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Reply 1

cos^2(x)-sin^2(x)=cos(2x)

and watch out for a minus sign, which I think you've got wrong. [line 8]

Reply 2

You have d/dx (1/2 sin x cos x) = 1/2 (cos^2 x - sin^2 x), and then have decided that that actually meant 1/2 (cos^2 x + sin^2 x). :wink: Sign error. Nothing major.

Reply 3

nota bene
cos^2(x)-sin^2(x)=cos(2x)

Unnecessary (and indeed not very useful), no?

Reply 4

generalebriety
Unnecessary (and indeed not very useful), no?

YES...

*notes to self - read the whole question idiot*

Reply 5

nota bene
cos^2(x)-sin^2(x)=cos(2x)


If I use this, I get:
(1/2)cos(2x)
so how would I get to sin2xsin^2 x?

generalebriety
You have d/dx (1/2 sin x cos x) = 1/2 (cos^2 x - sin^2 x), and then have decided that that actually meant 1/2 (cos^2 x + sin^2 x). :wink: Sign error. Nothing major.


huh? I didn't write 1/2 (cos^2 x + sin^2 x) anywhere! And I don't think any of the signs are wrong.

Reply 6

downuno
huh? I didn't write 1/2 (cos^2 x + sin^2 x) anywhere! And I don't think any of the signs are wrong.

No, you didn't actually write it, but you made an equivalent sign error by writing that -1/2 (cos^2 x - sin^2 x) = -1/2 cos^2 x - 1/2 sin^2 x.

Reply 7

downuno
If I use this, I get:
(1/2)cos(2x)
so how would I get to sin2xsin^2 x?

I I said in my previous post, I didn't read the question properly, and this is bad advice from my part, apologies.



huh? I didn't write 1/2 (cos^2 x + sin^2 x) anywhere! And I don't think any of the signs are wrong.

Fact: They are. I've even told you in which line!

Reply 8

Its even easier to say:
2y=xsinxcosx 2y=x-sinxcosx
2y=x1/2sin2x 2y=x-1/2sin2x
[sin2x]

THEN differentiate from there...

Reply 9

fusionskd
Its even easier to say:
2y=x-sinxcosx
2y=x-1/2sin2x
[sin2x]

Same to you as to nota: this might make it neater, but it makes it no easier to differentiate, and it just makes it less obvious how to proceed once you've differentiated.

Much as I sympathise, hitting everything with random trig identities isn't always the way to go. :wink:

Reply 10

generalebriety
Same to you as to nota: this might make it neater, but it makes it no easier to differentiate, and it just makes it less obvious how to proceed once you've differentiated.

Much as I sympathise, hitting everything with random trig identities isn't always the way to go. :wink:


But surely its easier:

Spoiler



No product rule required...lol

Reply 11

I'm kinda dumb *boink*

But anyways before you differentiate, you should use sin2x=2sinxcosx\sin 2x = 2 \sin x \cos x, and after you differentiate you should use sin2x=1cos2x2\sin^2 x=\frac{1-cos2x}{2} (which is just cos2x=12sin2x\cos2x = 1 - 2 \sin^2 x rearranged).

Reply 12

dydx\frac{dy}{dx}

=12(12cos2x12sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} - ( \frac{1}{2}cos^2 x - \frac{1}{2}sin^2 x)

=1212cos2x+12sin2x= \frac{1}{2} - \frac{1}{2}cos^2 x + \frac{1}{2}sin^2 x

=12(1cos2x+sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} (1 - cos^2 x + sin^2 x)

=12(11)= \frac{1}{2} (1 - 1)

=12(0)= \frac{1}{2} (0)

=0= 0

Now I'm completely confused.

Reply 13

downuno
dydx\frac{dy}{dx}

=12(12cos2x12sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} - ( \frac{1}{2}cos^2 x - \frac{1}{2}sin^2 x)

=1212cos2x+12sin2x= \frac{1}{2} - \frac{1}{2}cos^2 x + \frac{1}{2}sin^2 x

=12(1cos2x+sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} (1 - cos^2 x + sin^2 x)

=12(11)= \frac{1}{2} (1 - 1)

=12(0)= \frac{1}{2} (0)

=0= 0

Now I'm completely confused.


This part is wrong:
=12(1cos2x+sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} (1 - cos^2 x + sin^2 x)

=12(11)= \frac{1}{2} (1 - 1)

Remember
1cos2x=sin2x 1 - cos^2 x = sin^2 x

Reply 14

downuno
dydx\frac{dy}{dx}

=12(12cos2x12sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} - ( \frac{1}{2}cos^2 x - \frac{1}{2}sin^2 x)

=1212cos2x+12sin2x= \frac{1}{2} - \frac{1}{2}cos^2 x + \frac{1}{2}sin^2 x

=12(1cos2x+sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} (1 - cos^2 x + sin^2 x)

=12(11)= \frac{1}{2} (1 - 1)

It's a -cos^2 x, not a +cos^2 x, so it doesn't add to sin^2 x to give you 1. (Put it this way: 3 + 4 = 7, but 1 - 3 + 4 isn't 1 - 7.)

1 - cos^2 x = sin^2 x, and then the answer comes straight out.

Reply 15

Ancient Runes
I'm kinda dumb *boink*

But anyways before you differentiate, you should use sin2x=2sinxcosx\sin 2x = 2 \sin x \cos x, and after you differentiate you should use sin2x=1cos2x2\sin^2 x=\frac{1-cos2x}{2} (which is just cos2x=12sin2x\cos2x = 1 - 2 \sin^2 x rearranged).


Yup, like I said. Its not required but it helps doesnt it

Reply 16

fusionskd
2y=x - 1/2sin2x
2dy/dx=1-cos2x
dy/dx=1/2(1-cos2x) and from [cos2x] or using a standard result:
dy/dx=sin^2(x}

No product rule required...lol

No, but the chain rule's required, which is about as taxing as the product rule, and it means you have to apply the same trig identity twice, once forwards, once backwards. Seems silly to me.

Reply 17

generalebriety
No, but the chain rule's required, which is about as taxing as the product rule, and it means you have to apply the same trig identity twice, once forwards, once backwards. Seems silly to me.


Take another look at his working, and tell me taking the derivative of 12x14sin2x\frac{1}{2}x-\frac{1}{4} \sin 2x is half as bad.

Reply 18

generalebriety
No, but the chain rule's required, which is about as taxing as the product rule, and it means you have to apply the same trig identity twice, once forwards, once backwards. Seems silly to me.


Chain rule maybe but its the kind of differentiation that can be done in your head without the chain rule, once your used to it:
d (Sin ax)/dx = aCos ax..simply.
Surely the identitys are there to use? It seems silly not to use them, even if it has to be applied twice, the final result is what counts.

Reply 19

dydx\frac{dy}{dx}

=12(12cos2x12sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} - ( \frac{1}{2}cos^2 x - \frac{1}{2}sin^2 x)

=1212cos2x+12sin2x= \frac{1}{2} - \frac{1}{2}cos^2 x + \frac{1}{2}sin^2 x

=12(1cos2x+sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} (1 - cos^2 x + sin^2 x)

=12(sin2x+sin2x)= \frac{1}{2} (sin^2 x + sin^2 x)

=12(2)(sin2x)= \frac{1}{2}(2)(sin^2 x)

=sin2x= sin^2 x

k good stuff, thanks y'all.

Is there anything in particular that I should learn from this thread? Anything that I shouldn't be doing in differentiation / trig ?
Or is it just that I should be especially aware of signs and brackets.