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    Muslims believe the Quran to be the perfect word of God. So after having concerns with Islam in general, I analyzed the Quran. The following are some of my major objections derived from the Quran that made me leave my faith.

    Heaven and Hell:Why would you put me eternally in one of two places for what I did during some few years? Isn't that injust? And you know what is also injust? The fact that Satan got away from punishment when he disobeyed god. But why is that? Can't god control him? Or is he more powerful? The answer is unclear because no one recorded what he saw, I can't believe in what a person in the middle of the desert said, that he ascended to the highest heavens with an unnatural creature. And if god was as smart why didn't he send Muhammed in the 21st century where he could have recorded what he saw somehow so people can have strong faith. Moreover, heaven is somehow made for men especially because of mentionning gorgeous women over and over with wine and everything that god prohibited, that makes no sense.

    Islamic Heaven:The image of heaven is painted like it's a fantasy of a 6th century arab; Lavish silk clothing, jewelery, young boys circulating wine, full breasted, large beautiful eyed virgins, shades of palm and banana tress, rivers of honey and milk, meat of the fowl etc. That heaven is not for anyone else or for all times. And it's not intended to be a metaphor. (the verses are spread out in the Quran).

    Murdering a child and Moses: In an event, a man kills a child in front of Moses. Upon inquiring,Moses is told that the child would have grown up to be a non believer and that would burden his Muslim parents (verse 18:74- verse18-82). Implying it's ok to murder a child because he may not grow up to be a Muslim.

    Miracles: The many fables about miracles. Moon splitting in two, fish swallowing a prophet, miracles of Moses and Jesus etc.

    Transforming his cane into a python, making a road in the middle of the sea by hitting a stick on the ground, traveling to heaven with an unnatural creature are all some fairy tales that I used to believe when I was 5 years old. That's the least I can say.

    People who wrote the book didn't believe them to be metaphors. They believe it literally happened. How's that any different from myths found in other religions?

    Adam and Eve:The story of Adam and Eve as the initiation of creation on earth. It doesn't relate with evolution, which makes sense. There are many holes in the story. Are we then the product of incest? One couple can't populate the earth. Why would God create his own game set the rules, watch as Satan tells them about the tree and then freaks out afterwards. Unless that too is somehow a metaphor.

    6 days of Creation:At one point it states , God says be and it happens. But then He needs 6 days to create the universe. Theists say, the time is different for us. For us it's 6 days, for Him it's a moment. But that's only speculation and an excuse for this inconsistency. (verses : 32:4, 50:38, 7:54, 57:4, 25:59)

    Allah controls everythingAllah chooses not to interfere, hence our free will. But Quran has inconsistencies on the matter. At several points it says Allah guides those whom He wills, He controls who becomes a Muslim. If I'm searching for Him and He decides that He doesn't want me as a Muslim, i can't do anything about it. Also He says that family and children are less important than him, which doesn't sit will with me. A religious person can leave his family if God tells them too, can murder his child, can do anything if God tells them to. And how does one know that the voices or dreams they're having are a mere product of their mind and not some universal celestial being sending vague signals?

    Expressing loudly is frowned upon: Verse 31:19 indicates that if you speak or laugh loudly you sound like a donkey. This expression, one would expect from a child, not from an All knowing God. He created the donkey to be ridiculed? And to use this analogy, a celestial being can do better.

    Aggressive language: Killing an LGBT person, murdering atheists and hitting your 10 years old child because he doesn't pray are all barberic deeds for a religion that claims to be the most peaceful ever. In fact that's​ what made Okba Ibnou Nafaa and other savage military leaders to invade people that didn't even harm them like Amazighs, kill their children, rape their women, take their land and force their religion on them. This is all downgrading for a nation that was described in the Quran as the best nation that was sent to earth.

    Christians and Jews: Earlier on Quran says they are both allies, people of the book. When they don't acknowledge the prophet or Islam and keep their faith, Quran curses them. The Jews were cursed first, when their relationship got bitter with Muslims, during the battle of trench. Quran said Christians are nice as they have monks and priests who are truthful. Then they were cursed too. It said not to take either of them as allies and may Allah destroy them. And then Jews are prohibited fat of animals. This sounds more like the intentions of the prophet rather than inconsistent commands of Allah. But you can marry their women to spread Islam, in hopes that they'd convert. (verses : 5:51, 5:82, 9:30, 6:146)

    Context based signs:Allah talks about signs in the universe for His existence. But all these signs were observable in the 6th century desert. Ships, seas, childbirth, moon, sky without pillars like a plane, rain, sun, palm trees, pomegranates, grapevines, creation from sperm, rivers,earth laid out,mountains, having sons as wealth, hunting and tents from hides etc. Nothing even outside of the context. Elm and oak trees provide a greater shade than palm trees. They're never mentioned. The evidence of signs is not convincing to a person looking for God in modern times.

