Corbynistas will never manage to change politics as radically as Brexiteers Watch

JMR2019.
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Pleasantri)
Labour won a landslide of 400+ seats under Tony Blair, it went down under Gordon Brown, but Jeremy Corbyn has maintained his second rate place with 262 seats. It's laughable really what our opposition have come to.
It is laughable what the arrogance of the Conservatives has come to. They had a majority and they lost it, after expecting to win around 400+ seats. How you can even run such a rubbish campaign is beyond me...
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ByEeek
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#22
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(Original post by Pleasantri)
'I almost feel sorry for all those fired-up, Corbyn-cheering Glasto radicals, because no matter how hard they try, no matter how many anti-Tory memes they share or Corbyn-as-Che-Guevara t-shirts they buy, they will never, ever do anything as radical as the thing us Brexiteers did last June.'

This was from Brendan O'Neill, editor of Spiked. Do you agree?
All brexiters voted for was to leave Europe.I guarantee that either such radicalism will be a disaster for the country or won't be particularly radical by the time we actually come to leave, if, in fact we even do leave.
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Dot.Cotton
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#23
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No matter how smug they are at the moment, the Labour party is never getting back into power again. If they couldn't win the election with a p*ss poor campaign from the Tories, the youth vote rising, and UKIP not standing everywhere then they have no chance.
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Pleasantri
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#24
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#24
(Original post by JMR2017)
It is laughable what the arrogance of the Conservatives has come to. They had a majority and they lost it, after expecting to win around 400+ seats. How you can even run such a rubbish campaign is beyond me...
I'm angry at how Theresa May took the electorate for granted (and saw the results of doing so via the ballot box), I don't shy away from that. To herald this election though as a Corbyn victory is frankly ludicrous.
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JessThomas6
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I completely agree - look at his number of seats compared to other labour parties in the past - similar to Brown in 2010, when Brown stepped down. Similar to Kinnock in 1992. Almost identical to Callaghan in 1979.
Vota share can almost be discounted as an irrelevance - people were fed up with fringe parties. This is evident in the loss of the vote share from every other political party - SNP, LD, UKIP - all lost the 15 or so percentage points that went to the Tories and Labour - a Labour leader becoming more popular and then conservatives forming a minority government isn't anything massively new. Brexit was something not seen before in British politics - rejecting everything that has been known for the last 30 years. Corbyn can hardly say he has done that - he increased the vote share from an awful campaign in 2015 to levels that have been seen before - when Labour leaders conceded defeat and stepped down - yes the increase between 2015 and 2017 is large - but so was the increase in vote share seen by the Tories.
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Davij038
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#26
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They will do if the Tories don't shape up.
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anarchism101
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#27
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(Original post by Pleasantri)
'I almost feel sorry for all those fired-up, Corbyn-cheering Glasto radicals, because no matter how hard they try, no matter how many anti-Tory memes they share or Corbyn-as-Che-Guevara t-shirts they buy, they will never, ever do anything as radical as the thing us Brexiteers did last June.'

This was from Brendan O'Neill, editor of Spiked. Do you agree?
Link? I googled the quote, and couldn't find the original source?

Also, would point out that as Brexit hasn't happened yet, we've no idea how radical it's going to be. Unless O'Neill simply believes that winning a referendum is the most radical thing possible - in which case someone should probably let him know that there'd been other referendums in Britain before 2016.

Also, until they formally renounce it and apologise, Spiked and O'Neill are still a bunch of genocide-denying apologist scumbags.
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te159311
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Pleasantri)
Labour won a landslide of 400+ seats under Tony Blair, it went down under Gordon Brown, but Jeremy Corbyn has maintained his second rate place with 262 seats. It's laughable really what our opposition have come to.
What he managed to do was pretty impressive, given the circumstances - I guarantee you expected a large conservative majority.
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RF_PineMarten
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#29
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(Original post by Dot.Cotton)
No matter how smug they are at the moment, the Labour party is never getting back into power again. If they couldn't win the election with a p*ss poor campaign from the Tories, the youth vote rising, and UKIP not standing everywhere then they have no chance.
The only reason the Conservatives managed to limp across the finish line only just in first place was because their lead in the polls was so high at the start, giving them plenty of breathing room.

I would spin that completely differently. If Labour manage to win 30 seats, significantly increase their share of the vote and end the Conservative majority in an election that was specifically timed by the Conservatives to destroy Labour as an electoral force, just imagine what they could do in the next election which will likely take place in different circumstances.
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Dot.Cotton
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#30
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(Original post by RF_PineMarten)
The only reason the Conservatives managed to limp across the finish line only just in first place was because their lead in the polls was so high at the start, giving them plenty of breathing room.

I would spin that completely differently. If Labour manage to win 30 seats, significantly increase their share of the vote and end the Conservative majority in an election that was specifically timed by the Conservatives to destroy Labour as an electoral force, just imagine what they could do in the next election which will likely take place in different circumstances.
We also need to consider UKIP. It's looking more and more likely that Farage will be back as our leader (thank goodness) and so all those Kippers who voted Labour due to lack of options will be returning. Nice try leftie, but your party is done.
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The Asian Tory
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#31
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(Original post by JMR2017)
It is laughable what the arrogance of the Conservatives has come to. They had a majority and they lost it, after expecting to win around 400+ seats. How you can even run such a rubbish campaign is beyond me...
It has nothing to do with arrogance nor the fact that we are conservatives. We are merely eluding to the fact that Corbyn offered the worlds to the electorate with basket cases of economic/fiscal policies yet he managed to get a worse seat count that Gordon Brown (whom lost after a Financial crisis) and lost to Theresa May whom held a disastrous campaign and manifesto. Another way to put it, the electorate had more trust in Gordon Brown (the architect of Labour's current peril with respect to fiscal and economic credibility) than Jeremy Corbyn. You Corbynistas say that you've "won" the election however, in every measure, be it in vote count, seat count and the operating government, you have lost by a significant margin. It is true that we did not do as well as the polls predicted but that doesn't change the fact that your party lost the election hence the seat differences between the two main parties.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan — 'You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.'
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RF_PineMarten
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#32
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(Original post by Dot.Cotton)
We also need to consider UKIP. It's looking more and more likely that Farage will be back as our leader (thank goodness) and so all those Kippers who voted Labour due to lack of options will be returning. Nice try leftie, but your party is done.
Vote share goes from 30% to 40%, increases number of seats for the first time in 20 years.

