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Vehicle collides with pedestrians in London Finsbury Park Watch

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    (Original post by glad-he-ate-her)
    Did I say we shouldn't condemn them?
    All I said is the white people who say this was revenge are sympathising with acts of terror.
    And I am suggesting they may be trying to understand the motives behind the attack. What has race got to do with such thoughts?
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    (Original post by glad-he-ate-her)
    Did I say we shouldn't condemn them?
    All I said is the white people who say this was revenge are sympathising with acts of terror.
    It depends on what emotion accompanies the supposition that this was an act of revenge.

    If it's congratulatory ('yay, serves the Muslims right'), then of course it's terror sympathy. If it's condemnatory, then obviously it's not. There's a fairly basic distinction between trying to pinpoint one's motivations (which, in this case, could the the perpetrator believing that he was committing an act of revenge), and a normative statement based on those actions ('revenge is good').


    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    The person who did this was a WHITE MAN. This was an Islamophobic terrorist attack.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: Islamophobia is a much bigger problem in the UK than so-called "Islamic terrorism".
    I'm surprised ISOC could only get 31 people to like this comment.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    And I am suggesting they may be trying to understand the motives behind the attack. What has race got to do with such thoughts?
    Yeah if they phrase it in a way like perhaps in the terrorists deluded mind he was carrying out a revenge fantasy but if they support his actions and applaud what he did, then theyre sympathisers
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    (Original post by Meany Pie)
    Would you like to tell that to the 23 families of the dead and the 119 injured of the Manchester attack or the 1 family of the dead and 8 injured in the attack this morning?
    Ignoring the stupid you quoted for a second.. but this was also just as stupid

    (Original post by QE2)
    I assume that everyone's default position is one of condemnation - why wouldn't it be?
    The point was about those who explicitly refuse to condemn such events, even when asked, whatever their political or religious position.

    BTW, you can find people who explicitly refused to condemn the Manchester and London attacks on ISOC, right here on TSR.
    Who? Tag them if you don't mind
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    (Original post by SMEGGGY)
    She made a mistake. She's rectified it I'd say. We're talking about her managing of the incident today nothing else.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Oh come on now. She refused to apologise for her lack of compassion on Newsnight. You can forgive her all you like, there are some 'mistakes' that go too far. I don't want a wooden robot as my Prime Minister. If someone who wants to be my national leader thinks they need to be told to visit the victims of a tragic event like that fire, they lack one of skills I deem required to be a leader. That is to show your damn humanity in the face of adversity. Her standing out the steps of 10 downing street reading a speech is basic. Anyone can do that. So no, I will not clap that crap. I push for my leaders to be the best, not praise them for doing something that is standard.
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    (Original post by UnknownRoyalist)
    Ignoring the stupid you quoted for a second.. but this was also just as stupid
    Stupid statements, stupid responses.
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    (Original post by Meany Pie)
    Stupid statements, stupid responses.
    Except you meant it, the same way he/she did. Doesn't work here soz.
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    (Original post by UnknownRoyalist)
    Except you meant it, the same way he/she did. Doesn't work here soz.
    I didn't put any effort in, first thing that popped into my head.
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    Very sad incident. London has gone through a lot recently.
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    (Original post by glad-he-ate-her)
    Yeah if they phrase it in a way like perhaps in the terrorists deluded mind he was carrying out a revenge fantasy but if they support his actions and applaud what he did, then theyre sympathisers
    I think that distinction is very important. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Let us not forget that after 9/11 people all around the world were celebrating what they felt was the US finally getting some of its own medicine. And when we then retaliated with our policy of shock and awe I am under no illusions that people sat in their front rooms watching the trail of destruction unfold on their TVs some were feeling that Sadam and Iraq were getting what they deserved.

    Who were the terrorist sympathisers? The people celebrating 9/11, or the UK / US viewers punching the air at our fighters bombing Baghdad?

    Personally, I would say neither. We are all emotional people and depending on which side of the fence you stand would depend on whether you judged someone to be sympathising with the enemy or supporting a movement to get justice by any means.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I think that distinction is very important. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Let us not forget that after 9/11 people all around the world were celebrating what they felt was the US finally getting some of its own medicine. And when we then retaliated with our policy of shock and awe I am under no illusions that people sat in their front rooms watching the trail of destruction unfold on their TVs some were feeling that Sadam and Iraq were getting what they deserved.