    Battles:Violent verses during battles aren't really objectionable. Except a few. For example the verse 8:67 says to not have slaves unless you spread massacre across the land. But the tone of the verses is barbaric. Striking necks, fingertips, slaughter etc. The same message could be delivered in a much better way if the said God is humble, kind and hates unnecessary violence.

    God, punishments and genocide: One can't really judge God on the scale of human morality. But His kill count is much higher. He admits He kills nations in their sleep at night or noon. He's no divine, humble, mature celestial being. He's jealous and vindictive. He creates pigs and monkeys as symbols of insult and mockery, then turns humans into those animals. He says when you're in power, do not show mercy. But then the prophet showed mercy at conquest of Mecca. Maybe that's another inconsistency. Cursing an ancient Arab like Abu Lahab in the divine Book of guidance seems trivial and petty for a God. He says don't attend the funerals of your non Muslim friends. And there's even a verse (22:15) that says if you don't believe in the prophet, try and hang yourself with a rope from the ceiling and see if that changes anything. That's an All wise God’s message. And He says if you're told to kill yourself for God, that is better for you .Verse 59:5 justifies the cutting down of trees in a desert. It's all a game, He creates and destroys. (verse: 32:26, 5:60, 7:4, 66:9, 111:1, 5:33, 4:65)

    Rulings: Marrying your adopted son's wife is totally fine. You can never call him your true son. The person you see as your daughter in law can be your wife. This would only induce feelings of hatred between the son and his father.100 lashes to a couple who consensually has premarital sex. Why? You don't know them, they're not hurting you, no one's being raped. You barge into their lives, lash them in front of an audience, humiliate them and be pleased with yourself of having done a noble deed. If you want to educate people about sex, it's their parents job. It's their families concern. It's not Allah's concern. It's not your job to lash anyone.Cursing gays when it's not a choice and God made them that way.

    Slavery:Yes, Islam liberated slaves of the 6th century. They were treated as daughters, sons, sisters, brothers. They were fed and clothed like their masters. They could demand freedom. But God knows better that in the modern world, good treatment of a slave is no excuse to own a human being. Slavery wasn't banned by Allah like wine or pork was. There was a contract that stated this man or woman is your property. Owning a human being is wrong. If God could add a clear verse about not consuming pork, what prevented him to add a clear verse about not owning human beings? Why leave that to vague examples and Muslims doing mental gymnastics trying to somehow make it sound reasonable?

    LGBT: The traditional schools of islamic law based on Quranic verses and Hadith, and influenced by Islamic scholars such as Imam Malik and Imam Shafi, consider homosexual acts a crime punishable by death and a sin even it was proven scientifically that it is a human nature.

    Women:Woman were given many rights and they too were liberated in Islam. But then it stopped. It's clear from reading the Quran that it's from a male's perspective in which woman at times are treated as inferiors.She can't divorce in the same way a man canThere has to be two female witnesses for one man, so if one female forgets the other can remind herMarrying any four women and amongst your many many concubines, but women don't have the same choicesIf a woman is raped and can't produce four witnesses. She might even get punished herself. She wouldn't get justiceVerse 24:31 says “…. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment…” Meaning, a woman should not move in a way that reveals her body. It restricts you in illogical ways. You play sports, you're sinning. You can't dance, get excited and express it.One can beat women if she cheats (yes I've heard the miswaq example) the woman can't beat a man.Outside of the Quran, there are many other problems with the mere idea of God. One look at innocent children dying of horrible diseases, being tortured in pain, may make a logical believer question the idea of a merciful loving God.Or if one digs deep into history and looks at the religion's role models, they're found to have done some questionable things. They were people of their time. Who did some good and some bad things. Definitely not the perfect examples of character.And if one does a philosophical analysis of religion. It's about getting rid of your own individuality to serve men in power who claim to talk to God. To obsessively idolize a man, called the perfect human being. If you're born different in this religion, you're labeled a sinner. Organized religion suffocates dreamers and free thinkers. It makes them guilty of their ability to fly and many cut of their wings to fit in. I for one am glad I took the leap of faith away from my indoctrination.

    Let's not even talk about the hadith's.


    Islam has made my life miserable. I live in a country(Islamic Republic of Pakistan) where where I could be killed for leaving Islam. My parents would probably kill me if they found out before the state or people do. My life is pretty much a lie. I have no one I can share my views with or openly and freely talk about them because I fear for my life.
    I have to pretend to be a good muslim in front of family,friends and everyone.

    I'm sorry I know this was very long and if you didn't read all of it then I don't blame you.

    Thanks for reading.
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    (Original post by LadiesMan99)
    Muslims believe the Quran to be the perfect word of God. So after having concerns with Islam in general, I analyzed the Quran. The following are some of my major objections derived from the Quran that made me leave my faith.

