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B1211 - Education Reform Bill Watch

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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    When the government is going to have control over the standards the new independent schools need to meet, the teachers employed, the tests sat, and the fees, the schools are not independent schools but academies as we have today. The beauty of independent schools is the lack of government influence over them, introducing that government influence will lower the quality of independent schools.

    The spreadsheet is not law because it is not contained in the bill, and setting regional limits on fees is a unworkable system removing the independence from independent schools.
    The idea is not that the government will control who is employed; if an adequate plan is laid out then they will be free to run the school in the way they see fit. Of course, funding will be withdrawn if they fail to do so successfully. To do otherwise would be a betrayal to the taxpayer.

    These schools would not have any less control over the tests sat than currently independent schools do - examinations defined and controlled by the state have been a part of our education system for years past and it would be irresponsible to suggest otherwise. We are not suggesting they will not be able to set their own tests too, whether that be to judge who goes to their secondary school or as additional qualifications on top of GCSEs.

    Finally, it would be ridiculous to suggest that these schools should be able to charge as much as they like and that the government would fund it. If they wish to start a school and charge as much as they like, the government would not stop them from doing so under this bill, but would not provide funding for such an endeavour.

    What is stated in the spreadsheet should have been in the bill and that will be worked on.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    IF the state has oversight then the state should control it. Basically what you are proposing is the system we have now but with individuals who have no education background able to run a school.
    The bill stated that individuals must have educational background, and current leadership teams will not be replaced without good reason (i.e. the school is failing.)
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    (Original post by Saunders16)
    The bill stated that individuals must have educational background, and current leadership teams will not be replaced without good reason (i.e. the school is failing.)
    no it said they would be favoured and still isn't a change from nationalised
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    (Original post by Inexorably)
    Does the South West really have the lowest current funding per pupil? Wow. Does that mean I'm dumb af

    I can't vote but I support this, I was going to complain you hadn't specified what amount certain incomes would need to pay but you have the spreadsheet of course. My one quail would be to ensure that standards are rigorously maintained to and that children aren't being taught poorly at the expensive of money-making.

    However I do belive there might be certain circumstances where the state may need to manage a school - e.g. in very rural areas with poor transportation costs, as it's unlikely any private venture will fund them.

    Also not so certain about maximum of 5 per individual. If that individual runs 5 all within a certain mile radius they have thus generated a monopoly. So alternatively either make the maximum 1 or I guess add rules for distance between schools.

    But yea, good.
    I hope you will be happy to know that the South West will now be on a par with the South East, the East of England and the East Midlands if this bill was to pass

    Yes, the spreadsheet has been a common criticism and we will seek to address that.

    The goal is that all schools will be reformed by 2022, and as I have stated multiple times: schools will only be handed to investors if the current leadership are either not interested in continuing, or failing. Therefore, rural areas would not be an issue.

    You make a good point about the '5 per individual' policy. Again, all I can say is that we will look at that.

    Thank you, sir, for being the first somewhat supportive person
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    (Original post by Saunders16)
    The idea is not that the government will control who is employed; if an adequate plan is laid out then they will be free to run the school in the way they see fit. Of course, funding will be withdrawn if they fail to do so successfully. To do otherwise would be a betrayal to the taxpayer.

    These schools would not have any less control over the tests sat than currently independent schools do - examinations defined and controlled by the state have been a part of our education system for years past and it would be irresponsible to suggest otherwise. We are not suggesting they will not be able to set their own tests too, whether that be to judge who goes to their secondary school or as additional qualifications on top of GCSEs.

    Finally, it would be ridiculous to suggest that these schools should be able to charge as much as they like and that the government would fund it. If they wish to start a school and charge as much as they like, the government would not stop them from doing so under this bill, but would not provide funding for such an endeavour.

    What is stated in the spreadsheet should have been in the bill and that will be worked on.
    It is the same thing, the government will be able to manipulate what an adequate plan is, for example, an adequate plan could be changed to include the need to meet quotas for diversity, have terms at certain times, sitting certain exams, follow a curriculum or have policies in place approved by the government. Having requirements on all of those things by having a list of specification to meet in a plan is the same as reducing independence for independent schools. This bill forces independents primary schools to sit a test which is not the case with SATS, forcing independent schools to sit examinations does not happen as it is.
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    (Original post by Aph)
    no it said they would be favoured and still isn't a change from nationalised
    That will be reworded next time.