    Who were the terrorist sympathisers? The people celebrating 9/11, or the UK / US viewers punching the air at our fighters bombing Baghdad?
    Exactly, both sides are terrorists in the eyes of each other. But in any case, you can see that ISIS cause more deliberate harm and tortures more than the the US army ( thought theyre not innocent) and so there is a clear worse side there.
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    (Original post by glad-he-ate-her)
    Exactly, both sides are terrorists in the eyes of each other. But in any case, you can see that ISIS cause more deliberate harm and tortures more than the the US army ( thought theyre not innocent) and so there is a clear worse side there.
    No. I don't see that difference. The only difference I see is that the US atrocities are sanctioned by a government recognised by the world. Let us not forget that the US still presides over Guantanamo Bay where inmates have been incarcerated for 16 years without charge or access to any form of legal process.

    The US and UK invaded Iraq on the back of intelligence that was found to be incorrect and overstated and proceeded to commit atrocities such as Abu Ghraib prison amongst others. Some have estimated that as many as 100,000 Iraqi civilians died during the Iraq war. And that is just our conduct in the Iraq war. Since then, we have screwed up in one way or another, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt and Syria.

    And we wonder why terrorists see us as a legitimate target.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Muslims are the largest victims of terrorism in the UK?
    They are most definitely an 'at risk' group for hate crimes/attacks. I'm sure the studies of many think tanks show a general trend. And let's not forget they are the number one victims of terrorism abroad,literally every single day.
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    Hatred doesn't do anything just makes things worse


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    (Original post by mashbbk)
    Well it is different if you condemn the actions but aren't public with your condemnation, and actually not condemning the action.

    Finding Muslims for example who didn't condemn the London Bridge attacks would have been like finding a needle in a haystack (unless you lived in Syria). But there were some who criticised Muslims for not going out and marching for example (although I know there were some demonstrations/walks from various groups).

    I am not going to ask you guys to go publicly condemn the guy though, but some were asking just that of Muslims (and to be fair a lot of them did, including many scholars). Sorry but Isis won't change their mind because we called them terrorists. His post was surrounding the (in my opinion) unfair criticism of Muslims.
    The reason why people point out Muslims not marching is indicative of underlying passivism towards terrorism is because they are super quick to March and protest for even the slightest pathetic thing they don't agree with (Cartoons anyone)

    Even the few where they have protested terrorism, they haven't actually protested terrorism they have usually defended and promoted Islam instead "Islam means peace" "Terrorism has no religion"

    It's a horribly selfish thing to do and looks terrible to anyone with a brain

    If thousands of Muslims can voiciferously protest against poppies and cartoon drawings we expect them to protest and be vocal against their fellow Muslims massacring our children
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    They are most definitely an 'at risk' group for hate crimes/attacks. I'm sure the studies of many think tanks show a general trend. And let's not forget they are the number one victims of terrorism abroad,literally every single day.
    How many Muslim specific terrorist attacks with fatalities have there been in this country?
    If you talk about Muslins abroad then isnt that largely muslims killing muslims?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    How many Muslim specific terrorist attacks with fatalities have there been in this country?
    If you talk about Muslins abroad then isnt that largely muslims killing muslims?
    I'm also talking about hate crimes,I'm sure there's been plenty of those stories. Please don't downplay it. Enough is enough. Also antisemitic hatred. Search plenty of case studies online/think tank studies etc. More needs to be done to combat islamophobia which is low key racism also,let's not delude ourselves this is all about religion alone.

    You'd be suprised about who's actually funding these terrorists abroad in the first place. Actually it shouldnt be so suprising
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I'm also talking about hate crimes,I'm sure there's been plenty of those stories. Please don't downplay it. Enough is enough. Also antisemitic hatred. Search plenty of case studies online/think tank studies etc. More needs to be done to combat islamophobia which is low key racism also,let's not delude ourselves this is all about religion alone.

    You'd be suprised about who's actually funding these terrorists abroad in the first place. Actually it shouldnt be so suprising
    Well if you want to cast yourself as the main victim, then go ahead. This seems a terrible country to live in.

    Which is the best country for a Muslim to live in if its so terrible in the UK?
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Well if you want to cast yourself as the main victim, then go ahead. This seems a terrible country to live in.

    Which is the best country for a Muslim to live in if its so terrible in the UK?
    I'm not a Muslim so I don't know what you mean by 'cast yourself as the main victim' don't be make assumptions.

    And secondly, I was pointing out that the number of hate crimes towards Muslims have increased,why are you getting all agitated? It's just a fact. So have most people in the media been saying today. Where have I said it's terrible in the UK? Point it out please,i was just stating facts. if you don't want to accept it that's yo own problem,ya dig?
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    At least the police are treating it for what it is, a terrorist attack.
 
 
 
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