    Heaven and Hell:Why would you put me eternally in one of two places for what I did during some few years? Isn't that injust? And you know what is also injust? The fact that Satan got away from punishment when he disobeyed god. But why is that? Can't god control him? Or is he more powerful? The answer is unclear because no one recorded what he saw, I can't believe in what a person in the middle of the desert said, that he ascended to the highest heavens with an unnatural creature. And if god was as smart why didn't he send Muhammed in the 21st century where he could have recorded what he saw somehow so people can have strong faith. Moreover, heaven is somehow made for men especially because of mentionning gorgeous women over and over with wine and everything that god prohibited, that makes no sense.

    Islamic Heaven:The image of heaven is painted like it's a fantasy of a 6th century arab; Lavish silk clothing, jewelery, young boys circulating wine, full breasted, large beautiful eyed virgins, shades of palm and banana tress, rivers of honey and milk, meat of the fowl etc. That heaven is not for anyone else or for all times. And it's not intended to be a metaphor. (the verses are spread out in the Quran).

    Murdering a child and Moses: In an event, a man kills a child in front of Moses. Upon inquiring,Moses is told that the child would have grown up to be a non believer and that would burden his Muslim parents (verse 18:74- verse18-82). Implying it's ok to murder a child because he may not grow up to be a Muslim.

    Miracles: The many fables about miracles. Moon splitting in two, fish swallowing a prophet, miracles of Moses and Jesus etc.

    Transforming his cane into a python, making a road in the middle of the sea by hitting a stick on the ground, traveling to heaven with an unnatural creature are all some fairy tales that I used to believe when I was 5 years old. That's the least I can say.

    People who wrote the book didn't believe them to be metaphors. They believe it literally happened. How's that any different from myths found in other religions?

    Adam and Eve:The story of Adam and Eve as the initiation of creation on earth. It doesn't relate with evolution, which makes sense. There are many holes in the story. Are we then the product of incest? One couple can't populate the earth. Why would God create his own game set the rules, watch as Satan tells them about the tree and then freaks out afterwards. Unless that too is somehow a metaphor.

    6 days of Creation:At one point it states , God says be and it happens. But then He needs 6 days to create the universe. Theists say, the time is different for us. For us it's 6 days, for Him it's a moment. But that's only speculation and an excuse for this inconsistency. (verses : 32:4, 50:38, 7:54, 57:4, 25:59)

    Allah controls everythingAllah chooses not to interfere, hence our free will. But Quran has inconsistencies on the matter. At several points it says Allah guides those whom He wills, He controls who becomes a Muslim. If I'm searching for Him and He decides that He doesn't want me as a Muslim, i can't do anything about it. Also He says that family and children are less important than him, which doesn't sit will with me. A religious person can leave his family if God tells them too, can murder his child, can do anything if God tells them to. And how does one know that the voices or dreams they're having are a mere product of their mind and not some universal celestial being sending vague signals?

    Expressing loudly is frowned upon: Verse 31:19 indicates that if you speak or laugh loudly you sound like a donkey. This expression, one would expect from a child, not from an All knowing God. He created the donkey to be ridiculed? And to use this analogy, a celestial being can do better.

    Aggressive language: Killing an LGBT person, murdering atheists and hitting your 10 years old child because he doesn't pray are all barberic deeds for a religion that claims to be the most peaceful ever. In fact that's​ what made Okba Ibnou Nafaa and other savage military leaders to invade people that didn't even harm them like Amazighs, kill their children, rape their women, take their land and force their religion on them. This is all downgrading for a nation that was described in the Quran as the best nation that was sent to earth.

    Christians and Jews: Earlier on Quran says they are both allies, people of the book. When they don't acknowledge the prophet or Islam and keep their faith, Quran curses them. The Jews were cursed first, when their relationship got bitter with Muslims, during the battle of trench. Quran said Christians are nice as they have monks and priests who are truthful. Then they were cursed too. It said not to take either of them as allies and may Allah destroy them. And then Jews are prohibited fat of animals. This sounds more like the intentions of the prophet rather than inconsistent commands of Allah. But you can marry their women to spread Islam, in hopes that they'd convert. (verses : 5:51, 5:82, 9:30, 6:146)

    Context based signs:Allah talks about signs in the universe for His existence. But all these signs were observable in the 6th century desert. Ships, seas, childbirth, moon, sky without pillars like a plane, rain, sun, palm trees, pomegranates, grapevines, creation from sperm, rivers,earth laid out,mountains, having sons as wealth, hunting and tents from hides etc. Nothing even outside of the context. Elm and oak trees provide a greater shade than palm trees. They're never mentioned. The evidence of signs is not convincing to a person looking for God in modern times.

    Battles:Violent verses during battles aren't really objectionable. Except a few. For example the verse 8:67 says to not have slaves unless you spread massacre across the land. But the tone of the verses is barbaric. Striking necks, fingertips, slaughter etc. The same message could be delivered in a much better way if the said God is humble, kind and hates unnecessary violence.

