Why does God have to be all-powerful and all-loving to exist?

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TheDuo
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#1
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#1
when people think of God they often think of an absolute and all powerful being, but a creator doesn't have to be an absolute being, just one who is just quite powerful like the Engineers in the Alien franchise or the Celestials from Marvel comics. I think this is quite good as it would explain why they allow the suffering in the world.
any thoughts??
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iwatkins151209
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#2
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#2
(Original post by TheDuo)
when people think of God they often think of an absolute and all powerful being, but a creator doesn't have to be an absolute being, just one who is just quite powerful like the Engineers in the Alien franchise or the Celestials from Marvel comics. I think this is quite good as it would explain why they allow the suffering in the world.
any thoughts??
Your idea is similar to that of David Griffin's Process thought which denies the existence of God's omnipotence and that he had a more persuasive power over creation, explaining why evil exists. This is a valid argument to satisfy me as an atheist but most Christians believe in a God of Classical Theism, so denying God's omnipotence seems to merely skip around the issue for them.

What people want to know is if an all-powerful and all-loving God can exist with evil?

This is argued to be possible in the Free Will defence comprised by many different modern philosophers and theologians such as Richard Swinburne and Alvin Platinga and classic ones such as Augustine and Iraenaeus. They believe that God allows moral evil because a world where people have the free will to act immorally is intrinsically more valuable and loving than a world where we a mere robots who can only make good moral choices. Natural evil is allowed in the world because it supports the existence of free will, for example, God remains epistemically distant behind natural evil as in a world where we know of God's presence who doesn't allow for natural evil would mean that we feel we are under constant CCTV supervision thus only acting morally good, which people argue is not true free will.

There are many other arguments these are just a couple. But your answer to your question is that the Problem of evil is solved by denying God's power and is love but it's still an issue for many as many hold strong the idea that God is all-loving and all-powerful as in the bible it makes clear on multiple occasions that God is these things and for many a God who is not the God of Classical Theism seems unworthy of worship.
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TheDuo
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#3
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#3
(Original post by iwatkins151209)
Your idea is similar to that of David Griffin's Process thought which denies the existence of God's omnipotence and that he had a more persuasive power over creation, explaining why evil exists. This is a valid argument to satisfy me as an atheist but most Christians believe in a God of Classical Theism, so denying God's omnipotence seems to merely skip around the issue for them.

What people want to know is if an all-powerful and all-loving God can exist with evil?

This is argued to be possible in the Free Will defence comprised by many different modern philosophers and theologians such as Richard Swinburne and Alvin Platinga and classic ones such as Augustine and Iraenaeus. They believe that God allows moral evil because a world where people have the free will to act immorally is intrinsically more valuable and loving than a world where we a mere robots who can only make good moral choices. Natural evil is allowed in the world because it supports the existence of free will, for example, God remains epistemically distant behind natural evil as in a world where we know of God's presence who doesn't allow for natural evil would mean that we feel we are under constant CCTV supervision thus only acting morally good, which people argue is not true free will.

