it has to be paid for on top of the affiliation fee.

And if you're looking for arguments the main reason most students want to remain affiliated isn't for any logical reason like MBs - it's for the discounts. If you can get local retailers to guarantee that they will continue to accept non NUS cards for student discounts then you'll be in a much stronger position.

Also you'll need to get the university/council to guarantee that they wont simply reduce the block grant to the Union in response to disaffiliation (I'm pretty sure that either Bristol or Durham's governing council stated that if their union disaffiliated then they wouldn't be financially better off because the university would reduce their block grant by the affiliation fee)

Edit: I'd also find out how much the NUS paid and how many tickets the Exec got for their presence at Glastonbury this year. There were posters all over the leftfield, a massive camping area set aside for NUS representatives and no NUS reps in sight :frown:

Reply 15

bluenoxid

OP

13

It turns out they have already decided who is going to do what (the yes and no campaign). Sadly its been lumped in with our union week. What peeves me off is that our student newspaper has put the yes and no campaigns towards the back of the paper.

Oh and an interview with the smug Gemma Tumelty on page 5.

Does not surprise me at all, we are staying in.

I cannot confirm if the uni pays the block grant or not, but thats a good question to ask. It was the reason it was postponed and no one has mentioned it.

Reply 16