    God, punishments and genocide: One can't really judge God on the scale of human morality. But His kill count is much higher. He admits He kills nations in their sleep at night or noon. He's no divine, humble, mature celestial being. He's jealous and vindictive. He creates pigs and monkeys as symbols of insult and mockery, then turns humans into those animals. He says when you're in power, do not show mercy. But then the prophet showed mercy at conquest of Mecca. Maybe that's another inconsistency. Cursing an ancient Arab like Abu Lahab in the divine Book of guidance seems trivial and petty for a God. He says don't attend the funerals of your non Muslim friends. And there's even a verse (22:15) that says if you don't believe in the prophet, try and hang yourself with a rope from the ceiling and see if that changes anything. That's an All wise God’s message. And He says if you're told to kill yourself for God, that is better for you .Verse 59:5 justifies the cutting down of trees in a desert. It's all a game, He creates and destroys. (verse: 32:26, 5:60, 7:4, 66:9, 111:1, 5:33, 4:65)

    Rulings: Marrying your adopted son's wife is totally fine. You can never call him your true son. The person you see as your daughter in law can be your wife. This would only induce feelings of hatred between the son and his father.100 lashes to a couple who consensually has premarital sex. Why? You don't know them, they're not hurting you, no one's being raped. You barge into their lives, lash them in front of an audience, humiliate them and be pleased with yourself of having done a noble deed. If you want to educate people about sex, it's their parents job. It's their families concern. It's not Allah's concern. It's not your job to lash anyone.Cursing gays when it's not a choice and God made them that way.

    Slavery:Yes, Islam liberated slaves of the 6th century. They were treated as daughters, sons, sisters, brothers. They were fed and clothed like their masters. They could demand freedom. But God knows better that in the modern world, good treatment of a slave is no excuse to own a human being. Slavery wasn't banned by Allah like wine or pork was. There was a contract that stated this man or woman is your property. Owning a human being is wrong. If God could add a clear verse about not consuming pork, what prevented him to add a clear verse about not owning human beings? Why leave that to vague examples and Muslims doing mental gymnastics trying to somehow make it sound reasonable?

    LGBT: The traditional schools of islamic law based on Quranic verses and Hadith, and influenced by Islamic scholars such as Imam Malik and Imam Shafi, consider homosexual acts a crime punishable by death and a sin even it was proven scientifically that it is a human nature.

    Women:Woman were given many rights and they too were liberated in Islam. But then it stopped. It's clear from reading the Quran that it's from a male's perspective in which woman at times are treated as inferiors.She can't divorce in the same way a man canThere has to be two female witnesses for one man, so if one female forgets the other can remind herMarrying any four women and amongst your many many concubines, but women don't have the same choicesIf a woman is raped and can't produce four witnesses. She might even get punished herself. She wouldn't get justiceVerse 24:31 says “…. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment…” Meaning, a woman should not move in a way that reveals her body. It restricts you in illogical ways. You play sports, you're sinning. You can't dance, get excited and express it.One can beat women if she cheats (yes I've heard the miswaq example) the woman can't beat a man.Outside of the Quran, there are many other problems with the mere idea of God. One look at innocent children dying of horrible diseases, being tortured in pain, may make a logical believer question the idea of a merciful loving God.Or if one digs deep into history and looks at the religion's role models, they're found to have done some questionable things. They were people of their time. Who did some good and some bad things. Definitely not the perfect examples of character.And if one does a philosophical analysis of religion. It's about getting rid of your own individuality to serve men in power who claim to talk to God. To obsessively idolize a man, called the perfect human being. If you're born different in this religion, you're labeled a sinner. Organized religion suffocates dreamers and free thinkers. It makes them guilty of their ability to fly and many cut of their wings to fit in. I for one am glad I took the leap of faith away from my indoctrination.

    Let's not even talk about the hadith's.


    Islam has made my life miserable. I live in a country(Islamic Republic of Pakistan) where where I could be killed for leaving Islam. My parents would probably kill me if they found out before the state or people do. My life is pretty much a lie. I have no one I can share my views with or openly and freely talk about them because I fear for my life.
    I have to pretend to be a good muslim in front of family,friends and everyone.

    I'm sorry I know this was very long and if you didn't read all of it then I don't blame you.

    Thanks for reading.
    First of all i want to thank you for writing this.

    There is a lot of this that i can relate to. I may not be living in a country like yours. (i writing this from England). I do not mean to write this to belittle your experiences. I do wish the best for you that you can somehow come to a place where you will be accepted.

    I recently left the religion of Islam and i feel liberated. the only reason i was able to do this was because of people like yourself that state the fact in a way that is unarguable.

    now that I've stepped out and am viewing things as a bystander i can see how brutal it is. there was a time when my mother was casually talking about how non-virgin women that arnt married but have sex should be stoned to death in the region and that virgin women that have sex "only have to get whipped".

    she casually mentioned the death and/or torture of women like this and said that "Islam was a region of peace" in the same breath.

    the only thing that made me stay a Muslim was the constant thought that there might be a hell. i suddenly realised that there inst one and left the religion.

    however since my family are very devout Muslims i cannot say anything. i cant come out since my dad pays for everything and i don't want to be kicked out.