There are many other arguments these are just a couple. But your answer to your question is that the Problem of evil is solved by denying God's power and is love but it's still an issue for many as many hold strong the idea that God is all-loving and all-powerful as in the bible it makes clear on multiple occasions that God is these things and for many a God who is not the God of Classical Theism seems unworthy of worship.
exactly, the idea of an Omni-everything God is so isolating to me. I always imagined powerful and advanced extra-terrestrial or inter-dimensional beings advanced enough to engineer life and gave their creatures some form of 'souls'. I find it quite satisfying but mysterious.
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iwatkins151209
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#4
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#4
(Original post by TheDuo)
exactly, the idea of an Omni-everything God is so isolating to me. I always imagined powerful and advanced extra-terrestrial or inter-dimensional beings advanced enough to engineer life and gave their creatures some form of 'souls'. I find it quite satisfying but mysterious.
Yeah that's an interesting concept, but after learning about all different theories I'm still an atheist as I think the evidential problem of evil (the extent and amont of unsesscary evil) will never be solved and science is enough explanation for me. But I'm always open to new ideas
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Anonymous #1
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#5
(Original post by throwaway1298563)
Why does God have to exist at all
Why do you?
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TheDuo
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#6
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#6
(Original post by iwatkins151209)
Yeah that's an interesting concept, but after learning about all different theories I'm still an atheist as I think the evidential problem of evil (the extent and amont of unsesscary evil) will never be solved and science is enough explanation for me. But I'm always open to new ideas
I completely understand and agree with you. Agnostic-atheism is the most rational and practical approach to this issue for most.
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Rooster11366
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#7
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#7
(Original post by throwaway1298563)
Why does God have to exist at all
Can anyone confirm he ever did exist.
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throwaway1298563
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#8
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#8
(Original post by Anonymous)
Why do you?
I don't have to exist. I cant even prove I exist because I might not.
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nutsfornuttall
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#9
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#9
(Original post by TheDuo)
when people think of God they often think of an absolute and all powerful being, but a creator doesn't have to be an absolute being, just one who is just quite powerful like the Engineers in the Alien franchise or the Celestials from Marvel comics. I think this is quite good as it would explain why they allow the suffering in the world.
any thoughts??
not really mate
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TheDuo
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#10
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#10
(Original post by nutsfornuttall)
not really mate
what do you mean??
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iwatkins151209
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#11
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#11
(Original post by throwaway1298563)
Why does God have to exist at all
I'm an atheist but there are still many things that science may never be able to answer. Like how the Big Bang started meaning that there must be something else and I agree with you that this nessecarily doesn't have to be God.
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TheDuo
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Rooster11366)
Can anyone confirm he ever did exist.
no one can confirm he never existed either.
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iwatkins151209
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#13
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#13
(Original post by throwaway1298563)
I don't have to exist. I cant even prove I exist because I might not.
"I think therefore I am" --- Descartes
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Rooster11366
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#14
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#14
(Original post by TheDuo)
no one can confirm he never existed either.
That does not answer my question. Someone's belief does not mean he does exist.
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iwatkins151209
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#15
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#15
(Original post by Rooster11366)
That does not answer my question. Someone's belief does not mean he does exist.
Your existence cannot be doubted.
God may or may not exist, that's all.
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iwatkins151209
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#16
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#16
(Original post by iwatkins151209)
Your existence cannot be doubted.
God may or may not exist, that's all.
Someone's lack of belief equally doesn't mean He does not exist.
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Rooster11366
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#17
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#17
(Original post by iwatkins151209)
Someone's lack of belief equally doesn't mean He does not exist.
This is a chicken and egg type question.

I do find some times when you ask this question. Some people take this question to heart. I do not understand why that is
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iwatkins151209
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Rooster11366)
This is a chicken and egg type question.

I do find some times when you ask this question. Some people take this question to heart. I do not understand why that is
I agree
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Elastichedgehog
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#19
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#19
(Original post by TheDuo)
when people think of God they often think of an absolute and all powerful being, but a creator doesn't have to be an absolute being, just one who is just quite powerful like the Engineers in the Alien franchise or the Celestials from Marvel comics. I think this is quite good as it would explain why they allow the suffering in the world.
any thoughts??
Well within the very limited amount of philosophy I've done on the subject, it's because these are necessary properties of a "theistic god".

I suppose you could put forward an argument in regards to the existence of a non-theistic god though.
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TheDuo
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#20
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#20
(Original post by Elastichedgehog)
Well within the very limited amount of philosophy I've done on the subject, it's because these are necessary properties of a "theistic god".

I suppose you could put forward an argument in regards to the existence of a non-theistic god though.
quantum physics is constantly blurring the line between natural and supernatural. what we think of as 'spirit' may well exist and yet transcend all scientific knowledge. if that ever happens, that is truly what the Supernatural is.
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