Labour party is supposedly "done".

Ok then.
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The Asian Tory
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#33
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(Original post by RF_PineMarten)
Vote share goes from 30% to 40%, increases number of seats for the first time in 20 years.

Labour party is supposedly "done".

Ok then.
The Tory's vote has increased in every national election since 1997 -_-. I don't understand your point. Your vote change increased in the 2015 GE so half of your answer is false.
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RF_PineMarten
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#34
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(Original post by The Asian Tory)
The Tory's vote has increased in every national election since 1997 -_-. I don't understand your point. Your vote change increased in the 2015 GE so half of your answer is false.
Labour's number of seats increased in 2017, the first time this has happened in 20 years.

Labour's vote share increased in 2015, but I never said that 2017 was the first time Labour increased their vote share in 20 years (because of course it increased in 2015), just that it was the first time they actually gained seats in that time period. Perhaps I could have made that clearer.

I brought up vote share because it is noteworthy how big their increased vote share was in this recent election. They increased it by something like 1 percentage point in 2015, this time it was 10.
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JMR2019.
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#35
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(Original post by The Asian Tory)
It has nothing to do with arrogance nor the fact that we are conservatives. We are merely eluding to the fact that Corbyn offered the worlds to the electorate with basket cases of economic/fiscal policies yet he managed to get a worse seat count that Gordon Brown (whom lost after a Financial crisis) and lost to Theresa May whom held a disastrous campaign and manifesto. Another way to put it, the electorate had more trust in Gordon Brown (the architect of Labour's current peril with respect to fiscal and economic credibility) than Jeremy Corbyn. You Corbynistas say that you've "won" the election however, in every measure, be it in vote count, seat count and the operating government, you have lost by a significant margin. It is true that we did not do as well as the polls predicted but that doesn't change the fact that your party lost the election hence the seat differences between the two main parties.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan — 'You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.'
You can't really compare two completely different political climates like they were only separated by a day. You also need to compare the context of the election. Theresa May called this election mostly because of her desire for a landslide majority. The fact that she lost her existing majority is a clear failure. The fact that Jeremy Corbyn increased the Labour party's vote share by the greatest amount since 1945 can be seen as a success. It is all about context and expectations.
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The Asian Tory
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#36
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(Original post by JMR2017)
You can't really compare two completely different political climates like they were only separated by a day. You also need to compare the context of the election. Theresa May called this election mostly because of her desire for a landslide majority. The fact that she lost her existing majority is a clear failure. The fact that Jeremy Corbyn increased the Labour party's vote share by the greatest amount since 1945 can be seen as a success. It is all about context and expectations.
You miss the whole point! He still lost the election. She held a disastrous campaign, unable to answer voters questions, her cabinet including Philip Hammond did not have any TV time to make the economic case and she had an awful manifesto. In contrast to Jeremy Corbyn whom had a "free lunch" manifesto and he had his shadow cabinet on TV time throughout the election. You talk about expectations and context yet the left (including yourself) choose to do not use it in any economic standpoint as you all know you've lost it.
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The Asian Tory
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(Original post by RF_PineMarten)
Labour's number of seats increased in 2017, the first time this has happened in 20 years.

Labour's vote share increased in 2015, but I never said that 2017 was the first time Labour increased their vote share in 20 years (because of course it increased in 2015), just that it was the first time they actually gained seats in that time period. Perhaps I could have made that clearer.

I brought up vote share because it is noteworthy how big their increased vote share was in this recent election. They increased it by something like 1 percentage point in 2015, this time it was 10.
The vote on the Labour side was not an endorsement of Corbyn's policies but a tactical vote against the Tory's. People forget that the whole concept of tactical voting was put in place such as the: https://www.tactical2017.com/
website.
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JessThomas6
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#38
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(Original post by RF_PineMarten)
Vote share goes from 30% to 40%, increases number of seats for the first time in 20 years.

Labour party is supposedly "done".

Ok then.
"Increases the number of seats for the first time in 20 years"
Um, no. Blair increased seats in 1997 - by 145. Corbyn got a similar number of seats to Brown in 2010 when Brown resigned. You can't spin this as a win. Everything that Corbyn has done (aside from vote share - which increased for both major parties due to the lack of support for fringe parties - likely due to Brexit etc.) has been seen before. In elections where Labour took it as a massive loss and the leader resigned.
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anarchism101
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#39
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(Original post by The Asian Tory)
yet he managed to get a worse seat count that Gordon Brown
No, he didn't. Corbyn got more seats than Brown did in 2010.

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JessThomas6
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#40
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(Original post by anarchism101)
No, he didn't. Corbyn got more seats than Brown did in 2010.

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4 seats. They could have been the four seats where he won by 2 or 3 seats - 3 people coming out to vote for the Tories would have taken those seats. It's impossible to spin this into a landslide victory.
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