    I'm sorry if this seems like I'm going off in a tangent but i hate the ideology of Islam so much.

    IF THERE IS A GOD why do Muslims feel the need to act out a punishment. if god is all powerful then why doesn't he punish the thieves instead of people cutting the hands off themselves.

    Because of this region i cannot wear what i want. i have to cover up in full black with a hijab.
    i also hate when people say that the hijab is a sign of empowerment.

    ITS NOT.

    dear sir/mam its hard to keep quite but i believe it can only get better. you'll be able yo grow older and get away.

    thank you for reading.
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    Welcome to the dark side, I left around 2 years ago over concerns about women's rights. My main problem was the idea of menstruation being impure and all that nonsense at the time, but since then, I've read up on stuff more and found other things, many of which you've listed that I wasn't pleased with.
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    Thank you for sharing your story!

    I'm also an Ex-Muslim who used to live in Pakistan. I left around 10 years ago, and haven't look back since.

    We are all here for you if you need to talk or vent. I can't imagine what it's like to live in Pakistan nowadays. It seems to become more Islamised by the day, which is really sad, as I feel that religion is holding the country back in a lot of ways.
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    You are all brave people.
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    This is quite an interesting read Congrats on being a intelligent and normal person that actually managed to deny all the crap they indoctrinate you with in Pakistan since you left the womb. Don't get yourself killed thou... Life is more important than religious (and lack off) beliefs at the end of the day.
    Perhaps you could try immigrating to a non-muslim country, thus leaving the oppression.

    What are your opinions on your family for still being muslims? Do you hate them? Pity them? Still love them (despite knowing they would turn on your over something stupid as a different religious perspective), and what made you tell us your interesting story?

    Also I have a Pakistani mate who told me that Pakistan's youth was actually quite liberal? Do you think Pakistan could fix itself in the future, when the current youth is in power? Or was he full of **** as always -_-.
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    You are all exceptionally brave people.

    I am from the Far East, raised as sort of culturally Buddhist/agnostic. Somehow, through some serendipitous circumstances, one of my closest friends was a Muslim. I was also very close to his parents as well who were totally lovely.

    Then my friend decided to reveal his homosexuality to his family. As you can guess all hell ensued and the shock will stay with me for the rest of my life. I have never seen such loving and kind people turn in an instant into the most vicious and cruel people imaginable.

    This led me to really study Islam and I find that the most problematic aspect of it is that it just completely negates the ability for one to think for oneself, and I think as humans our capacity for reflection and rational thought are the most virtuous qualities which Islam suppresses through indoctrination as the scripture is considered immutable. I wish this huge obstacle can be overcome one-day, and Muslims can reconcile their faith with reason like most other religious groups do in this day and age.

    I find it really interesting however, and hope you can share your experiences. Exactly how do you overcome the indoctrination. Is there a sort of Eureka moment where you find an inconsistency and that starts you on your journey of rational thought, or is it a gradual process. Does the world outside of Islam you experience also make you realise that inconsistencies and fallacies that are inherent in the scripture - I guess this would apply more to those who live in the West?
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    (Original post by Osiris Wintereisse)
    You are all exceptionally brave people.

    I am from the Far East, raised as sort of culturally Buddhist/agnostic. Somehow, through some serendipitous circumstances, one of my closest friends was a Muslim. I was also very close to his parents as well who were totally lovely.

    Then my friend decided to reveal his homosexuality to his family. As you can guess all hell ensued and the shock will stay with me for the rest of my life. I have never seen such loving and kind people turn in an instant into the most vicious and cruel people imaginable.

    This led me to really study Islam and I find that the most problematic aspect of it is that it just completely negates the ability for one to think for oneself, and I think as humans our capacity for reflection and rational thought are the most virtuous qualities which Islam suppresses through indoctrination as the scripture is considered immutable. I wish this huge obstacle can be overcome one-day, and Muslims can reconcile their faith with reason like most other religious groups do in this day and age.

    I find it really interesting however, and hope you can share your experiences. Exactly how do you overcome the indoctrination. Is there a sort of Eureka moment where you find an inconsistency and that starts you on your journey of rational thought, or is it a gradual process. Does the world outside of Islam you experience also make you realise that inconsistencies and fallacies that are inherent in the scripture - I guess this would apply more to those who live in the West?

    Dear Sir / ma'am

    I will try to answer this to the best of my ability. In my experience it was a very long journey.

    It started when I was a child. I began questioning many things, as little children often do. My questions were always from a place of innocence. I didn't have any malicious intent. I was just curious.

    However by asking questions I often got into trouble.

    An instance of this was when I was around 9 years old (i think )
    and I was really ill. I'd often feel lethargic and wouldn't be able to do anything. I would always go to my dad to help me and he would tell me to pray. Night after night I would pray to god to alleviate my ills. After a while I realised that it wasn't helping. I got worse and worse.

