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B1210 - Northern Ireland (Abortion) Bill 2017 Watch

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    Strong Nay. I both abhor the moral implications that arise from the subject of abortion, and the idea that Northern Ireland can't make its own policies as an independent nation.
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    (Original post by Joel 96)
    Strong Nay. I both abhor the moral implications that arise from the subject of abortion, and the idea that Northern Ireland can't make its own policies as an independent nation.
    Northern Ireland is hardly an independent nation. It relies heavily on our subsidies and would truly struggle without us.

    If we are to treat Northern Ireland as an "independent nation", to please the "powers" that be, then giving them access to a free medical service is an act of charity.

    We shouldn't let women suffer the burden of an unwanted child and let that child suffer the possibility of neglect and abuse (or worse), just so that we can please the devolved assembly. This is a humanitarian issue. There's no denying that if thousands of unwanted children are born, then some will have their human rights breached. Letting that go on while we worry about Northern Irish politicians is morally wrong.
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    (Original post by Cognition!)
    Northern Ireland is hardly an independent nation. It relies heavily on our subsidies and would truly struggle without us.

    If we are to treat Northern Ireland as an "independent nation", to please the "powers" that be, then giving them access to a free medical service is an act of charity.

    We shouldn't let women suffer the burden of an unwanted child and let that child suffer the possibility of neglect and abuse (or worse), just so that we can please the devolved assembly. This is a humanitarian issue. There's no denying that if thousands of unwanted children are born, then some will have their human rights breached. Letting that go on while we worry about Northern Irish politicians is morally wrong.
    By or worse do you mean the possibility of a parent ending that child's life?

    So should the human race stop reproducing because some will have their human rights breached?
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    By or worse do you mean the possibility of a parent ending that child's life?

    So should the human race stop reproducing because some will have their human rights breached?
    Some of those children will be killed later in life if not by abortion. That's a crueller fate than a painless (for the child, before nerve development) abortion during the first semester. There have been cases of mothers denied abortion being driven to suicide- again, a worse fate for both mother and child. The legalisation of abortion in America led to a fall in homicides a couple of decades later.

    And as a matter of fact, overpopulation does need tackling. If reproduction levels fell, it would be easier to maintain human rights.


    It's undeniable that there must be reform to some extent- even if only to minors and rape victims. The Northern Irish are UK citizens and deserve the same rights as anyone in Great Britain. After all, the service is far from mandatory.
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    (Original post by Cognition!)
    Some of those children will be killed later in life if not by abortion. That's a crueller fate than a painless (for the child, before nerve development) abortion during the first semester. There have been cases of mothers denied abortion being driven to suicide- again, a worse fate for both mother and child. The legalisation of abortion in America led to a fall in homicides a couple of decades later.

    And as a matter of fact, overpopulation does need tackling. If reproduction levels fell, it would be easier to maintain human rights.


    It's undeniable that there must be reform to some extent- even if only to minors and rape victims. The Northern Irish are UK citizens and deserve the same rights as anyone in Great Britain. After all, the service is far from mandatory.
    If they want it they could vote for a party who wants it, this bill would likely lead to at the very least huge protests if not huge political violence, the debate isn't really about abortion it is about devolution should Northern Ireland have it or not?
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    If they want it they could vote for a party who wants it, this bill would likely lead to at the very least huge protests if not huge political violence, the debate isn't really about abortion it is about devolution should Northern Ireland have it or not?
    Look at the bill. Is it a bill about devolution? No, and anyone's welcome to make one. The bill is about abortion. Abortion is a human right. As a developed country, we should do all in our power to increase its accessibility throughout the world.

    If we were doing this for women in Africa who would otherwise be unable to access the service, then it would not be viewed through this political facade. It would be viewed less as a political statement, and more as foreign aid. Let's keep it that way.

    Think of the people; not the state's religiously clouded views.
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    (Original post by Cognition!)
    Look at the bill. Is it a bill about devolution? No, and anyone's welcome to make one. The bill is about abortion. Abortion is a human right. As a developed country, we should do all in our power to increase its accessibility throughout the world.