    I understand you are coming from the perspective of the left but is there anything that could change your mind (within reason)?
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    (Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
    It is the same thing, the government will be able to manipulate what an adequate plan is, for example, an adequate plan could be changed to include the need to meet quotas for diversity, have terms at certain times, sitting certain exams, follow a curriculum or have policies in place approved by the government. Having requirements on all of those things by having a list of specification to meet in a plan is the same as reducing independence for independent schools. This bill forces independents primary schools to sit a test which is not the case with SATS, forcing independent schools to sit examinations does not happen as it is.
    What defines an 'adequate plan' will be explained when the bill is submitted again.

    I will not yield on the issue of tests. I believe that it misrepresents the ability of children and stops schools from being able to target learning to them, which SATs allow them to do.

    Despite this difference, I hope you will be able to support the second version of this bill.
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    (Original post by That'sGreat)
    Why?
    Because I object to academic selection for reasons I have gone over several times in the past.
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    (Original post by Saunders16)
    That will be reworded next time.

    I understand you are coming from the perspective of the left but is there anything that could change your mind (within reason)?
    no
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    Nay. First, pivate interaction in schooling is a terrible idea and only isolates children of the rich in the best schools. Furthermore, selective schooling has provably failed, causing an overall dimunition in academic standards. I used to support selective schooling, then I looked at the evidence.
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    Nay. I agree with most of the purpose but the implementation is bad, it's not formatted good and the income brackets are not clear at all... A bit lazy? Those tests should not be compulsory or else it kind of limits parent choice. 1(4) and 1(6) I find very hard to distinguish between. You also haven't costed the exams you're forcing primary school students to take, I'm pretty sure printing thousands of pieces of paper is not free.

    Let's hope the second reading is much better.
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    (Original post by That'sGreat)
    Why don't you like the idea? They can only make a set amount of £225 per pupil, that is the only possible source of income
    (Original post by Kyx)
    They'll be there for the money, not the education of the children


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    That's £300,000 for a large school, or perhaps over £1m for a 'federation' per year. There are over 100,000 school children per year in London, so over a million in total. So that is £225m taken out of the system per year, even before private contracts for school meals, books from designated suppliers etc. That is just in London.
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    (Original post by barnetlad)
    That's £300,000 for a large school, or perhaps over £1m for a 'federation' per year. There are over 100,000 school children per year in London, so over a million in total. So that is £225m taken out of the system per year, even before private contracts for school meals, books from designated suppliers etc. That is just in London.
    Funding for such things are paid for by funds per pupil
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    I support this in principle, but it would need Conservative support, and the spineless jellies will always find an excuse to wriggle their way out of voting for this bill

    Also Aph's concern about reducing tax is valid, there should be a tax cut
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    Nay
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    (Original post by TheDefiniteArticle)
    Nay. First, pivate interaction in schooling is a terrible idea and only isolates children of the rich in the best schools. Furthermore, selective schooling has provably failed, causing an overall dimunition in academic standards. I used to support selective schooling, then I looked at the evidence.
    This bill would pretty clearly reduce the educational quality gap between rich and poor kids and the only other way of doing that would be to force everybody to go to state schools
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    (Original post by CoffeeGeek)
    Nay. I agree with most of the purpose but the implementation is bad, it's not formatted good and the income brackets are not clear at all... A bit lazy? Those tests should not be compulsory or else it kind of limits parent choice. 1(4) and 1(6) I find very hard to distinguish between. You also haven't costed the exams you're forcing primary school students to take, I'm pretty sure printing thousands of pieces of paper is not free.

    Let's hope the second reading is much better.
    "I'm pretty sure paper isn't free"

    As predicted, the Tories are doing everything they can to avoid supporting a bill by their rivals for the title of Opposition, though they will inevitably do one of two things:
    a) not release any meaningful education reform bill this term or;
    b) release something that is riddled with more errors than this
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    (Original post by Gladstone1885)
    "I'm pretty sure paper isn't free"

    As predicted, the Tories are doing everything they can to avoid supporting a bill by their rivals for the title of Opposition, though they will inevitably do one of two things:
    a) not release any meaningful education reform bill this term or;
    b) release something that is riddled with more errors than this
    The concept of the bill is good. However the implementation is not perfect and parts need to be clearer. CoffeeGeek has a valid point about tests costing money to print, who's marking them? These will be substantial costs. I can see that his/her criticism was valid and was based on the implementation of the bill.He/she was even open to backing the bill if it was improved.

    I can not see spite and the criticism is valid. We should be trying to build bridges not create enemies.
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    (Original post by Saunders16)

    I understand you are coming from the perspective of the left but is there anything that could change your mind (within reason)?
    Click on Aph's profile. The individual is in the socialist user group. You are wasting your time attempting to convince him/her.
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    nay
 
 
 
Updated: July 2, 2017
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