    I was lying in bed with a really high temperature and was shivering. I then asked my father, "Why isn't god helping me? I prayed and prayed and it still hurts."

    My father got really offended by this since it counted as blasphemy and told me that "it was because of these sinful thoughts that I was having".

    I was only seven so I just accepted it and fought through it.

    Throughout my life I've been told that if you go against Islam a hellish punishment will be waiting for you. Ever since I was small I've had stories of that day of judgement be told to me. Graphic stories of how men and women will be "drowning in their own sweat" or "burning alive for all eternity" and that the day will be so frightful that "mothers won't even recognise their own children" and "everyone will be fighting for themselves". I've been told that the only way to overcome this was to be a pious Muslim.

    The thing that is scary about this indoctrination is that it’s built-in so deep into people. My family genuinely believe this, and are trying to "save themselves". Our minds were clouded with fear.

    The only way I was able to break free was because of many people on the internet that pointed out the contradictions in the Quran, or the contradictions between the Quran and hadith.

    Another thing to point out is that for many people (me included) we are told to read the Quran in Arabic but we don't understand it and if we don't understand anything we should go to a scholar.

    Many people do this and are shown more pro-Islam propaganda.

    I wouldn't really call it a eureka moment since for me it was a painfully gradual process however I do agree with the idea that once you learn about once contradiction, it leads to another until you can't really prove it.

    I am very sorry it came about as a rambling answer. I thought I would have been able to answer it since I am an Ex-Muslim teen living in the west with a family.

    I do apologise for having wasted your time.

    I’d like to thank you since I really appreciated the question. I too hope that people would realise how bad Islam is.
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    (Original post by Caiyren)
    Dear sir

    I will try to answer this to the best of my ability. In my experience it was a very long journey.

    It started when i was a child. i began questioning many things, as little children often do. my questions were always from a place of innocence. I didn't have any malicious intent. i was just curious.

    however by asking questions i often got into trouble.

    An instance of this was when i was around 7 years old and i was really ill. i'd often feel lethargic and wouldn't be able to do anything. I would always go to my dad to help me and he would tell me to pray. night after night i would pray to god to alleviate my ills. after a while i realised that it wasn't helping. i got worse and worse.
    i was lying in bed with a really high temp. and was shivering. i then asked my father, "why isn't god helping me? i prayed and prayed and it still hurts."

    my father got really offended by this since it counted as blasphemy and told me that "it was because of these sinful thoughts that i was having".

    i was only seven so i jest accepted it and fought through it.

    through out my life I've been told that if you go against Islam a hellish punishment will be waiting for you. ever since i was small I've had stories of that day of judgement be told to me. graphic stories of how men and women will be "drowning in their own sweat" or "burning alive for all eternity" and that the day will be so frightful that "mothers won't even recognise their own children" and "everyone will be fighting for themselves". I've been told that the only way to overcome this was to be a pious Muslim.

    the thing that is scary about this indoctrination is that its built in so deep into people. my family genuinely believe this, and are trying to "save themselves". our minds were clouded with fear.

    the only way i was able to break free was because of many people on the internet that pointed out the contradictions in the quran. or the contradictions between the quran and hadeeth.

    also another thing to point out is that for many people (me included) we are told to read the quran in Arabic but we don't understand it and if we don't understand anything we should go to a scholar.

    many people do this and are shown more pro-Islam propaganda.

    i wouldn't really call it a eureka moment since for me it was a painfully gradual process however i do agree with the idea that once you learn about once contradiction, it leads to another until you cant really justify it.

    I am very sorry it came about as a rambling answer. I thought i would have been able to answer it since i am an Ex-Muslim teen living in the west with a family.

    i do apologise for having wasted your time.

    i'd like to thank you since i really appreciated the question. i too hope that people would realise how bad Islam is.
    Why are you apologising, it's really inspirational. Thank you for sharing this story. So it's often a snowballing effect once you accept that there are logical inconsistencies that you need to further explore. Good on you for being so inquisitive!

    Do you keep the fact that you are an apostate a secret?
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    (Original post by Osiris Wintereisse)
    Why are you apologising, it's really inspirational. Thank you for sharing this story. So it's often a snowballing effect once you accept that there are logical inconsistencies that you need to further explore. Good on you for being so inquisitive!

    Do you keep the fact that you are an apostate a secret?
    Yes I do. I am only sixteen and I don't want to be homeless. As much as I would like to tell everyone, I wouldn't want to endanger myself. To be honest I don't know whether i would be able to ever tell my family. I really love them and I cannot bare the idea of them disowning me. this may seem really cowardly of me and i am very aware of that. but as of now i don't think i could tell my parents.

    Who knows I might be able to muster the courage up in the future.
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    (Original post by ABeingOnEarth)
    Truly a work of art. :congrats::congrats:
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    (Original post by Caiyren)
    Yes I do. I am only sixteen and I don't want to be homeless. As much as I would like to tell everyone, I wouldn't want to endanger myself. To be honest I don't know whether i would be able to ever tell my family. I really love them and I cannot bare the idea of them disowning me. this may seem really cowardly of me and i am very aware of that. but as of know i don't think i could tell my parents.