    If we were doing this for women in Africa who would otherwise be unable to access the service, then it would not be viewed through this political facade. It would be viewed less as a political statement, and more as foreign aid. Let's keep it that way.
    This bill is about devolution
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    This bill is about devolution
    It doesn't mention the matter of devolution once.

    It is the "Northern Ireland (Abortion) Bill 2017".

    It talks solely about abortion for the entirety of its length.

    This bill is about abortion; devolution is a related matter.
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    (Original post by Cognition!)
    It doesn't mention the matter of devolution once.

    It is the "Northern Ireland (Abortion) Bill 2017".

    It talks solely about abortion for the entirety of its length.

    This bill is about abortion; devolution is a related matter.
    Abortion is a devolved matter this bill is saying when we don't like what you decide we will take that power and do what we want that isn't actually devolution, this bill removes part of devolution
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Abortion is a devolved matter this bill is saying when we don't like what you decide we will take that power and do what we want that isn't actually devolution, this bill removes part of devolution
    I hope you acknowledge that the Northern Ireland Assembly was elected in 1998.

    We are revising legislation from 1967.
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    Abstain.
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    (Original post by Cognition!)
    I hope you acknowledge that the Northern Ireland Assembly was elected in 1998.

    We are revising legislation from 1967.
    I hope you know that this is a devolved power you want to get rid of and it will not go down well in Northern Ireland

    This revises the 1998 act

    (1) Add to Schedule 2, Northern Ireland Act 1998: (1) "23 Abortion law and policy."
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I hope you know that this is a devolved power you want to get rid of and it will not go down well in Northern Ireland
    If it doesn't go down well in Northern Ireland, then so be it. If they want to leave us, then they can do so- however, they will recognise that the sheer amount of benefits they receive from being part of the UK are worth keeping us happy for.
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    (Original post by Cognition!)
    If it doesn't go down well in Northern Ireland, then so be it. If they want to leave us, then they can do so- however, they will recognise that the sheer amount of benefits they receive from being part of the UK are worth keeping us happy for.
    So screw devolution when it doesn't go the way you want it am I right?

    Are you aware of the history of Northern Ireland?
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    (Original post by Cognition!)
    If it doesn't go down well in Northern Ireland, then so be it. If they want to leave us, then they can do so- however, they will recognise that the sheer amount of benefits they receive from being part of the UK are worth keeping us happy for.
    Keeping us happy? I can't quite believe that is used as an argument for stripping away a nation's sovereignty over an issue.

    It is not acceptable for Great Britain to get involved in abortion policy in Northern Ireland any more than it should get involved in the abortion policy of the Republic of Ireland, France, Germany, the United States or anywhere else outside Great Britain. It has voluntarily given away the right to do so – it's not on loan to the Assembly to be taken away further down the line if the Assembly doesn't make the decisions Great Britain wants it to make. Devolution doesn't work like that.
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    I can imagine the Reverend Ian Paisley, were he alive today, saying in a loud voice

    'Ulster says No'

    to this Bill
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    (Original post by Connor27)
    I support the sentiment of the bill, in that abortion should be universally legal the world over, it is basic bodily autonomy after all,
    Wasn't this the party calling the tories Blue labour?
    Really makes you think.

    🤔🤔
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    (Original post by Dench,x,Kid)
    Wasn't this the party calling the tories Blue labour?
    Really makes you think.

    🤔🤔
    You mean the libertarian party that doesn't pretend to be socially conservative?
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    You mean the libertarian party that doesn't pretend to be socially conservative?
    So you're saying your party isn't socially conservative?
    Only economically conservative?

    Then your pretty much the tories except slightly fiscally smarter?
    But then we should still vote for you over the tories because you're honest about not being socially conservative?
    It's the honesty that counts, right?
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    (Original post by Dench,x,Kid)
    So you're saying your party isn't socially conservative?
    Only economically conservative?

    Then your pretty much the tories except slightly fiscally smarter?
    But then we should still vote for you over the tories because you're honest about not being socially conservative?
    It's the honesty that counts, right?
    The tories here are economically centrist and liberal
 
 
 
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