    Who knows I might be able to muster the courage up in the future.
    Best of luck on your future. Fingers crossed!
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    (Original post by Osiris Wintereisse)
    Best of luck on your future. Fingers crossed!
    Thanks
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    (Original post by Osiris Wintereisse)
    I find it really interesting however, and hope you can share your experiences. Exactly how do you overcome the indoctrination. Is there a sort of Eureka moment where you find an inconsistency and that starts you on your journey of rational thought, or is it a gradual process. Does the world outside of Islam you experience also make you realise that inconsistencies and fallacies that are inherent in the scripture - I guess this would apply more to those who live in the West?
    Hope you don't mind my two cents!

    For me, it was a very gradual process. It's also kinda like rolling down a hill - it gets faster with time. I actually started questioning when I was exceptionally young bc I was a curious child by nature. At age 11, I was very interested in the religion I was brought up with and made stupid decisions like telling my parents I wanted to wear the hijab (a trap I still can't get out of 5 years later). But as I learned more about the religion, I started finding things that didn't add up. Muhammad's child bride was one thing in particular that rubbed me the complete wrong way, and I even asked about it but was told to not worry about it. Another question I had that went dismissed was who Adam and Eve's children had children with. My mum's favourite line between ages 11 to 14 was "you're too young to understand". I went along with it, being a child.

    At ages 13 and 14, I became more tolerant towards gay people and also adopted other morals that contradicted the ones taught in Islam. This is also around the time I found out about menstruation being impure in Islam, like I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, which was one of the things that served as a major turning point in my faith. I didn't think it was fair at all, and with a mixture of me being a curious - and at this point, critical - teenager and at the same time wanting to be a Muslim woman that people would see as a role model since I thought Muslim girls didn't have enough, I decided that Islam might not be all that it had previously seemed. I started to consider myself a "liberal" Muslim but in hindsight, I wasn't a Muslim at all, I just didn't know what else to call myself. I was still defending some parts of Islam at this point.

    At 15, my older brother by 7 years started questioning the religion after his prayers didn't help his grades at university. He started talking to me about it and very long discussions ensued about what we thought. This served as a point of no return - I knew I was no longer a Muslim.

    Sometimes, I also just consider the entire transition phase as "I wasn't really a Muslim, I just did as I was told until I could think for myself".

    So I suppose it's a mixture of both - the "eureka" moment could be the part about menstruation and the fact I felt I was being held back by being born a girl, but I think my change in morals that contradicted those taught in Islam just before that is also important in how I went from Muslim to ex Muslim. It was a gradual process for me with a couple main pushes along the way, basically.

    Hope you found any part of that interesting lmao
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    (Original post by orderofthelotus)
    Hope you don't mind my two cents!

    For me, it was a very gradual process. It's also kinda like rolling down a hill - it gets faster with time. I actually started questioning when I was exceptionally young bc I was a curious child by nature. At age 11, I was very interested in the religion I was brought up with and made stupid decisions like telling my parents I wanted to wear the hijab (a trap I still can't get out of 5 years later). But as I learned more about the religion, I started finding things that didn't add up. Muhammad's child bride was one thing in particular that rubbed me the complete wrong way, and I even asked about it but was told to not worry about it. Another question I had that went dismissed was who Adam and Eve's children had children with. My mum's favourite line between ages 11 to 14 was "you're too young to understand". I went along with it, being a child.

    At ages 13 and 14, I became more tolerant towards gay people and also adopted other morals that contradicted the ones taught in Islam. This is also around the time I found out about menstruation being impure in Islam, like I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, which was one of the things that served as a major turning point in my faith. I didn't think it was fair at all, and with a mixture of me being a curious - and at this point, critical - teenager and at the same time wanting to be a Muslim woman that people would see as a role model since I thought Muslim girls didn't have enough, I decided that Islam might not be all that it had previously seemed. I started to consider myself a "liberal" Muslim but in hindsight, I wasn't a Muslim at all, I just didn't know what else to call myself. I was still defending some parts of Islam at this point.

    At 15, my older brother by 7 years started questioning the religion after his prayers didn't help his grades at university. He started talking to me about it and very long discussions ensued about what we thought. This served as a point of no return - I knew I was no longer a Muslim.

    Sometimes, I also just consider the entire transition phase as "I wasn't really a Muslim, I just did as I was told until I could think for myself".

    So I suppose it's a mixture of both - the "eureka" moment could be the part about menstruation and the fact I felt I was being held back by being born a girl, but I think my change in morals that contradicted those taught in Islam just before that is also important in how I went from Muslim to ex Muslim. It was a gradual process for me with a couple main pushes along the way, basically.

    Hope you found any part of that interesting lmao
    Thanks for the story, it's always fascinating to hear. Have you and your brother not be ostracised by your family, or is the apostasy strictly under wraps?
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    (Original post by Osiris Wintereisse)
    Thanks for the story, it's always fascinating to hear. Have you and your brother not be ostracised by your family, or is the apostasy strictly under wraps?
    We're really lucky, it doesn't look like we risk being disowned or anything of the sort. I do get told off from time to time when I try to leave without hijab and the subtle blasphemous comments I make from time to time don't go without me getting told off but that's about it. However, we're in a part of London that's very populated with Muslims, and I went to a school full of them. I didn't have a good time AT ALL towards the end. Hopefully news doesn't get around again in sixth form bc I'm not interested in dealing with that again.

    It might be worth noting that my family is from Bangladesh, and I did find that my Pakistani peers were much more extreme than my Bangladeshi ones. I especially remember once having a conversation in a group about a girl that was getting up to all sorts of things, and one Pakistani girl said something to the effect of "it's no wonder they used to bury infant girls in ancient Saudi Arabia. Islam shouldn't have saved them".

    I'm sure Bangladesh has its problems too, but most of the horror stories concerning apostasy I hear about involve Pakistan.
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    (Original post by orderofthelotus)
    Hope you don't mind my two cents!

    For me, it was a very gradual process. It's also kinda like rolling down a hill - it gets faster with time. I actually started questioning when I was exceptionally young bc I was a curious child by nature. At age 11, I was very interested in the religion I was brought up with and made stupid decisions like telling my parents I wanted to wear the hijab (a trap I still can't get out of 5 years later). But as I learned more about the religion, I started finding things that didn't add up. Muhammad's child bride was one thing in particular that rubbed me the complete wrong way, and I even asked about it but was told to not worry about it. Another question I had that went dismissed was who Adam and Eve's children had children with. My mum's favourite line between ages 11 to 14 was "you're too young to understand". I went along with it, being a child.

    At ages 13 and 14, I became more tolerant towards gay people and also adopted other morals that contradicted the ones taught in Islam. This is also around the time I found out about menstruation being impure in Islam, like I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, which was one of the things that served as a major turning point in my faith. I didn't think it was fair at all, and with a mixture of me being a curious - and at this point, critical - teenager and at the same time wanting to be a Muslim woman that people would see as a role model since I thought Muslim girls didn't have enough, I decided that Islam might not be all that it had previously seemed. I started to consider myself a "liberal" Muslim but in hindsight, I wasn't a Muslim at all, I just didn't know what else to call myself. I was still defending some parts of Islam at this point.

    At 15, my older brother by 7 years started questioning the religion after his prayers didn't help his grades at university. He started talking to me about it and very long discussions ensued about what we thought. This served as a point of no return - I knew I was no longer a Muslim.

    Sometimes, I also just consider the entire transition phase as "I wasn't really a Muslim, I just did as I was told until I could think for myself".

    So I suppose it's a mixture of both - the "eureka" moment could be the part about menstruation and the fact I felt I was being held back by being born a girl, but I think my change in morals that contradicted those taught in Islam just before that is also important in how I went from Muslim to ex Muslim. It was a gradual process for me with a couple main pushes along the way, basically.

    Hope you found any part of that interesting lmao
    Its always interesting to hear ex-Muslims experiences and I'm very grateful that you took the time to share it with us.
    It makes my day since i'm constantly surrounded by Islam living in Manchester. I don't know any ex-Muslims.

    Mind if i ask whether you ever find yourself in an argument with family members when talking about the "role of men and women" in the religion?

    I am the oldest in my family and I have a younger brother. There has always been a huge double standard if our family. Many things would be tolerated for him since it was allowed in the religion but wasn't for me. I was wondering if you have ever had to deal with this?
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    I also had a general question I wanted to ask. Do you guys who are ex Muslims feel that reform is genuinely possible within Islam - if so how? I see Islam's history and reformers have not been dealt with kindly. Even in secular societies like Britain, people like Maajid Nawaz gets ripped apart by other Islamic clerics.
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    (Original post by orderofthelotus)
    Welcome to the dark side, I left around 2 years ago over concerns about women's rights. My main problem was the idea of menstruation being impure and all that nonsense at the time, but since then, I've read up on stuff more and found other things, many of which you've listed that I wasn't pleased with.
    I joined the dark side when I was 13, and some of my Muslim mates preaching about separation of genders, no sex before marriage etc, Then I caught one of them in the act in a cupboard in the Mosque.
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    (Original post by Osiris Wintereisse)
    I also had a general question I wanted to ask. Do you guys who are ex Muslims feel that reform is genuinely possible within Islam - if so how? I see Islam's history and reformers have not been dealt with kindly. Even in secular societies like Britain, people like Maajid Nawaz gets ripped apart by other Islamic clerics.
    I don't believe reform is possible within the next couple of decades. I hope the more exposed the Muslim youth are to education, critical thinking etc the more likely they will be to hold moderate beliefs or more western opinions.
 
 
 
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